So the suspension on my 87 has been crap since I bought it. I finally had the money after tax return to buy eibach springs and some KYB struts. I torn into the front today and turns out that on top of just being worn out in general it appears that the poly bushings I put on have been cut into by their mounts on the front lower A arms. The offending bracket is the rear on on those A arms and it appears its the front portion of the rear bracket (yeah I know I'm confusing myself) It looks like the metal is too short and the bushing itself overhangs leading to its being cut into. It actually cut into the one on the drivers side enough to have about 1/16-1/8'' slop and clearly not be aligned (explaining why things have been so bad the past few months) and looks like the one on the other side is wearing as well.

Has anyone else encountered this? Anyone have any ideas what I can do to prevent it for occurring again? Is it likely that the bad shocks (possibly springs) may have contributed to this and that by replacing them with new units I will not see this kind of wear again?

PS- as a side note. What can I do to prevent my hardware from always rusting so badly it needs to be replaced every two years?

Bump.

Bump.

And, I am buying a new poly bushing set for the front and rear A arms.

On another note could someone walk me through putting together the rear shocks. The one piece of paper the shocks came with is like pictionary in another language. I imagine its fairly straightforward but would like to be made aware of anything thats critical.

For instance the KYB shocks show some kind of large what looks like rubber washer or metal spacer or something thats supposed to go on. But it didnt come with this. Is that something that I pull off the old ones?

Someone has to know something.

My bushings are getting here soon and I would like to know a few things.

Originally when I installed the rear bushings they were too big so I cut them down.
Similar to the method outlined here: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/094633.html
At the time I remember asking and everyone said the prothane caps just come too big. The problem is with them on the car after two years I have terrible bump steer and I can easily observe a gap between the cap and the A arm. So when the new ones get here should I cut them down again or what? Was the bump steer just my shocks were really that bad?

I would really appreciate some input.

Have done struts on other cars and imagine that the rear struts are about the same.
1. Get a spring compressor from a parts store (Auto Zone "rents" for free)
2. Compress the spring and remove the large nut on top
3. Remove the upper shock plate, isolation mount (rubber washer), spring, and lower isolation mount.
4. Place lower iso mount on new strut, then spring, then isolation mount, then upper plate, then large nut.
5.After retorque of the upper retaining nut, relieve spring pressure and you're done

Note, one side at a time, make sure the isolation washer go back in oriented the same as they came out, use a ratchet, not a n impact on the compressor.

Good luck

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

I will be doing this tomorrow. The bushings arrived. Anyone know anything about having to trim the rear control arm bushings? Has anyone else that has done this had problems? Anyone happen to know the correct amount to trim them?

Did you put the sleeve inside the bushings & tighten them down well? "Cause it sounds like you didn't have them tight enough if there is a gap between the bushings & the brackets. Or perhaps you didn't grease them enough - you need a LOT more grease than comes with them.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Custom Fiberglass Parts

I greased the crap out of them. Only recently the fronts started to squeak. Torqued to spec with a torque wrench. Admittedly it is possible that I should have checked the torque on them more frequently...

Wonder if thats the problem. How often should they be checked?

Thanks for the reply.

I got the fronts back together new springs, shocks, and bushings. I have the back struts built up but it rained hard all day today so I didn't have a chance to do the back.

I have a sway bar, I am going to measure it, came off an 85 GT. If it is the appropriate size should I?
A) install then get it aligned.
B)Get it aligned and then install

Also if I am not mistaken the 84's had a sway bar of the desired size, if the 85's is too big would it hurt the 84 to put the stiffer swaybar on its front so that I can use the thinner one on the back of my 87?

Also on another note. I have super cheap wheels. I got a set of 5 for 35$. I did this because I was broke and needed 17'' rims to fit the brakes. Problem is the fronts rub a little. I would like to rectify this. What is the recommended minimum sidewall height, and how will it affect handing? Is there a recommended ratio of front to back sidewall height and tire width? I dont mind having the front and back staggered.

PS- The manual states that the control arms bolts should be torqued with the car on the ground. How in blazes am I supposed to do that? I would barely pass the coke can test.

[This message has been edited by Dizzixx (edited 06-19-2011).]

To torque the bushing bolts at ride height, simply support the suspension arms on jack stands with the wheels off.

You should not have to trim any of the bushings to get them to fit. They are supposed to be a tight fit. With that said, you could chamfer the edge to help get them started into the mounting pocket.

See thats what I want to believe but why then is it that so many people have trimmed their bushing caps? Suppose we will see when I do the rears.

They are very tight. They have to be to prevent slop in the suspension.
Are your bushings longer than the center sleeve for the bolt?
Does the bolt sleeve fit into the A-arm mounting pocket?
Can you open the pocket up a bit (The bolt will pull it back into position)?
Can you assmble the bushing/sleeve/A-arm and compress them in a vise to the length of the bolt sleeve prior to installation?

quote Originally posted by Dizzixx: PS- The manual states that the control arms bolts should be torqued with the car on the ground. How in blazes am I supposed to do that? I would barely pass the coke can test.

quote Originally posted by olejoedad: To torque the bushing bolts at ride height, simply support the suspension arms on jack stands with the wheels off.

Not necessary with polyurethane control arm bushings! Tightening the control arm pivots while the suspension is at ride height only applies to torsion bushings such as OEM and OEM-like replacement rubber bushings.

I have a vice but no press. I may try that. I used clamps to compress the fronts to size and they were still very difficult to get in. I dont know that I would be able to open the pocket on the rear they way they are boxed in.

I will have to fit the bushings and sleeves together outside the A-arm and see if it looks like its possible for them to fit.

Dguy - good to know on the torque. Glad I did that right the first time.

Well I got them all installed. Just finished. 11pm. The one thing left before tires and alignment is to torque them down. There is still a minimal gap on the rear portion of the rear control arm I am hoping that will resolve itself when I torque it down.

Things went a great deal smoother this time and I did not have to trim anything. Not sure why that is the case but it is. When torquing them down I was wondering if it would be advised to over torque some then break it loose then back off and torque to spec. The bolts were somewhat corroded. I hit them with a thread file but they are still rough enough that I worry it might pop the torque wrench prematurely.

Also I would still like to know if I should do the swaybar before or after alignment. I am thinking after alignment as this would ensure it all sits in the right place.

The sway bar does not affect alignment - you can do it any time.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Custom Fiberglass Parts

Great.

The last thing should then be tires. I will post later the sizes I was thinking. Primarily based on the issues I had with the fronts of the last set. I went 1'' lower on the springs though and am somewhat worried that could further cause problems; the problem area was the bottom front outside corner of each wheel well though so I am not sure that it will have an affect.

Anyone know the recommended minimum sidewall height for 17'' wheels? For the best all around handling i would like to try autocross and track days.

quote Originally posted by Dizzixx: I greased the crap out of them. Only recently the fronts started to squeak. Torqued to spec with a torque wrench. Admittedly it is possible that I should have checked the torque on them more frequently... Wonder if thats the problem. How often should they be checked?

One thing to note is that you should not torque down the bushing bolts with the suspension hanging - use a jack and lift the car from the suspension, once the weight of the car is on the spring, then go ahead and torque them.

I thought we settled that and it was decided that was only for the rubber bushings and not the poly ones.

ARRRGGGGG!!!!!!!

I torqued everything down. To spec. With a brand new torque wrench. (Brand new as in I bought it today: BTW I checked it against my old one and they agree so I am going to assume its good) Everything was going great. On literally the last bolt (isn't it always?) I was torquing down the strut top bolt with an appropriately sized box wrench and allen bolt using the same torque wrench I used on the drivers side and the passenger side stud cracked and looked mangled like a shear/compression failure in the allen hole. Arrggg what a pain in the ass!

I am going to contact KYB but I am seriously upset.

torquing while in "ride position" only applies to the stock style bushings.
Most manuals will tell you to put the car at ride height before torquing, but they assume you are replacing them with stock / stock style replacements.

After you get the car aligned, drive it 100 miles and re-torque the bolts. Then drive for an additional 500 miles and re-torque. After about another 1500 miles check the torque. After another 3000 miles or so, check it again.
Sounds like your bolts may be loosening up. Are they new or at least the locking nuts new?

-Dave

All the hardware was replaced 2 years ago when I redid everything. This is the first time they have been off since. I also checked the torque on the top control arms of the front. The drivers side was a little off but not much the pass side was still to spec. They are not locking, I took the old ones to the nutt and bolt supply store and asked for the same thing but new.

You need the locking nuts if you can find them. This is, after all, suspension we're talking about. If you can't find them, at least use grade 8 nuts & bolts (EDIT: grade 10.5 for metric bolts) & a flat AND lock washer on the nut side.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Custom Fiberglass Parts

[This message has been edited by Tha Driver (edited 06-22-2011).]

They are at least 8 if not above. I know that for sure. I will need to find locking washers or nuts. I guess I have something to do before KYB sends a new strut (keeping my fingers crossed.)

Just to reiterate, YOU DO NOT NEED TO PRELOAD THE SUSPENSION WITH URETHANE BUSHINGS. Sorry, had to get that off my chest.

Anyway, yes you need lock-nuts on the suspension bolts. Standard nuts can work loose over time.

As for tire sizes, you can use a tire size calculator to find a 17" size that will be close to the stock wheel diameter. That should hopefully solve the rubbing issue. Just out of curiosity, what size are your existing tires? And what is the size and offset of the wheels?

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 06-22-2011).]

Well you see thats what makes this all interesting. The rims i used to know what they were, I tried looking it up and though I had it at one point. I think they are 30 or 40mm offset. When I bought them I made the guy let me jack up my 84 take the front tire off put one of those on and turn it lock to lock. It fit. Problem was they were flat and I was in too much of a hurry to think that would make a difference. I am lucky they only rub as much as they do, but 35$ for 5 I really cant complain either way. I would like to replace the rims but thats probably a year out at the soonest looking at the budget.

The current tires are 235/45/17. I was thinking of going with a smaller aspect ratio on the fronts and a much larger one on the back. Or possibly something a little narrower on front as well. I would like to do 245s on the rear but read that is ill advised for a 7inch rim.

In another thread someone suggests
Front: 215/45R17
Rear: 235/45R17

But I have always disliked the way that the rears dont fill the wheel well properly. That and its my understanding that more sidewall with a properly tuned suspension leads to less body roll and more contact patch on the ground. I was thinking I might want to go
Front: 225/35
Rear: 235/55

Any thoughts on this. Thats 2 inches of stagger front to back. I am worried it might be a bit excessive. Also with the 1'' drop from the springs I am worried that the 1'' increase on the rears will create a problem. Maybe 235/50 in back or even stick with the 235/45 thats still an inch difference between the two. I think I should be safe with the 225/35 on the front, thats a decrease of almost half an inch on the width and an 1'' on the sidewall. If its a good idea I could go to a 215/35 on front. It makes little difference to the way if fills the space its just narrower.


As far as tires go I have read alot of people recommend The Goodyear Eagle GTs. I have had them before and liked them but that was on the 84 and I doubt I ever pushed the tires. They were silent which was nice but crap in the snow. Also I had read the Eagles dont take mileage well. I have falkens at the moment they had plenty of grip in all conditions but were loud as all get out and also wore out quick. I dont do burnouts but I do drive hard. Any suggestions?

The 215/45 and 225/45 sizes are popular for 17" wheels on Fieros. Either of the two should be good for front tires.

I used tall & wide tires on the back of my Fiero once, and hated it. It felt like the rear end was sitting on a waterbed. But, to each his own.

Personally, I'd go with 215/45 or 225/45 all around, or 215/45 front and 235/45 rear.

Another thing to consider is that if you rake the car too much (low front end and high rear end) the nose is going to dig into the ground. This is exacerbated by a lowered suspension.

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 06-22-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Dizzixx: They are at least 8 if not above. I know that for sure. I will need to find locking washers or nuts. I guess I have something to do before KYB sends a new strut (keeping my fingers crossed.)

I just edited that. It's grade 10.5 for metric bolts. Designations are different for metrics.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Custom Fiberglass Parts

The correct locking nut is an all metal locking nut. It is a metal nut that has been "squeezed to out of round" on one end of the threads.

Do not use "Ny-Lock" or Nylon locking nuts. I would consider these as last resort.

I would use a jamb-nut system before I would use them.

-Dave

I do not know if anyone has mentioned it yet but you are not suppose to tighten suspension parts while the car is up in the air because when you put it back down , you will load those bushings and they will go bad again very fast.

Thats for the rubber bushings. Or so I hear.

quote Originally posted by Chris Hodson: I do not know if anyone has mentioned it yet but you are not suppose to tighten suspension parts while the car is up in the air because when you put it back down , you will load those bushings and they will go bad again very fast.

Wow! Nobody reads anymore, they just type...

[This message has been edited by 1fatcat (edited 06-22-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Chris Hodson: I do not know if anyone has mentioned it yet but you are not suppose to tighten suspension parts while the car is up in the air because when you put it back down , you will load those bushings and they will go bad again very fast.

I think that was meant as a running gag... at least by now it is.

-Dave

At this point I certainly wont forget at least

i run the goodyear eagle GT's on my wifes car.. we have about 5000 miles on them so far and they are a great tire.. btw her car is a 2005 toyota matrix xrs and the tires are 215/50r17

------------------
--Mark--
87 GT soon to be 3400 SFI OBD2

[This message has been edited by 86 toy (edited 06-22-2011).]

Make sure to pre-load the suspension before tightenting....

Kidding. I couldn't resist. You don't need to do this with poly bushings. They are free floating on both the inner and outer sleeves so it makes no difference. Hows that car of yours running Dizz?

I have Bf Goodrich tires on my Civic. They have lasted a long time. I am happy with them.
My Wife's Caliber has them. She likes them. I don't drive it much (well, right now I have been since she is deployed), but I would say they grip as well.

My Mother's car (VW Passat) had Continental DWS tires... They were less than adequate. About 17,000 miles on them before they HAD to be replaced. The tire wore uneven as hell. One side looked new, the other (opposite side of tire) looked bald. The balance and alignment was right. The next set she put on were Bf Goodrich. They are still on the car after 30,000+ miles.

I have heard good things about Goodyear, but never drove on a pair.

-Dave

Thanks for the input guys.

+1 for goodyear
+1 for goodrich
-1 for Contiental

Fieroseverywhere - The 4.9 is running strong. Actually I replaced one of the trans brackets just recently, holy crap what a difference that made. Sadly the same day I got a flat tire.... As a result I decided to put on the suspension that has been taking up space for a month in the front room. Even taking a light summer load classwork manages to get in the way of the stuff I want to do

Hopefully though with the suspension sorted I will have a truly modern car (in all the important ways, without all the extra crap I dont care for)

I bought the BF goodrich supersport A/S. I decided I wanted to try something new rather than go with the eagles. They are supposed to be right between the Goodyear and the DWS in terms of year round performance. Hopefully I will have time to align it on Tuesday or wendsday.

I replaced all the control arm hardware with new bolts and locking nuts. (BTW totally a PITA if you are doing it without actually wanting to remove the control arms) As well as replaced all the ball joint grease fittings including those on steering and tie rods and greased them with a grease gun.

I am pretty excited to get it on the road. I found out the wheels I have are 40mm offset on the back and something like 30ish on the front. I ended up buying 215/45 front and 235/45 back. I think just slightly smaller in front would have been better but it came down to cost and availability. Lock to lock the fronts rub a tiny bit on one side. I am hoping that alignment will help solve this.