**EDIT June 21st**
Have decided to go with the automatic 4t65e-hd trans instead


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I really want to install a turbo on my 3800 and not use the M90 blower. What do the guys with getrags and turbo's do to mount on their 3800's?

Do I keep my stock manifolds and get a x-over made with the turbo or what am I needing to do here? The car is an 87gt with the same year getrag 5spd. And I have a new l32 series 3 3800 with the L26 3800 intake installed on it and an L36 throttlebody.

Would love any pictures people might have.

[This message has been edited by Steel (edited 06-21-2011).]

Well, if you don't want to keep your trunk, you can mount the turbo right off the end of the stock 3800 exhaust system by cutting off the flange and welding on a new flange for the turbo. This would be the easiest way of doing things as you wouldn't have to worry about and shift cable routing.

If you want to keep the trunk, you could get a custom y-pipe fabbed up which would need to clear all the shift cables and fit somewhere on the left-hand side of the engine bay. You will also have to account for charge-pipe routing and/or intercooling solutions. It's not easy to package, but it can be done with some careful planning.

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'88 GT- 3800 Turbo 11.367@121.03mph
FOR SALE
GM Tuners

quote Originally posted by Steel: I really want to install a turbo on my 3800 and not use the M90 blower. What do the guys with getrags and turbo's do to mount on their 3800's? Do I keep my stock manifolds and get a x-over made with the turbo or what am I needing to do here? The car is an 87gt with the same year getrag 5spd. And I have a new l32 series 3 3800 with the L26 3800 intake installed on it and an L36 throttlebody. Would love any pictures people might have.

Sounds like we have the same engine setup. Which set of injector holes did you use? I'm using the ones in the heads, but I had to cut away at the l36 lim to use them. I tapped the injector bosses in the LIM for 1/4 push to connect hosing for direct port nitrous or water/methanol and currenly have 1/4 plugs in them.

Turbo thread in my sig

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Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.53@126.7

[This message has been edited by Justinbart (edited 04-27-2011).]

Make sure you support the weight of the turbo with some brackets (you may need to custom make), don't rely on the exhaust to support the weight of the turbo. It may work for a while, but eventually you'll crack or break your exhaust pipes/manifolds.

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OVERKILL IS UNDERRATED

Custom GM OBD1 & OBD2 Tuning | Engine Conversions & more | www.gmtuners.com

I have the turbo out right now so I can get a better pic of that 1st bracket. I'll post a pic of it tomorrow. I will say that this setup is rock-solid.

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'88 GT- 3800 Turbo 11.367@121.03mph
FOR SALE
GM Tuners

quote Originally posted by Darth Fiero: Make sure you support the weight of the turbo with some brackets (you may need to custom make), don't rely on the exhaust to support the weight of the turbo. It may work for a while, but eventually you'll crack or break your exhaust pipes/manifolds.

I had over 20k miles on mine and a 40lb turbo... No issues.

Justins turbo was almost 70lbs, and it only had a small crack in the bottom of the rear manifold after a year or 2.

quote Originally posted by Darth Fiero: Found some pictures of the support brackets I built for the Turbo I swapped into AkursedX's car. The bracket that supports the turbo to the rear cylinder head is hard to see in the 1st picture because it is obscured by the turbo oil feed line, but you can still see it (it is painted black and bolts to the bottom of the turbo mounting flange and to the cylinder head). -ryan

Thanks for the pics! This is what I'd like to accomplish I'd really like to keep my trunk, or at least the top half at the very least.

quote Originally posted by AkursedX: I have the turbo out right now so I can get a better pic of that 1st bracket. I'll post a pic of it tomorrow. I will say that this setup is rock-solid.

Thanks, I should have just bought your car.. now I've already rebuilt 90% of mine =[ at a much higher cost with no end in sight haha.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I had over 20k miles on mine and a 40lb turbo... No issues. Justins turbo was almost 70lbs, and it only had a small crack in the bottom of the rear manifold after a year or 2.

Relying on thin wall steel tubing (exhaust manifold) alone to support the weight of ANY turbo is asking for trouble. High exhaust temps (which you have when you are at full boost ) will glow your manifolds red and reduce the load/weight that thin wall steel tubing they are made out of can support. It isn't worth the risk of breaking something off and dragging your turbo down the road by the oil line when you can spend 1 hour (or maybe less) to add some supporting brackets. Steel is cheap and OE brackets are even cheaper at the junkyard. It's not like you're going to be adding 20 lbs of hardware; so I don't see why you are so reluctant to do the job at least half-ass right...

Next thing we know you'll be telling everyone to use stock N/A bottom ends with boost and...oh, that's right - your buddy Justin took your advice on that and ended up with a BROKEN connecting rod and trashed a perfectly good engine!

quote Originally posted by Darth Fiero: It's not like you're going to be adding 20 lbs of hardware; so I don't see why you are so reluctant to do the job at least half-ass right... Next thing we know you'll be telling everyone to use stock N/A bottom ends with boost and...oh, that's right - your buddy Justin took your advice on that and ended up with a BROKEN connecting rod and trashed a perfectly good engine!

Hahahahahaha....

"Now, me and the mad scientist got to rip apart the block... and replace the piston rings you fried. "

quote Originally posted by Darth Fiero: Next thing we know you'll be telling everyone to use stock N/A bottom ends with boost and...oh, that's right - your buddy Justin took your advice on that and ended up with a BROKEN connecting rod and trashed a perfectly good engine!

it was a good run!

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Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.53@126.7

Here's that pick of the engine-side turbo bracket.

quote Originally posted by Justinbart: it was a good run!

It was, and kudo's to you for getting what you did out of it!

Wonderful threads like this and the one where justin blew his block apart are what convinced me to buy an l32 shortblock and get my turbo mounted properly when that time comes.

Do you guys think this Turbo would work well?

http://www.buyimportperform..._70_A_R_p/S259-2.htm

If not please point me in the right direction~

quote Originally posted by Steel: Do you guys think this Turbo would work well? http://www.buyimportperform..._70_A_R_p/S259-2.htm If not please point me in the right direction~

think BIGGER!

You need to keep the lower intake and upper intake together as a matched set. So, f-body lower and upper have to be used together.

quote Wonderful threads like this and the one where justin blew his block apart are what convinced me to buy an l32 shortblock and get my turbo mounted properly when that time comes.

I'm glade I could help! I now have an L32 so we'll have to see what goes next!

Now I'm just battling a problem with breaking up in high boost. Nothing changed except for the bottom end and fuel pump. hmmm

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Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.53@126.7

yeah, if you're going to shell out that kind of money you can get two genuine used garrett turbos and rebuild them yourself or you could even get a good new large turbo.

quote Originally posted by Justinbart: I'm glade I could help! I now have an L32 so we'll have to see what goes next! Now I'm just battling a problem with breaking up in high boost. Nothing changed except for the bottom end and fuel pump. hmmm

That's weird. My vote goes to the fuel pump. :P

I'm eager to hear how it works out because you are way ahead of me on getting it installed / tested. All of my stuff is still sitting on my shop floor next to an engine stand.

Honestly that S259 would be a great turbo.

I am considering upgrading mine soon, if you REALLY want you can have my great condition PT6776

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: Honestly that S259 would be a great turbo. It will make enough power for most anyone that is new to the game. I am considering upgrading mine soon, if you REALLY want you can have my great condition PT6776

How much would you want for the PT67?

I am not sure, I have seen them float around for about $600 before.

Okay I got a new PT67 over on ClubGP for a really good price I couldn't pass it up. I bought two of the ZZPerformance stainless power logs one for the rear and for the front. I'm now switching to the 4T65E-HD transmission instead of trying to use the Fiero's getrag manual transmission. Hopefully this is a smart move~

What size crossover do I need to make or have made? I don't have any idea what size tubing to use or what gauge it should be, I was mainly hoping to emulate AkursedX's setup for the crossover if I can somehow. Any good sources for pre-bent stainless that will work for this? I plan to mock it up myself and just tack it in a few areas then take it to a pro welder to be finished off properly.

Also I'm not sure what to do for the air to air intercooler either. Anybody have any ideas there? I'm kind of lost on how one could even be mounted at all without chopping out the trunk and then I'm not sure it would really get any type of overflow through it? Or would I need to install a radiator fan on it with a temp switch or something?

Sounds like a good deal.

I would go to summit for stainless bits myself, then get the T4 flange of ebay.

Check out Darth Fiero's page. He has a nice A2A intercooler setup on his car.
I would also look into making sure you are getting clean cool air to the air filter.
I am running the IMSA quarter panels and have all the gaps sealed off, so I only get cool clean air from the side of the car.

I'm planning to put the air filter right where a the 1/4 scoop opening is. I never liked the hot air type of setups you sometimes see on cars not just on Fiero's. People put thee filter like right off the throttle body or the turbo and you know it has to get soaked with heat.

I need to figure out what size tubing to use for my crossover I'm waiting on ZZP to ship my power logs first.

Never been too concerned with getting "cold air" into the turbo. It just cranks it to 200*-300*F anyway. That's what intercoolers are for. More attention should be focused on inlet air restriction than anything else.

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Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.53@126.7

[This message has been edited by Justinbart (edited 05-24-2011).]

The problem with "cold air intakes" is the fact you are losing flow trying to tuck a tube somewhere in some random place that you can fit this tiny filter... when you could just slap a filter that will flow the amount of air you want with no restriction, (note most air filters are flow rated at xxx restriction).

The "cold air" you get from that cold air intake is only going to lower the temperature of the air going into your engine by 2-3 degrees, maybe... and due to the fact that a turbo works on mass flow, you will not gain or lose power based on the lower temperature intake air.

Okay I'm not really worried about the intake temps then.. I just took for granted cooler would be better. Seems like the Fiero engine bay is hot already so I'm worrying about cooking everything with the turbo in there now. I have other things to worry about though, like basically everything else the swap needs.. I don't know what to do with the axles, what IC to run or where to mount it even. Only pictures I've seen of turbo IC fiero's the IC is in place of the trunk or somehow shoved up under the car I can't really picture air flow there very well but I guess there aren't any other options short of like a huge side scoop or something?

I should probably make a build thread and get some pictures I'm going to need a lot more help than I originally was figuring that's for sure...

Justin and I love this intercooler, its probably a bit overkill for someone sub 500hp, but when we bought them, they were still only $130.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...fPartsQ5fAccessories

The smaller one is a lot cheaper, and I would probably just string 2 of those together if you can get them cheap enough, and or needed 2 of them.

My latest "drag ready" axles came out of a 02 caviler. They work fine.

The amount of airflow you get in this horribly un-areodynamic fiero is fairly significant, no air stays that warm for too long.

Oh I was thinking I'd be running an air to air. Do i need a separate pump and a reservoir for it then or how did you guys hook up your water part?

That's a pretty good price and it looks small enough to work i was picturing a big wide one liek that one ZZPeformance sells.

I bet you could fit a water to air intercooler in front of your engine, out of sight, between the gas tank and engine.

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Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.53@126.7

I'm hoping to run the 80# mototron injectors and E85, I'm not opposed to removing the bottom half of my trunk to mount the intercooler though.

quote Originally posted by Justinbart: Akursedx runs an Air to Air intercooler. The last time I talked to him he seemed to wish it did a better job. But this was mostly when he was running it hard at the track. You can always spray co2 on the A2A to bring the temps waaay down. So you have some options to think about. If you run E85 or race gas you wont need to worry about air temps as much.

My a/a intercooler is pretty much maxed out at race boost levels (18-19psi), but was a bit of a compromise. I only got a 3" thick core because clearance issues with the a/c lines. And if I had it mounted any lower, it would sit a bit below the cradle crossmember and therefore be much more susceptible to road debris. I'm pretty sure a 4" core could be installed it you didn't run an a/c compressor.

I have no concrete numbers on the efficiency of my ic setup as I don't have a pre and post intercooler temp sensor. It's a 26x7x3 core with puller fans on top and an airdam to force air into it. It does allow for ~13 psi on 93 octane and 18-19psi on 100 octane.

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'88 GT- 3800 Turbo 11.367@121.03mph
FOR SALE
GM Tuners