I just bought a 84' 2m4 with 113k miles 5 speed to convert to an electric car. After some more investigation I figured I would fix the Iron Duke and fix up the car a little while waiting on battery prices to come down.

Anyways, when I bought the car, the previous owner says that it ran till a shade tree mechanic worked on it. So I bought it and got it home, I looked it over. I found first off that one of the sensors off the front of the motor was re-wired kinda shottie(easy fix), then I start looking at the wires and the Distributor looks clean(may have been changed recently 2006), but the wires look a little chaulky, so I follow them around the front of the engine and find the #1 plug hanging there on the end of the wire. As I look closer I find that the plug had rusted in half at the bolt pattern. This will be a ton of fun to get out of the head. Easy out here I come, gonna be interesting to keep the metal out of the cylinder.

so I found ONE reason why it was being looked at by the shade tree mechanic, BUT the biggest thing was when i connected it to a battery to see if everything functioned with power, nothing came on. No power at all. The positive line seems to be connected to something physically, most likely the starter solenoid BUT being that the car is outside I can't get under it to investigate yet.
Any Ideas why the power wouldn't get from the battery to the ignition?

I DID connect the Positive to a small little positive lug on a solenoid, on the side wall of the engine bay just beside the battery box and then the dash lights came on but of course this isn't the correct way and it totally bypassed the engine ignition.

Why would the power not get through to the ignition, is there something common that happens? Fuseable link or something you guys may be aware of?

What's you opinion?

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84 Fiero 2M4 Silver, bought for electric conversion.

I'm not overly familiar with the 84s but I believe that there some fusible links at the starter that supply all power to the car.

kinda what im thinkin.

There are two fusible links down at the starter that distribute power to the car. Only 84's have them located down there and over the years I have had nothing but problems with their location. I moved them to the battery positive post, I bought a side terminal adapter that is used to connect audio amplifiers to side post batteries and extended the wires so they are not near the hot exhaust. Make sure you add a length of fusible wire to the new lengths.

quote Originally posted by TONY_C: There are two fusible links down at the starter that distribute power to the car. Only 84's have them located down there and over the years I have had nothing but problems with their location. I moved them to the battery positive post, I bought a side terminal adapter that is used to connect audio amplifiers to side post batteries and extended the wires so they are not near the hot exhaust. Make sure you add a length of fusible wire to the new lengths.

Good idea... My 83' Trans Am had them down there too. I'll have to fix it like you have

IF the spark plug was rusted that bad, you can be sure that the grounds are rusted too. Take them apart and clean and re-attach.

quote Originally posted by Gall757: IF the spark plug was rusted that bad, you can be sure that the grounds are rusted too. Take them apart and clean and re-attach.

I'll have to look at all that when I get it up on jack stands in the new shop. Should be next week or so.
The car doesn't seem to have too much rust in it. Even the battery box isn't bad, I guess cause we are in Georgia but the plugs and wires seem like they are POSSIBLY the original plugs or the second set and at 113k miles it started running rough and the shade tree mechanic messed something up. OR the trunk lid leaked water and it just sat in the plug hole of the head and rusted the plug apart. I only pray the other 3 aren't as rusted.

quote Originally posted by jwrape: I only pray the other 3 aren't as rusted.

It could be worst; you could have 6 spark plugs to deal with, 3 of which are next to impossible to repair w/ the motor/head in the car

[This message has been edited by ALJR (edited 04-08-2011).]

quote Originally posted by ALJR: It could be worst; you could have 6 spark plugs to deal with, 3 of which are next to impossible to repair w/ the motor/head in the car

I one day will. Eventually I will get the 86-88 GT and install the 3800 SC. I'm just startin' slow. I missed my old 85' SE from when I was a teen. Now I can actually afford to fix it up and make it what I wanted back then.

Hang around long enough for phonedawgz to get on here. Maybe acouple of hours

quote Originally posted by Gall757: Hang around long enough for phonedawgz to get on here. Maybe acouple of hours

Oh, ok.... I can do that. I'm at work doin' nothing anyways. You guys keep me entertained while I sit here.

Pack the tap with grease when you chase the plug holes, that will catch most everything.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: Pack the tap with grease when you chase the plug holes, that will catch most everything.

Good Point

quote Originally posted by jwrape: Does anyone know specifically what the symtoms would be if one or both of those links went bad. Reason being is I literally have nothing. Not even the lights on the dash, the starter won't click or turn over. The car literally accepts no power. Is that a symtom? Seems to me it would be but just checking with someone with more experience than me with Fuseable links. As I said, my only experience was a few VERY frustrating days with my 83 Trans Am. I was ready to pull my hair out with that POS. Come to think of it, I think it was a 84' Trans Am. I figure by asking you guys and going into it with some knowledge, I can fix it faster and move onto the next issue that it seeks attention for. :-)

Those links provide ALL power to the car

quote Originally posted by Phil: Those links provide ALL power to the car

Ok, that will be the first thing I get too then.
Next after power will be brakes. The darn thing will barely roll and has no brake fluid left in the rear end. It's a hot mess from sitting since 2006. :-)

quote Originally posted by jwrape: Does anyone know specifically what the symtoms would be if one or both of those links went bad. Reason being is I literally have nothing. Not even the lights on the dash, the starter won't click or turn over. The car literally accepts no power. Is that a symtom? Seems to me it would be but just checking with someone with more experience than me with Fuseable links. As I said, my only experience was a few VERY frustrating days with my 83 Trans Am. I was ready to pull my hair out with that POS. Come to think of it, I think it was a 84' Trans Am. I figure by asking you guys and going into it with some knowledge, I can fix it faster and move onto the next issue that it seeks attention for. :-)

Mine went bad like I mentioned in a previous post. They failed twice and then I re-routed them to the battery. The first time I chalked it up to the age of the wires but I really believe that it gets way too hot in that area. I've also had trouble with starter motors failing because of the heat from the exhaust. New wire doesn't like extreme heat, now factor in 27 year old wires and it's a recipe for disaster. Move them directly to the battery and be done with it.

quote Originally posted by TONY_C: Mine went bad like I mentioned in a previous post. They failed twice and then I re-routed them to the battery. The first time I chalked it up to the age of the wires but I really believe that it gets way too hot in that area. I've also had trouble with starter motors failing because of the heat from the exhaust. New wire doesn't like extreme heat, now factor in 27 year old wires and it's a recipe for disaster. Move them directly to the battery and be done with it.

Definately doing this simple mod to keep my sanity.
Thanks

quote Originally posted by Gall757: Hang around long enough for phonedawgz to get on here. Maybe a couple of hours

Sorry was flying back from Germany yesterday. I did a few posts in the airport however.

I'm not that familiar with the fusible links on the 84. I agree moving them to the battery makes sense. Seems odd that more than one would go at a time.

on a 84 2.5 you can reach the starter wiring from the top. stand on the drivers side, use your left arm. you should be able to feel the links if they are on the stud.

quote Originally posted by FFIEROFRED: on a 84 2.5 you can reach the starter wiring from the top. stand on the drivers side, use your left arm. you should be able to feel the links if they are on the stud.

Ok, I will be moving the car on Monday or Tuesday to my new house. I will take a look then.

quote Originally posted by FFIEROFRED: on a 84 2.5 you can reach the starter wiring from the top. stand on the drivers side, use your left arm. you should be able to feel the links if they are on the stud.

Yep, take off the air clenaner and lay on top the engine, easy access.

quote Originally posted by RWDPLZ: Yep, take off the air clenaner and lay on top the engine, easy access.

Oh that makes sense since that Air Filter is HUGE and covering most of the motor. I haven't taken anything apart yet since it's sitting in the yard.
I would hate to remove something and loose a bolt or nut and not be able to find it in the dirt. :-)

OOPS! Just looked at the title and saw that it is in fact a 86' model Fiero Sport.
Does the 86' still have the fuesable links in the same spot?

Nope. Passengers side inner fender near the battery - right under that huge mess of wires there. Remember that the studs are HOT unless you disconnect the battery so don't short them to ground. You should have +12v on both studs. The wire from the engine as you see bridges the two studs electrically (The are not bridged electrically inside the plastic thing).

There should be a pigtail from your postive battery cable that connects to this power distribution posts. That sounds like it is missing. That is what you need to add back in.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 04-16-2011).]

WOW, that's the exact place I hooked my Jumper cable to, to get the lights to work.
So somewhere in there are the fusable links I need to check/replace?

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz:

Wow that looks like one of those Lithium Polymer batteries that are super Deep Charge batts that are incredible for hard to start Bike etc... I heard they are around $400-$500 or so.

Edit: Let me change that, looks like they are a reasonable $134, but still a dry Polymer batter. Very good choice in batteries and should last for something like 10 years. The Harley and other bike guys are loving these for their power for half the size.

[This message has been edited by jwrape (edited 04-16-2011).]

Stock(ish) battery cable with pigtail visable. Not stock battery cable bolt however



The other battery was just a googled picture to show the cable. I run a standard battery in mine but I don't have a pic of it. It's easier to google up a pic than get the camera out. No this one isn't my battery either.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 04-16-2011).]

Oh yea, I know that part. What I did was originally connect my jumper box to the battery terminals and absolutely nothing happened. Then trying to trouble shoot I connected to the top bolt of the power distribution block to see if I could bypass the connection down at the starter. When I did, everything lit up and worked properly with the exception of the start. This made me think it is a bad Fuseable link.


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86 Fiero 2M4 Silver, bought for electric conversion. Currently just fixing all the old stuff

[This message has been edited by jwrape (edited 04-16-2011).]

I thought you had no power at all. If you have no power at all and there isn't a wire running from the positive battery cable to the power distribution post that is your problem. The stock positive battery cable had that little pigtail built into it.

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: I thought you had no power at all. If you have no power at all and there isn't a wire running from the positive battery cable to the power distribution post that is your problem. The stock positive battery cable had that little pigtail built into it.

Sorry, i think I'm not describing it well.
When i got the car, there was no battery in the battery holder. There is a positive and a negative cables. I took my Jumper box that has it's own clamps and clamped Negative to the negative cable and the Positive clamp to the Positive Cable as to jump off the car without a battery. I tried to turn the key and get it to spin over the motor. It had absolutely no response, nothing, not even a click.

Then i start looking around the engine compartment for another place to deliever the positive connection. Usually there is another place you can find on older cars to deliever the power. For instance on a Ford there is the solenoid on the firewall that you can connect to, to bypass the starter(or if need cross over the solenoid to start the motor).

So I looked around and found the power distribution connection (in your picture) and saw that it had a small Red Cable connected to it. So I figured it supplied 12v+ to something and I would try it. Since there was no other power in the car i figure it wouldn't cross anything or hurt anything, I connected my Jumper box 12v+ clamp to the power dist. box bolt at the top of your picture and the ground clamp to the engine block. Then went and turned the key and everything came on, like headlights, blinkers, and anything else electric. I tried to turn the key to the start position and it would not turn the starter over or click anything.
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86 Fiero 2M4 Silver, bought for electric conversion. Currently just fixing all the old stuff

[This message has been edited by jwrape (edited 04-16-2011).]

To crank the engine, you need the large +12 wire to the starter and then you apply 12v to the small terminal on the solenoid.

The way that terminal gets power is

From the +battery post
through that jumper to the power distribution posts (they should have +12v on them all the time)
Through fusible link A (Double wire to a single eyelet, the thicker wire) You can see fusible link A on some of the pictures. Fusible link A runs to the BODY harness not the engine harness
That sends power to the ignition switch.
The ignition switch applies power to the large yellow wire on it when the key is turned to START
The yellow wire connects to the neutral switch.
The other end of the neutral switch is a purple wire. That wire connects to the small terminal of the solenoid.

If you take a small jumper wire and jump from the large terminal of the starter to the small one of the solenoid the engine will crank. Use a large size wire and expect a spark. Remember that will crank the engine so if you have a manual transmission and the car is in gear, it will move the car also.

Ok, that's exactly what I need to hear. That's what I will do to troubleshoot it.
I plan to get the car from my old house to my new house shop today. I will start looking at it probably in the next couple days cause it's killing me not to know. :-)
Thank you for your help. That was helpful

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86 Fiero 2M4 Silver, bought for electric conversion. Currently just fixing all the old stuff