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Idle jumps up and down between 900-1500 by LennieM
Started on: 10-06-2010 05:13 PM
Replies: 5
Last post by: jetman on 10-06-2010 08:10 PM
LennieM
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Report this Post10-06-2010 05:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LennieMSend a Private Message to LennieMDirect Link to This Post
Hi!
I have a problem with my 2.8l fiero the idle is really bad jumps up and down from 900-1500.
I have replaced the egr-tube with a new one but that did not help.
I also have replaced some bad vaccum hoses but same result.
I just put in a order at the fierostore, a new IAC valve and Throttle position sensor.
Will that help me or do you have any other solutions i should try meanwhile? (live in sweden so my order will take a week to arrive)
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phonedawgz
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Report this Post10-06-2010 05:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageSend a Private Message to phonedawgzDirect Link to This Post
Add an engine to frame ground or two.

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/043240.html

If your engine is idling down to 900 at sometime, you don't have a vacuum leak.

The 80's ECM will run the idle high when the CTS sensor reads the engine is cold.

Try the grounds and see what you find. Fiero ECM's aren't totally stable with their idle speed, but for sure yours is beyond what it should be. You should be able to get it to no more than 200 rpm swings.

There is an upgrade to a later model ECM that can get the idle speed rock steady. It means rewiring the engine harness (not for a beginner)

Where in Sweden? You should post a pic of you and your Fiero!

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 10-06-2010).]

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phonedawgz
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Report this Post10-06-2010 05:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageSend a Private Message to phonedawgzDirect Link to This Post

phonedawgz

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Here is a check for the TPS. Unplug the TPS wiring connector. Slip a paperclip up the back side of the middle pin. Make sure this paperclip doesn't short out while the key is on or it can damage the TPS and/or the ECM. Then reconnect the connector. Now take a meter set to voltage and put the positive lead on the paperclip and the negative on the engine ground. Turn the key on and observe the voltage. The voltage should start at about 0.6 v with the throttle closed. Slowly open the throttle and note the voltage. The voltage should increase smoothly to above 4v with no dropouts. If the voltage jumps at times, or drops out your TPS is bad. The TPS has some movement in it's mounting screws for some adjustment. The throttle cam/TPS lever can also be adjusted. You should adjust your TPS so you have less than 1v with the throttle at rest. 0.7 is a good number to shoot for when adjusting it.
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kalel14
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Report this Post10-06-2010 06:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kalel14Send a Private Message to kalel14Direct Link to This Post
I've got a similar problem in my 2.8 86 GT. I roll up to a stop light and the engine stays at 1200-1500 rpm, shifted into neutral (manual trans). Then a few seconds later, it bumps down to 1100, then about 950 and sits there. On rare occassions it bounces back to 1200 then back down to 950. I only get an SES light in the infrequent instances that it stays above 1250 (or so) for whatever number of seconds it takes to trip the "High Idle" trouble code.

Based on previous posts, I've discounted vacuum leaks. Someone told me a 195 degree thermostat would help the problem, as the engine wasn't warm enough with a 180 version. Sounds bogus, but I've stopped underestimating the quirky-ness of the Fiero's engine management. Could this be true?

I tried experimenting with a jumper cable grounding the engine to the frame and it didn't drop the idle. Was that experiment invalid?

I assume if I hook my scanner up to the engine I can read the values and do the same TPS test listed above without resorting to the "paperclip" method, right?

Other than this idle issue, the car has no problems so I'd love to solve it. Thanks!
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phonedawgz
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Report this Post10-06-2010 07:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageSend a Private Message to phonedawgzDirect Link to This Post
The dropping in rpm is common.

The problem I see is when the RPM's stay high. Either a vacuum leak or a sticking throttle is doing it. My vote is sticking throttle not closing all the way. Yep until it idles high for long enough the ECM dosen't throw the code.

If the CTS (NOT the gauge sender) reads that the engine is cold it will keep the RPM's up and the mixture richer. A hotter thermostat will get you better mileage.

No your jumper cable isn't really a good test. You should add 1 or 2 battery sized cables from the engine to the frame and call it good. You can buy ground cables at the parts store. The reason for more than one is in case you get rust or corrosion. Make sure you have good metal to metal contact. The problem with bad grounding engine to frame is that the electrical draw of the car's body mounted accessories will cause a change in the ground potential between the engine and ECM. The ECM will then adjust the engine as to what it percieves as changed voltages on the engine sensors. If you engine idle or gauges vairies with your fan or turn signals your ground is not doing it's job properly. Bad grounding causes a bouncing idle mostly, not a high idle.

Correct - Scanner. Move the throttle slowly since the scanner doesn't respond that quickly. Using the volt meter is a better test since the response is quicker. A smooth increase in voltage with no drop outs.

Starting with a cold engine look at the MAT aka the IAT for intake air temp. Look at the CTS temp and make sure that it looks correct as the engine warms.

While you have your scanner attached verify the MAP sensor is looking like it should.

Your scanner should be able to tell you if the throttle is hanging up slightly at times when you get the fast idle.

Finally try reading the voltages of either the MAP or TPS using the two outside pins. You should get 5V doing it. Then move the black to the engine ground and see if it varies much. Rev the engine, turn on the flashers and make sure the sensor voltages aren't following the body's electrical load.

Most ECM sensors use a seperate ground lead to try to prevent the ground differences in causing trouble. The O2 sensor however uses a single lead and engine ground for return. The engine is using the O2 sensor to determine fuel air mix whenever the engine is in closed loop mode.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 10-06-2010).]

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jetman
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Report this Post10-06-2010 08:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jetmanClick Here to visit jetman's HomePageSend a Private Message to jetmanDirect Link to This Post
Welcome to the forum.

Learn how to pull the engine trouble codes, its easy, here's the forum link,

https://www.fiero.nl/cgi-bin/main.cgi?ECMCodes

Double check your battery and battery connections, ground wires and the main feed from the alternator up to your main power junction up to your battery. Many wierd idle issues are attributable to poor electrical connections. Don't just look at them, pull them and clean them up. Your ECM and sensors depend on good power to operate properly, everything is a moot point unless your electrical is up to the job.

Welcome to the madness.

------------------
jetman
Silver 86 SE 2M6 4-speed, with
"check wallet light"
Now fortified with 8 essential slices of bacon goodness

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