Yep I messed up. I rebuilt my Duke last year and now that spring is here I am having tranny problems likely due to not putting er back quite right. Here's the story...Daily driver duke: last fall complete overhaul..nice, fine driving all winter but clutch pedal seeming to need to be pushed a little further....subtle thing. I was thinking all along "I'll have to take a look at that" but things always seemed to come up. Anyway, some Ford PU on my tail when I wasnt in as big a hurry as he. So at the light I figure I will zing outta sight but noooooo.... Something goes quite wrong and the transmission seems not to be releasing. It can run but not release. I am able to make it to work with my tail between my legs and living kinda dangerously but o.k. taking a side street with blinkers on. Like a dufus I change out the master and slave cylinders because I knew the slave was a bit leaky. Doesnt solve the problem but it does seem a little smoother...shifting. Does not release and it totally sound like the clutch is bent as it makes a reciprical scratchy noise partly engaging then partly not at a rythm in sync with flywheel rpm. Whats more is that I found 3 very loose tranny to engine bolts...so far! Looks like I forgot to torque!! Anyway...that flywheel is a monster piece of iron so what do ya think is wrong before I take her apart this week? Oh and any advice on towing?

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84 Duke, Holley TBI, Manual Trans 4.10, CompuCam, White

Are you running the aluminum clutch pedal, or have you switched to the steel version?

Aluminum.... Perhaps I should switch to the steel but what would that solve? What happens to the aluminum, I wonder. If it bends and no longer disengages the clutch perhaps I can bend it back to test. Thanks I will try that out tomorrow...maybe I can avoid a tow fee.

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84 Duke, Holley TBI, Manual Trans 4.10, CompuCam, White

I don't know as that's your problem, but they do bend, dramatically.

Those loose bellhousing bolts are going to cause all kinds of problems. I'd first take it all apart and look at the, release bearing, clutch fork, pressure plate and disc itself. It they are OK bolt it back together and make sure those bolts are tight. Loose bellhousing bolts will limit how far the clutch can release.

In theory you may be OK. The release bearing may just be contacting the pressure plate at a slight angle and making the noise. Also with the bellhousing bolts backed out enough the slave piston will hit the end of the bore before releasing the clutch fully. The only way to know for sure is to take it apart. Post some pics when you do. I'd love to see it.

So this scratchy noise came on all a sudden right?

The noise is while you are slipping the clutch? The noise goes away when the clutch is fully engaged and/or fully released?

Do you have this noise as soon as you start putting your foot on the pedal, before anything starts slipping?

If your getting a scratchy noise as the engine runs while your foot is off the clutch pedal then I think dissassembly is needed before you drive it anywhere - that means the tow home.

You can always do the two wheel dolly with the rear wheels on the dolly to get it home. Not sure how that compares to a tow home.

IF while running its not making any nasty noises, and it's reasonable, perhaps the thing to do is put it in second, push the clutch as far as you can to get whatever release, start it in gear and drive home. I'm not sure how far of a drive it is. You will have to consider the safety of this drive.

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: I was assuming there was no seperation of the tranny/engine. There is a lot of pressure to disengage the clutch so flexing could very well occur. I assume that you have already tightened these bolts.

Agreed. My thoughts were since it been driven like this for a while it may still be fixable. If those bolts have not been tightened yet DO THAT FIRST!!! I would still take everything apart and check it out later. Its the only way to be sure there is no permanent damage. Even if there is no seperation while sitting there may be some while the clutch is disengaged (or attemping to) and all that pressure is there.

I didn't take into account he was not at home so getting there is #1 priority. Tighten everything up and check the function. Hopefully it will get him home so he can check everything out properly. If its not right, don't drive it. Its not worth the risk of further damage.

Seeing how we already know that you have/had loose bell housing bolts - what are the odds that your pressure plate bolts and/ or your flywheel to crank bolts have come loose? I'd get it in the air and pull the inspection cover and at least check the pressure plate bolts. You will have to pull the trans to check the flywheel to crank bolts. You might get lucky! I have seen a few pressure plates come loose. Makes all kinds of funny noise and the clutch will not engage well. Good Luck!

Pat

Cool! Yeah, I didnt think of that checking out the bolts with the tranny still on thing! Maybe I was a complete jumbleduck when it came to putting the thing back together. Sometimes long hours can make the mind weary as well.

I took a look at the pedal arm and it DOES look bent and in a way that would shorten it's stroke. I may get lucky bending it back. Might just be able to release enough to take it on the road for a couple miles with the blinkers on. Maybe not. Well see in just a few minutes here.....

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84 Duke, Holley TBI, Manual Trans 4.10, CompuCam, White

So take a look in the inspection plate hole and see if theres broken off parts down in there.

I think it's safe to say you need a new clutch. Best of luck!

OK, got it up in the air and checked for case cracking or some other obvious stuff. Checks out.

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84 Duke, Holley TBI, Manual Trans 4.10, CompuCam, White

Yep - Thats a pull it out and inspect to see whats damaged thing. If you didn't replace the throw out bearing before I would for sure now. Inspect the pressure plate/flywheel. I don't think you need to look at the other parts too critically, this shouldn't have damaged them.

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: Yep - Thats a pull it out and inspect to see whats damaged thing. If you didn't replace the throw out bearing before I would for sure now. Inspect the pressure plate/flywheel. I don't think you need to look at the other parts too critically, this shouldn't have damaged them.

Yea, I figure if it can shift fine not running than the fork is OK. SOOOooo..now to drop the tranny. I kinda figured..that's why I lifted up the back that way.

Oh AutoZone had a crazy deal on an OEM clutch kit.....$51.00 That maybe a glitch cause that's about wholesale. Anyway I got one ordered...be here in a couple days.

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84 Duke, Holley TBI, Manual Trans 4.10, CompuCam, White

I used to have a Fiero with the Duke and 5-speed Isuzu. I made an engine support using 4x4 lumber and some long, threaded hooks. I drilled holes through the 4x4 for the threaded ends of the hooks, with big washers to spread the load. You should be able to get those items from the local hardware store.

yeah it is possible to service the clutch while the engine is in the vehicle.... hard but possible.
i happen to have the factory service manual and all the torque specs.
crankshaft to flywheel...50 ft lbs
pressure plate to flywheel...15 ft lbs
slave cyl to bracket...20 ft lbs
slave bracket to trans...32 ft lbs
transaxle to engine bolts...55 ft lbs
control assembly (two bolts for the middle section of bracket,slave cyl bracket and shift linkage bracket bolt onto this)... 20 ft lbs
front cradle nuts( two bolts with nuts on the end that "hinge" the cradle assy)...67 ft lbs
rear cradle barolts...76 ft lbs
engine mount( under belts)...42 ft lbs
rear drivetrain mount...18 ft lbs
front drivetrain mount...36 ft lbs
dont forget to take pics of every part you take off!!! we wanna see.lol

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1985 gt notchie auto (pic)
1986 se notchie standard 4spd

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: I used to have a Fiero with the Duke and 5-speed Isuzu. I made an engine support using 4x4 lumber and some long, threaded hooks. I drilled holes through the 4x4 for the threaded ends of the hooks, with big washers to spread the load. You should be able to get those items from the local hardware store.

I like that idea thanx. There's an ACE on my BUS ROUTE to work. sounds good. By the way, did the 5 speed work well for the Duke? I have the performance 4 speed Muncie. I like it generally, it's just that 1st gear is kinda tedious in that I generally have to change after less than a second, (it is completely useless at launch if your behind another car) and that at high way speeds the RPMs are up around 4000. Actually, I NEVER push it over 65mph because the RPMs. thnx!

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84 Duke, Holley TBI, Manual Trans 4.10, CompuCam, White

[This message has been edited by White 84 SE (edited 03-30-2010).]

yeah your four speed has the 4.10:1 final drive. the five peed isuzu has a much better interstate gearing.
the five speed isuzu had the 3.35:1 final
the five speed getrag had the 3.60:1 but better overdrive... still not as interstate friendly as the isuzu though.
ive heard that the isuzu can handle a 2.8 v6 with not much problem but that may be about it safely.
that four speed will be stronger but with that 2.5 powering it the isuzu may last a long time no prob.( 200k miles ++?)

The 4cyl / Isuzu combo isn't going to win any races (unless you're racing a Moped or something). But highway fuel economy is great. I was getting over 35 MPG on the interstate, and a little over 25 MPG around town. It would turn just over 2500 RPM @ 70 MPH in 5th gear.

i would say if youre going to continue to use the duke with that isuzu then by all means go for it. it does have a great gearing for the interstate. i have a four speed muncie behind my v6 2.8 and i wish every day i had some 2.60:1 final drive for it.
i would love to be just popping it into third at fifty miles an hour rather than fourth at thirty.
i need to get someone with a cnc machine to cut me some gears to bolt in ... once i get a spare transaxle to play with that is.
edit: that isuzu will hold up just fine to a duke. i saw one with 230,000 miles for sale. original eng and trans. almost bought it but the brakes were all shot and i needed to go to college.

[This message has been edited by BlackGT Codde (edited 03-30-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: The 4cyl / Isuzu combo isn't going to win any races (unless you're racing a Moped or something)....

hmmmmmmm

I wonder if I could swap a 2.5 / Isuzu into a Moped?
Well and also - would that increase the Moped's speed?

Alright you guys are going crazy here....ha ha

Whats this sticking a isuzu tranny for a Duke into a moped stuff!!!!! LOL dang
Reminds me of my college days when I would go to the McDonalds and some parapelegic would ALWAYS zip past me in his super powered wheel chair. It was like a cartoon...I would look both ways and the coast would be completely clear and WHAM just before I step up to the register ZANG some pint sized genius with a tongue for a steering wheel would zip in and order an icecream cone.

Anyway I have the Muncie 4.10 coupled with the Duke and not the Isuzu just to clarify. Since I am going to have it open maybe theres a mod I can do. In general I wish the entire setup was a bit "higher". Meaning I got torque enough to start in 2nd for most driving so if 1st were a little more like 2nd and on until 4th would be a little like having a 5th ratio wise (understand?). Such a set up would be perfect!

I was thinking that simply changing to a taller tire would about do this. Running the SE stock 215 60R 14s now but was considering 215 70R 14s. But wouldnt one gear swap do this as well and which one? This might be the subject for another thread entirely.

Just shooting the breeze while waiting for some parts to come in.

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84 Duke, Holley TBI, Manual Trans 4.10, CompuCam, White

Hey man I went to get my clutch set and they told me they had a bunch of new orders!! Sounds like the word got out. Actually they told me I already picked it up! No someone put it aside for me but still.

Just an update, I got the axels off. Getting to that point took me 4 hours which included wheels, emergency brakes, getting a 30mm socket for the axel nuts, electric and tranny cables.... Had to go to work. I got tomorrow off. I wanna show you all the improvised engine support thing.

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84 Duke, Holley TBI, Manual Trans 4.10, CompuCam, White

First time I did a clutch I did it that way. Total ***** to get the tranny back up and get it aligned and bolted. Make sure you have two or three sets of hands. If you have a way to "hang" the tranny it helps. A tranny jack is good also but still a PIA.

As you know its a big pia doing it the other way also.

Good Luck! Least most of the bolts aren't 25 years frozen in.

Yea man thanks! Oh by the way...went with some non stainless steel exhaust hanger stuff....6 months of Chicago winter and I actually snapped a frozen bolt. For us up yonder GOTTA!! go with SS!!!!

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84 Duke, Holley TBI, Manual Trans 4.10, CompuCam, White

[This message has been edited by White 84 SE (edited 04-01-2010).]

My advice for what it's worth, forget the static bar to hang the engine from (4 x 4, square steel tube, or one you buy for this purpose). Use an engine hoist. Hook up the hoist, hang the engine, drop the cradle out. Now you can lower the engine with transmission attached, unblot transmission and slide straight out under the spaceframe. Installation is a breeze, took me 5 minutes by myself with tranny balanced on floor jack.

For a couple of pics see.

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/079525.html

I've also read where you can remove the rear cradle mounting bolts and tilt the cradle down and do something very similar, but I couldn't see how there was enough room so I didn't do that, must work though there are lots of posts about doing it that way.

yeah if ya havent noticed my pic is a rear cradle bolt thats just trying to get the old one out... imagine trying to get that flush sheared bolt outta the frame...
still havent
that northern illinios rust is a killer

Well, I've already removed the cradle..... Now the manual says to remove the flywheel to converter bolts....I CANT FIND THEM. Dont know what they so I cant remove them.

Anyone know what these bolts are? Obviously they connect the flywheel to the converter. I must be misunderstanding something. Do they mean the flywheel to clutch plate bolts?

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84 Duke, Holley TBI, Manual Trans 4.10, CompuCam, White

[This message has been edited by White 84 SE (edited 04-02-2010).]

And, hows everything look?

quote Originally posted by Fieroseverywhere: And, hows everything look?

The disc was completely smashed with debris all over the clutch case. The scratchy noise obviously came from this as also the inability to put into gear with the engine running. The fork looks unharmed, the bearing rolled pretty nice although I am swapping that anyway. Going with a new clutch plate even though the old looks fine just to be sure to get a good match.

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84 Duke, Holley TBI, Manual Trans 4.10, CompuCam, White