Well,had some spare time at work today so I installed my Innovate Motorsports LM-1 Wideband meter.

My 02 sensor blew out not long ago (threads/bung and all) but a buddy rewelded a new bung in the other day.
We put in the old 02 sensor but I was pretty sure it was toast.

So today I pulled it out and put in the wideband sensor.
Took apart the console and found a grommet/blockoff unused under the ECM so I put a small hole in it.
I cut the plug off the old 02 sensor and use it and the connector to extend the wire through the grommet into the car.
Inside the car,I simply plugged in the wideband cable.
I connected the analog auxilary output to the old 02 sensor wire and grounded it to an existing ground under the ECM on the
trans/fuel tank tunnel.
Ran my cable's under the console and out the driver side under the shifter plate.
The LM-1 is sitting upright behind my instrument cluster,and is simply plugged into the cigarette lighter.

Everything runs great,have only took a quick test spin but it is much smoother and responsive.
I can also tell that the slight stumble it has is probably due to something fuel related,as the AFR goes slightly lean during events.

I am going to flush the injector's with seafoam and cleaner,but my injector flush machine has no adapter for the GM TBI style valves.
My fuel pressure kit does,but the other end of the hose that has the adapter only fits the guage itself and none of my adapters.
So I will need to get an adapter and then will flush the injector's,regulator and rail with seafoam at about 75psi or so.

I don't see me keeping the LM-1 on the dash like it is,will more than likely buy one of the interfacing guages.

This won't be used for tuning,other than adjusting regulator/pressure maybe.
I just like to have all possible info,and I didn't want to buy a stock sensor and no time to install a 4wire at the moment.
I'll post up a couple pics in a while when I can.

I doubt the car runs much better because it's a wideband sensor with narrowband emulation.
I have an Innovate LC-1, I know the narrowband emulation sucks, it's a 3-line approximation to a curve.

I don't know enough to comment about the GM ECM, but if it expects a smooth "curve", the 3-line approximation may not be ideal.

A good condition stock sensor might work even better.

I can guarentee it works better than the stock one I pulled out.
Whether it's more optimal than a new stocker doesn't much concern me at this time-it's a bandaid till I get time to put in a 4wire.

My LC-1 works beautifully after I sent it back for repair under warranty. I got an old one that would not program. They replaced it free. When running it emulating a narrow band for the ECM the car would go into closed loop very quickly.

I'm now using the wide band capability with code59, a 3 BAR MAP, and a 1227730 ECM running DIS.

[This message has been edited by Hudini (edited 10-27-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Hudini: I'm now using the wide band capability with code59, a 3 BAR MAP, and a 1227730 ECM running DIS.

You're now my hero...you chose to run with some good stuff there... link to build thread?

Be careful you didnt put the wb too close to the heads.. It should be about 3ft from the nearest exhaust port.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: Be careful you didnt put the wb too close to the heads.. It should be about 3ft from the nearest exhaust port.

just curious is this for heat or other reasons?

Thanks,
Charlie

quote Originally posted by Hudini: I'm now using the wide band capability with code59, a 3 BAR MAP, and a 1227730 ECM running DIS.

That's my plan too, except I picked up a '7749 ECM to run the intercooler pump.

Cheers

quote Originally posted by cptsnoopy: just curious is this for heat or other reasons? Thanks, Charlie

It helps accuracy, and well it is just the way the wideband is designed to work. It says that in your installation instructions. I have seen them get burned out faster in situations where they care close to the heads, aka a stock narrowband location.

Oxygen sensors require heat to work properly; this is why narrowbands are installed relatively close to the engine on factory engines.

Widebands have their own heaters, so they can be located further away without issue.

If you have a turbo, install the sensor downstream of the turbo.

I've been tuning with these for awhile so I know how they work but thanks for the advice.
Might not have it installed very long anyway.
I've lost a quart of oil since last oil change.
Haven't noticed before as I've only had the car a couple months,and changed the oil twice already.

Need to check again,added the quart a day or so ago but started hearing top end knock last night.
Gonna recheck oil,maybe pull a valve cover.
Pressure is okay,but has started dropping a bit and fluctuating at idle.
Might stick a pump in it,as I haven't found a suitable parts car yet for new engine/trans.
Also haven't decided which engine,will be determined by what I come across.

I do have a good s10 2.8 tbi in my shop though..

Fuel sending unit issue cleaned up with seafoam in the tank.

Got my first MPG calc from having the wideband in and piggybacking to the ECM.

My Gas Cubby app for my Iphone reads as follows.
Tell me if you can tell what tank was after the wideband was installed.
(Keep in mind my 02 sensor wasn't very good before,and gone some of this time)

Oct1 15.6mpg
Oct12 15.2
Oct22 15.2
Oct28 15.2
Oct30 18.7
Nov6 -will not calculate till next fillup.

Judging from this,keep your 02 sensor in good condition.

I wish mine was in better condition before swapping in the wideband,I would love to see the MPG difference going from a
single wire to a 4wire sensor.

there is no way you have a one wire wideband o2 sensor. those require a 5 volt reference voltage from the pcm, think 2-3 wires minimum with out a heater. what you have is a fancy stock type sensor, nothing more.

------------------

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1987 Pontiac Fiero GT 5-speed, 102k -Amber- been sitting for 10 years, the resurection has begun!
1987 Pontiac Fiero GT, 151,000 miles! decklid window, More pics of my 87 GT can be found here <-SOLD
1985 Pontiac Fiero 2m4 auto, 222K miles and counting <-recently lost to arson (6yo bro playing with fire) RIP!
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.7L 4x4, 78K <-Ex. Daily driver -Lost to the repo man
A 4 year olds knowledge of science: No matter how much jello you put into a swimming pool you still can't walk on water.

quote Originally posted by tednelson83: there is no way you have a one wire wideband o2 sensor. those require a 5 volt reference voltage from the pcm, think 2-3 wires minimum with out a heater. what you have is a fancy stock type sensor, nothing more.

Read the entire thread please.
Nobody ever mentioned a single wire wideband 02 signal or sensor.

And here's a reference for you to learn a little more about it.
http://www.innovatemotorspo.../resources/news3.php

Keep in mind that if it sputters and shows lean its NOT always a fuel problem if the engine misfires or doesnt fire at all its not only dumping unburned fuel into the exhaust its dumping all that oxygen it didnt use too and since thats all the sensor sees it will read as lean as all that unburned oxygen and gas goes on past. Just something Ive noticed alot of people overlook/overthink.

Basically all Im getting at is pretty well any misfire ignition or fuel related will show up as lean on a wideband.

Sorry,I never got furthur into that on here.

I know the 02 sensor isn't as reliable,i've done more diagnostic's than I posted up at first.
I have/had two seperate issues.
Had a 2k RPM stumble and misfire at idle,I was referencing the misfire about the lean events.
The stumble was EGR and the misfire is a sticking injector.
I am rebuilding a set of injectors right now,if needed they will be swapped in.
(Hopefully my injector flush machine will unstick the injector)
EGR was repaired the other day.

Kind of letting everything ride right now,as I'm in the works of buying an L67 longblock and also a 99 GTP driver.
Praying everything goes through.

quote Originally posted by DefEddie: Read the entire thread please. Nobody ever mentioned a single wire wideband 02 signal or sensor.

you sure did!

quote I cut the plug off the old 02 sensor and use it and the connector to extend the wire through the grommet into the car. Inside the car,I simply plugged in the wideband cable. I connected the analog auxilary output to the old 02 sensor wire and grounded it to an existing ground under the ECM on the trans/fuel tank tunnel.

here you mention that your working with one wire, so perhaps i misunderstood something here, but then you go on to say in that same post:

quote I just like to have all possible info,and I didn't want to buy a stock sensor and no time to install a 4wire at the moment.

which leads one to believe your not using a 4 wire. so with that info if your not using a one wire, and your not using a standard 4 wire sensor, than what the hell ARE you using?
i do actualy recall reading the entire thread before making the above comment, because i dont comment on a thread untill i have read it.

[This message has been edited by tednelson83 (edited 11-08-2009).]

quote Originally posted by DefEddie: Well,had some spare time at work today so I installed my **Innovate Motorsports LM-1 Wideband meter**. So today I pulled it out and put in the wideband sensor. I connected the **analog auxilary output ** to the old 02 sensor wire and grounded it to an existing ground under the ECM on the trans/fuel tank tunnel. The LM-1 is sitting upright behind my instrument cluster,and is simply plugged into the cigarette lighter. .

I guess your just not familiar with wideband 02 meter's than?

Quick overview of an LM-1:
It is a wideband 02 meter.
It can piggyback a narrowband signal to an ECM for tuning purposes.

If I was unclear sorry.
Your the only one that seems to be confused.
The link I posted previously has more detailed info on the LM-1 if you look around as it is the manufacturers website.
Check it out for more info.

*Rereading I could see how someone could get confused.
I assumed everyone knew what an LM-1 was.
The reference referring to 1 wire and 4 wire is befuddled by my thought processes.

I don't wish to waste money on a single wire 02 sensor at the moment.
The car needs one anyway,so I am going to install a 4 wire 02 sensor instead of a stock single wire.
I have an LM-1 I use for tuning 96-07 GM vehicles in my side business.
For me common sense was to just use the LM-1 at the moment.
It provides me with additional info for diagnosing this problem child of a car.
As a dealer technician I enjoy having all possible info at my fingertips, AFR is a good indicator of what's going on
in a stock engine and not just for tuning.

Hope I cleared up my previous bad description for those that are unfamiliar with widebands and narrowbands.
Next time i'll keep my thought processes out of it.

[This message has been edited by DefEddie (edited 11-08-2009).]

oh, so you'r using that thing for tuneing, and you intend to retrofit a 4 wire sensor later. i get it now. so what are the benafits of doing it this way. to my knowlage there is no real benifit to the fieros ecm to using a wideband, the thing is just too slow.
and about connecting a standard 4 wire sensor, how are you planning to control the heater circuit? are you just going to run it constantly? many cars use that circuit to heat up the sensor to get it working faster, and then shut it off, turning it back on occasionaly at idle to keep the sensor working. or do you know of another gizmo that would do that?
i can see the benefit to using a 4 wire Zirconia type o2 over the stock one. that would allow the car to go into closed loop mutch faster.

i have not done much tuning at all, but i do understand emissions quite well. i am a California Smog Technician. i test cars, and repair the ones that failed in order to bring them back in to compliance with this states regulations. so i do understand how these devices work, im just lost in the application to tuneing. sorry for the confusion.

Actually,being heated isn't as important so much as being a constant temperature.
All the vehicles I deal with only provide 12v to the 02 sensor that I know of.
I don't deal with alot of different brand vehicles though,and I don't diagnose alot of heater circuits on new vehicles.
So not something I pay attention too honestly.

It will be a big improvement,the single wire depends on the exhaust heat to regulate the sensor
at the proper temperature.
Too many things affect cylinder temperatures though,so it's not a great regulator.

It will also provide smoother switchpoint and bias readings to the ECM I figure.

And I don't plan to use the Wideband for tuning.
I tune OBDII,and have no desire to jump into OBDI.
I needed an 02 sensor,wanted heated,didn't feel like building a 4 wire circuit that second.

The fact that it's a wideband is just icing since i'm working on issues anyway.
I don't expect any power gains from this at all.
The MPG gains surely came from just having an 02 sensor versus not/crappy

When it comes to install the 4wire,it will be stock anyway to the new engine.
From the looks of it,I will have an engine before I find time to wire one up to OBDI.
If needed,a circuit could be built that simply monitors an EGT (which I would also love to install) and triggers a relay for the circuit.

If it were an OBDII PCM and needed done I would simply use the EGR or similar PCM circuit reprogrammed to trigger a relay at certain RPM's.

I worked out a circuit a few years ago to utilize the EGR timing/fueling maps to activate the VGT system on a Ford turbo.
When Emission's aren't a factor on the local level you can have some fun with PCM inputs/outputs.

That's all complicating it though,power-ground,get r done.
02 sensors are a dime a dozen