I am looking to do a streached wide body build with a longitudinal mounted LSx and at this time an unknown 5 or 6 speed transaxle, Audi or the like. Has anyone on this board done a longitudinal V8 using a third party cradle from someone like Dave Held (i dont know if us still does his longitudinal cradle but his is the idea)? I have seen several longitudinal threads but none with a custom third party cradle.

What sort of advice or info are you looking for?

Dave Held sold his business. I think it's called RMS or something like that nowadays. I believe the proprietor is even a member here. There are a couple of threads about stretching Fiero chassis.

1) Can a stretched longitudinal V8 swap with a Audi/Porsche/Subaru/Quaife/Mendeola transaxle be done with success?
2) Are there third party cradles for this application? I am not a welder.
3) Would a longitudinal stretched Fiero handle like a sports car or a chopped up mess????
4) Would it be more sane to do a tranverse V8 swap using V8 Archie's kit? How does that hookup handle?

I have had six Corvettes, I restored a '64 and two '68's. My current is a 2002 Z06.
I also completely restored from the ground up a '86 Fiero GT, it was a project with my boys when they were in high school.

I am very interested in a new project and really like the wide body chopped top look of cars like the ones Archie did for/with Madcurl, I think that widebody design stretched out 11" would give it a very nice look. I have been following the Stretched Concepts in Amida's thread and several others in the Contruction Zone. I also really like the Pantera body that opm200 is doing.

With all this said can a longitudinal stretched V8 Fiero be done with good success? If so where do I start with the frame?

Any thoughts would be welcome.

John

quote Originally posted by jmyokley: 3) Would a longitudinal stretched Fiero handle like a sports car or a chopped up mess????

Ackermann steering will change, I don't know if it would be enough to notice though.
Probably a low-speed parking maneuver nuisance at worst?

I've ridden in several stretched fieros and the ride is quite good. As long as you get the weight distribution fairly similar to a stock Fiero you should be fine. Obviously shocks and springs and swaybars selected will affect ride/handling

quote [B] Ackermann steering will change, I don't know if it would be enough to notice though. Probably a low-speed parking maneuver nuisance at worst?

I think you're mixing up what he's saying here. He's going to be lengthening the chassis in the rear to acommodate a longitudinal v8 configuration. I don't think he was going to widen the chassis/suspension track. Just lengthening the wheelbase shouldn't affect ackerman, the turning radius will definately be affected though. The front track width is what I thought deals with ackerman. If i'm wrong my bad.

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88blackchopv8

[This message has been edited by av8fiero (edited 09-30-2009).]

I would worry about the Ackermann steering change. Ackermann steering is far from perfect and mostly affects very sharp and therefore low speed turns. If you’re planning to do auto cross, increasing the wheelbase is already a bad idea.

Weight distribution is a concern as is weight gain. The wheelbase increase helps to move the weight bias forward but the increased engine/transmission weight moves it aft. The transmission being behind the axle moves it aft too.

An adjustable rear anti-roll bar would be a good idea since you don’t have an R&D staff on hand I imagine.

If you were to build your own suspension, you could put some really fat rubber back there to help with the weight bias change, but snap over-steer might be the result.

Then you have braking balance. I have seen racing cars that have separate master-cylinders for the front and rear with an adjustable bar transferring pedal forces to both. Adjusting the balance by changing to calipers with different piston diameters sounds like a lot of trial and error R&D too.

If you’re just looking to have fun, none of these details seem very important. It’s not like you are going to mass-produce these things for sale to the public.

I definitely agree that the 11 inch increase in wheel base would look great.

quote Originally posted by av8fiero: I've ridden in several stretched fieros and the ride is quite good. As long as you get the weight distribution fairly similar to a stock Fiero you should be fine. Obviously shocks and springs and swaybars selected will affect ride/handling I think you're mixing up what he's saying here. He's going to be lengthening the chassis in the rear to acommodate a longitudinal v8 configuration. I don't think he was going to widen the chassis/suspension track. Just lengthening the wheelbase shouldn't affect ackerman, the turning radius will definately be affected though. The front track width is what I thought deals with ackerman. If i'm wrong my bad.

Have you ridden in a Fiero with an 11" stretch?

I have seen several threads where the front and rear tracks were widened for widebody applications does this cause problems with the handling of the car? I guess I need to study up on the Ackermann steering angle.

quote Originally posted by gem1138: An adjustable rear anti-roll bar would be a good idea since you don’t have an R&D staff on hand I imagine. If you were to build your own suspension, you could put some really fat rubber back there to help with the weight bias change, but snap over-steer might be the result. Then you have braking balance. I have seen racing cars that have separate master-cylinders for the front and rear with an adjustable bar transferring pedal forces to both. Adjusting the balance by changing to calipers with different piston diameters sounds like a lot of trial and error R&D too.

I can help with the adjustable anti-sway bar. See the link in my signature. Also, several of the ideas you talked about are incorporated into my IMSA. There are a lot of details in the other link in my sig. Let me know if I can help.

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Paul

My IMSA Build: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/789315
HHP Adjustable Sway Bars: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/036556.html

[This message has been edited by R Runner (edited 09-30-2009).]

What do you want from the build? Looks? Cruiser? Fast car? Win trophies at car shows?

quote Originally posted by R Runner: I can help with the adjustable anti-sway bar. See the link in my signature. Also, several of the ideas you talked about are incorporated into my IMSA. There are a lot of details in the other link in my sig. Let me know if I can help.

Thanks R Runner I will look at your threads.

quote Originally posted by jmyokley: 1) Can a stretched longitudinal V8 swap with a Audi/Porsche/Subaru/Quaife/Mendeola transaxle be done with success? 2) Are there third party cradles for this application? I am not a welder. 3) Would a longitudinal stretched Fiero handle like a sports car or a chopped up mess???? 4) Would it be more sane to do a tranverse V8 swap using V8 Archie's kit? How does that hookup handle? I have had six Corvettes, I restored a '64 and two '68's. My current is a 2002 Z06. I also completely restored from the ground up a '86 Fiero GT, it was a project with my boys when they were in high school. I am very interested in a new project and really like the wide body chopped top look of cars like the ones Archie did for/with Madcurl, I think that widebody design stretched out 11" would give it a very nice look. I have been following the Stretched Concepts in Amida's thread and several others in the Contruction Zone. I also really like the Pantera body that opm200 is doing. With all this said can a longitudinal stretched V8 Fiero be done with good success? If so where do I start with the frame? Any thoughts would be welcome. John

If you have a C5 Zo6 do not waste your time on a fiero as a C5 owner it will not compare to the Corvette. to do what you want will cost you more than the Zo6 and you will have a Fiero. If you love Fieros and want to build a Fiero then go for it. Just the opinion of a C5 and Fiero owner.

quote Originally posted by jmyokley: Will, I want looks and a cruiser. I am not interested in a real fast car, my 2002 Z06 can scare the pants off me. I have always wanted a mid engine sports car but dont have 200 grand to spend and I like building things. John

Was basically going to suggest the same as above... if you want performance, put the money into the Vette.

May I suggest you read Bubbajoe's thread from beginning to end

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000007.html

quote Originally posted by Will: Was basically going to suggest the same as above... if you want performance, put the money into the Vette.

he wants to build it not buy it

[This message has been edited by av8fiero (edited 10-02-2009).]

Regarding your question about longitudinal cradles and Dave Held - I know Dave and as I understand it, he did not sell the cradle portion of Held Motorsports when he sold the business to Lee. He retained that part and has developed other items for the hot rod industry also. You might want to check his website at www.team321.com and contact him re your cradle requirements.

Good Luck
Mike Freed