I too would like to get close to the 355 sound. I have been thinking about getting an Aurora motor, destroking it to get closer to 3.5L and also giving it room to rev up higher. Of course, I still need to find a shop that can do that... Anyway, adding a set of 180* headers to that ought to get me about as close as possible while still keeping the price reasonable.
To me there are 4 main ingreients to the sound: 1. v8 2. 180* exhaust 3. high rev 4. pitch
To my ear, while many of the examples of sounds given are close, there's no hiding the fact that the displacement of the motors is bigger than the Ferrari which then makes that bassy tone which doesn't sound as much like the real thing. The next is the rev limit. Just listen to the 355 dyno clip. Sure, a 4.6 liter hitting 6500 or even 7000 RPM sounds *close*, but, the real thing is unmistakably a smaller displacement motor and revving considerably higher. I think the redline is 8500. I think those differences are what makes it sound so unique.
well to get the exact same sound literally you will need to tune the exhaust like Ferrari does..It would be nice to get some pointers from them but thats highly ulikely. Tubi might be a source but they are in business to sell product , not help others design an exhaust on an old car with a swapped engine .. I am currently finishing up my N*swap with 180 * exhaust being a work in progress. It is a packaging nitmare due to space contraints. I know it will be critical as to what type of muffler and pipe size off the headers but thats going to just have to be part of the R&D. And, the intake setup plays a huge part in the overall sound as well so I am building a ITB setup for it but first i just want to get it running with the stock intake and see how it sounds
[This message has been edited by Erik (edited 08-07-2008).]
IP: Logged
04:56 PM
Erik Member
Posts: 5625 From: Des Moines, Iowa Registered: Jul 2002
wouldnt it be a matter of combining the right cylinders exhaust for the firing order of that engine? say on the 60*v6? and would they need to be all equal length pipes?
my 3500 sounds sooo nice when it revs up. theres only one video of it running decently. but not to my standards. once darth gets the chip made to work with my setup correctly, ill go out and get some kickass video. in and out of the car.
------------------ 1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp to the wheels
IP: Logged
05:20 PM
Erik Member
Posts: 5625 From: Des Moines, Iowa Registered: Jul 2002
wouldnt it be a matter of combining the right cylinders exhaust for the firing order of that engine? say on the 60*v6? and would they need to be all equal length pipes?
my 3500 sounds sooo nice when it revs up. theres only one video of it running decently. but not to my standards. once darth gets the chip made to work with my setup correctly, ill go out and get some kickass video. in and out of the car.
Yes it would be a matter of pairing up cylinders 180* off on the v8 The 60* V6 does not need to be paired up as they have 120* evenly spaced firing pulses one bank then the other which gives it that unique sound ..like a lambo in the higher revs which is also a 60*
Originally posted by americasfuture2k: my 3500 sounds sooo nice when it revs up. theres only one video of it running decently. but not to my standards. once darth gets the chip made to work with my setup correctly, ill go out and get some kickass video. in and out of the car.
I have always felt the 60 degree has a very nice sound the way it is and could probably be fine tuned a little more towards the Ferrari note by upping the revs and maybe changing the exhaust pipe diameter to something a little smaller without restriction (quads). The flywheel weight can be looked into also, a lighter flywheel allows faster engine revs and decels characteristic of the V12 quick jab like sound. I recall the camshaft profile having an effect on this also.
IP: Logged
08:16 PM
americasfuture2k Member
Posts: 7131 From: Edmond, Oklahoma Registered: Jan 2006
maybe thats why me and merlot have always liked the way a 60*v6 sounds when it revs up. the cam thats in the 3500 right now revs to 7200, but the ecm has been tuned to limit it at 6800. it does sound like a ferrari at the higher end in person. the only video i have of it ripping through the gears doesnt sound like it does in person.
------------------ 1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp to the wheels
IP: Logged
10:56 PM
Erik Member
Posts: 5625 From: Des Moines, Iowa Registered: Jul 2002
------------------ 1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp to the wheels
[This message has been edited by americasfuture2k (edited 08-07-2008).]
IP: Logged
11:06 PM
americasfuture2k Member
Posts: 7131 From: Edmond, Oklahoma Registered: Jan 2006
i think merlot is really wanting to do that 3.6 dohc swap because of the way it sounds revved all the way up. and the massive amounts of power it has stock. oh, and hte fact that it is a new 60*v6 that has not found its way into a fiero. yet.
------------------ 1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp to the wheels
IP: Logged
11:09 PM
PFF
System Bot
americasfuture2k Member
Posts: 7131 From: Edmond, Oklahoma Registered: Jan 2006
wow, that alfa sounds very nice. i bet those would be hard to find in america.
dang, i need to stop posting one after another haha.
------------------ 1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp to the wheels
IP: Logged
11:54 PM
Aug 8th, 2008
merlot566jka Member
Posts: 676 From: Norman, Oklahoma Registered: Jun 2007
its called edit mike. edit your first post to include things that you forgot in you last post. seperate things
into paragraphs
lastly, use transition words
lmfao.
ok yes exactly why i want the 3.6dohc. i dont care if it does 16s all day long in the quarter, i want that sound. i want it bad. (ok if i do a 3.6dohc and it runs 16s, i want to be shot dead on the spot, thanks)
IP: Logged
12:52 AM
pavo_roddy Member
Posts: 4351 From: State with a city named Gotham Registered: Apr 2004
While on the subject of exhaust notes of the F355, which one do you like better? All 3 are pretty different too....... If it were up to me, #'s 2 and 3 are the best..........
While on the subject of exhaust notes of the F355, which one do you like better? All 3 are pretty different too....... If it were up to me, #'s 2 and 3 are the best..........
i like number 3. god ferraris sound so nice! i need to become stoopid rich. taking advantage of a gi bill
------------------ 1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp to the wheels
A TVR Cerbera V8 has a flat plane crank from the mid 1990s, I dont know how many there are across the pond but would make an interesting retro fit, all alloy and light weight
------------------ 1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp to the wheels
IP: Logged
02:13 PM
Darth88Formula Member
Posts: 1323 From: Mt. Holly, NC Registered: Aug 2005
Screw the Ferrari and Lambo. Gimme one of these any day!! 600hp 2L v16 from British Racing Motors. Used in the formula one racing circuit back in the 50s. Had a supercharger that ran off the crank at 75 PSI.
Listen to an SVT ford contour this is the best V 6 sound in the world,, the contour has steel manifolds so if you transfered the whole exhaust system minus the manifolds you could come close to the contour sound,,(of course major hack job) unfortunately few of these make it to the salvage yard.. the engine is an aluminum dohc.. Ford brought in outsiders to come up with the sound.. I beleave its the mufflers that make the sound.. This is a lot more do do doable than building a flat crank .. or install eyetalian mufflers..The next time a ford contour is availvable at a car dealer just go listen ,, you will want to buy the sound,, neato jet The cherry bomb (thrush also) is cheap & easy to adapt,and awesome sound going thru the gears,,yet police car friendly when they are beside you..helps performance also ,, it makes a duke sound good !! with cleaned & ported intake and exhaust & port match on 2.8 you could go to slightly larger exhaust pipes and get a very small increase in H P
[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 08-10-2008).]
IP: Logged
09:04 PM
Francis T Member
Posts: 6620 From: spotsylvania va. usa Registered: Oct 2003
I think the classic Ferrari sound is due to a few things.... I think they must have 12 small pistons moving at high RPMs. Motorcycles can get kinda close so perhaps the # of cylinders is a little less important than the high RPMs. After that seems like they generally divide the sound into 2 - 4 outlets. So there are say 4 long thin tail pipes rather than 2 short fat ones. Thier mufflers seems to gain from some sound canceling by forcing the exhaust to collide in the smallish muffler before exiting. With all that stuff together they can afford to keep it free flowing and not be completely obnoxious. In general I am guessing multiple long thin pipes used with no constriction and high reving small pistons.....?
Of the general Fiero swap engines I am betting on the Quad 4 with a 5 speed to start. Maybe combine that with a dual exhaust post cat via motorcycle stock. A round muffler with 2 inlets pointed toward each other and 2 outlets to longish double resonaters. There's my guess....
[This message has been edited by White 84 SE (edited 08-13-2009).]
No 6 or 8 cylinder engine is ever going to sound like a V-12, the best of the Italian engines, and it is a bit ...sad to see people trying. Just let them sound like themselves, that is usually rather nice anyway with a properly muffled V6 or V8.
One of these days I'll do mpg files of a couple of my cars, including Fiero, another V6 and a V-12. No comparison.
