O2 Sensor Location Sensor must be mounted between the engine and the catalytic converters (in application where they are used). If no catalytic converters are used, then the sensor should be close to the hedder collector, where the exhaust is hot and each cylinder is represented.
The O2 sensor must be installed in the side or top of the exhaust pipe. The installation angle of the Bosch wideband O2 sensor should be inclined at least 10ƒ towards horizontal (electrical connection upwards). Thus preventing the collection of liquids between sensor housing and sensor element during the cold start phase.
Tightening torque: 40-60 Nm (29-44 ft-lbs). Material characteristics and strength of the thread must be appropriate (Source: Bosch Y 258 K01 005-000e).
On turbo applications install the sensor after the turbo and before the catalytic converter. The high exhaust pressure before the turbo interferes with the measurement and the high exhaust temperatures encountered can damage the sensor.
Most factory O2 sensor locations are acceptable for the wideband sensor but be sure they follow the general guidelines above. If you require a bung to weld in the exhaust they are available from K&N - part # 85-21688. Bung specifications are also given in this drawing from Bosch (click image to enlarge image).
Under-floor installation of the sensor at a distance from the engine requires an additional check of the following points: a) positioning of the sensor with respect to stone impact hazard, b) positioning and fixing of cable and connector with respect to mechanical damage, cable bending stress and thermal stress. The sensor must not be exposed to strong mechanical shocks (e.g. while the sensor is installed). Otherwise the sensor element may crack without visible damage to the sensor housing (Source: Bosch Y 258 K01 005-000e).
sensor should never exceed 850 degrees C (about 1560 degrees Fahrenheit),
im not going to leave the WB in my car, its only for tunning, so i think im safe.
1560 deg F maximum, you are to close for comfort especially if you don't have an EGT gauge, I have one and unless your entire fuel range starts out rich during the tuning process, at some point you are going to run right up on that temp limit and possibly ruin your sensor. I placed mine about 7 ft away from the turbo standing straight up. You mentioned borrowing a WBO2 sensor earlier, you may put yourself out of favor range with that location.
the exhaust gasses leaving the head are, "in an ideal world only 1500degrees" + the turbo is about 30 inches from the turbo and more heat is lost through the Manifold, Y pipe and the Turbo so i would be suprized to see any thing above 1500degrees
the exhaust gasses leaving the head are, "in an ideal world only 1500degrees" + the turbo is about 30 inches from the turbo and more heat is lost through the Manifold, Y pipe and the Turbo so i would be suprized to see any thing above 1500degrees
I was considering my own EGT temps of as high as near 1000 degrees from one bank of cylinders 2 ft from the exhaust ports at the turbine inlet while revving conservatively in the driveway making adjustments to the tune.
You will gain heat at the "Y" merger point not loose because you're combining heat from both banks into the turbine housing. It's just a precautionary measure erroring on the safe side. I have to many parts left to buy to risk having to spring $80 for a replacement WBO2 sensor. Hurry up and put it on the road.
Remember, more fuel = more power = more heat than a naturally aspirated engine.
[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 10-06-2008).]
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01:44 PM
Steven Snyder Member
Posts: 3323 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Mar 2004
A MASSIVE amount of heat is converted in the turbocharger. That's what its for, and why it gets so damn hot. The gas leaving the turbo will be far below 1500*F.
OK i am thinking about taking my fiero to be dyno tunned by the local GM tunning pro, and with the setup that i have i could copy and sell the bin file to offset the cost of tunning 700.00 (this is a veary good shop) i was wondering who would be interested in a pre-tuned file proven at 10psi?
no offence to darthfiero or sinnister performance but i realy need to Dyno-Tune my car and thats realy hard to do over E-Mail as darthfiero will tell you, but if you have a chance to go to darthfiero by all means DO i have nothing but good things to say about him.
the asking price would be $75.00
the way it would work is.
i would not send anyone the BIN-file untill a large amount of the origanal cost of the dyno tune would be covered by selling the bin,
then i would ask the pepole that want one to send a paypal on a certan day, and as soon as i recive all the payments then,
i would send out the bin-file all in the same day so no one is left waiting for there file after sending a payment,
Also if the reqired amount is not met then i would decline the payments and try to work this out agin.
the reason i do this is because, i need to make some of the money i will be spending on the dyno tune back, and if i sell to one person at a time somone could turn around and under sell me because they have only $75.00 dallars invested.
the closer your engine is to mine the better the bin file will work, worst case senario? you would have to have the file finetuned for your mods but the bin file would already be veary close saving you tons of time and money on the dyno and the the hourly shop rate. (average dyno cost $125.00hr average shop rate $90.00hr) less than half the cost of one hour when dynotunning.
here are my specs so you may be abble to build or modify you current setup to fit these specs. 7730 ecm swap with knock sensor and 2bar map 30# injectors stock fiero intake and TB long tube headders 3.4l camaro swap ( stock internals ) T3/T4 V Band Turbocharger, Wheel Trim 60mm, Turbine Housing A/R 0.60, Compressor Housing A/R 0.48, 2" Inlet, 2.5" V-Band Outlet air to air intercooler no EGR but could be made to work with EGR by darthfiero. as for getting the bin file into your ecm i sugest a moates ostrich and tunner-pro or have a chip burned by darthfiero.
please let me know at this thread: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/095416.html also if i get more than 10 buyers i will begin to lower the price. just remember ALL buyers need to send the paypal before BIN-file is sold/sent to buyers.
erureka i found the problem some where some how the 12v going to the rear set of injectors is f***ing up thank jebas its not the injectors fixed the split in the wire and now its running better than it ever has.
[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 10-09-2008).]
ok so i had a problem with the pvc pipes they are to smothe and the elbos keep poping off i will be taking them off and giving them a ridged edge at each end so they dont pop off under boost. i will post pics when i do it.
[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 10-10-2008).]
ok so i had a problem with the pvc pipes they are to smothe and the elbos keep poping off i will be taking them off and giving them a ridged edge at each end so they dont pop off under boost. i will post pics when i do it.
You will not have problems if you use steel or aluminum barbed pipe. You are not running near enough boost to blow couplings off the metal pipes. It will be difficult with the PVC pipe because unlike metal tubing that has either a contour for a barb or welded build up that does not weaken the pipe, you will likely have to etch the tubing to leave a depression that might weaken the tubing and cause it to fail at that point especially if it gets really hot.
At $700 for a dyno session you better play it safe, this incident is a warning of problems to come, I've blown off an oil adaptor I knew should have been threaded properly and spent a day removing and re-rebuilding a turbo that I knew had to much play when I installed and that's probably why I'm not driving the car now, because of the down time that resulted from those willful mistakes.
i just bought 20 T-bolt clamps and will pick up the aluminum tubing tomorow. after carefull inspection of the removed PVC pipes i noticed that they are out of round due to heat and clamp pressure. so on a turbo applacation the pvc pips are a no-go. the rubber elbows are holding up nice though. all that said pvc pipes are a no go can say i told you so now lol.
Originally posted by 3.6lvvt6spdgt: after carefull inspection of the removed PVC pipes i noticed that they are out of round due to heat and clamp pressure. so on a turbo applacation the pvc pips are a no-go. the rubber elbows are holding up nice though. all that said pvc pipes are a no go can say i told you so now lol.
No, can't let you take that one away from me, I told you so!
Originally posted by 3.6lvvt6spdgt: i lower my head in shame lol it was worth a try.
No harm in trying something new, different and possibly beneficial. Meanwhile, I'm collecting all of the necessities for when I return home hopefully within a month or so to finish fine tuning my swap. I chose a pair of OBX B9 N1 style adjustable mufflers that I hope will give me a nicer sound than the glasspacks I have now. The description sounds promising particularly this comment;
"Very Quiet And Nice Sounding Muffler When You Rev It. No Cheap Rattle Can Here!!"
It is also 4" in diameter which is an inch smaller than the glasspacks and should fit nicely in the rear corners of the car. If it sounds anything like the car in the following link or better I would be quite pleased with it; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yv3qJXOgb6Q
I also like the tuning option and ability to remove the silencer altogether to simulate near open exhaust to hear the turbos better.
Do you have audio/video of your engine running yet?
[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 10-11-2008).]
i could get one but it woldent represent all the work because the intercooler piping is now out of the car and so that would affect the sound of the video- plus i wouldent rev much untill i get it all together and tuned..stay tunned because the dyno is the 25th in this month. and you can bet your ass that there will be video. i used a cherrybomb but its not a glass-pack its one of ther new ones has a single baffle that works through fluid-dynamics to help pull the exhaust through. it has a nice rumble at idle ant sounds good opened up to.
[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 10-11-2008).]
update might have to put off dyno. the company i bought the clamps from sent me the wrong ones now i got to wait even longer and if i cant get the rite one then i will have to put off the dyno untill then. im sooooo *&^%*&*(%&#%$ MAD errrrr
update might have to put off dyno. the company i bought the clamps from sent me the wrong ones now i got to wait even longer and if i cant get the rite one then i will have to put off the dyno untill then. im sooooo *&^%*&*(%&#%$ MAD errrrr
You may be able to find something locally at a hose/line company, in Tampa we have Amazon hose and they sell silicone tubing at a reasonable price that is actually more durable (used on trucks) than the stuff I've purchased online at what I thought was a really good price. They also modified my A/C hose to connect to the new style A/C compressor.
got some drilled and slotted rotors and cobomet brake pads they look good will install them next week on monday still waiting on the tune due to weather.
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02:09 AM
Dec 10th, 2008
blkpearl Member
Posts: 367 From: SanDog,CA,US Registered: Oct 2004
sorry no update the weather has taken a turn for the worse (to cold) so it would be a bad time for tunning. how ever i did put drilled and slotted rotors on, and corbomet brake pads in as well as rebuilt the calipers.
hello every one the weather is getting nicer and my pockets have cash so i should be getting the fiero dyno tuned here soon. keep your fingers crossed. and wish me luck
[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 04-29-2009).]
Well the car is now mine! Financial troubles never help with a project. Anyway I am very excited about what has been done to this car and hope to continue the tuning process and really finish it off.
I have not seen the car yet... but my stepdad was very impressed and I will pick the car up next week when I get home from school.
What better way to spend your insurance settlement from your own poor fiero than on another one! (and a monster at that)
First thing on the list is installation of my 12 inch corvette brakes under my 17 inch TSW trackstars. Then maybe an 88 rear cradle I had saved for my car...
this car has been sold i no longer own. kaput gone vanished never tuned. sorry
the altanator went out the day i took it to get dynoed. sold the car after that. im done with fieros im gonna stay with harleys and crotch-rockets and my B-F truck. im going to give the guy, i sold the car to this acount, so hopfully he will continue for the sake of all of you. fairwell and good bye. half of you were asome.
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08:03 PM
blkpearl Member
Posts: 367 From: SanDog,CA,US Registered: Oct 2004
I will be picking the car up on thursday, Im really stoked to check it out. The work looks to be great and It'll sure be a fun build. I have a few plans for it.
First up is my corvette brakes - coming off my car that recently got totaled by a crown vic. then 88 rear cradle that I bought for my car as well. Get the car running well enough to drive it this summer then I will tune it at school next year on our brand new 4-wheel mustang dyno. Never worked with turbos or boost but it sure is never too late to start!
Ill keep everyone updated and Im sure Ill need plenty of help.
Thanks
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03:08 AM
Sep 14th, 2009
thedrue Member
Posts: 1104 From: Vancouver, WA USA Registered: Feb 2009
Well, I finally got around to updating this thread. The car has changed a lot this summer. Now I know many might not like it but the car has been converted to a wingless formula from the GT. I like this look better and think it really brings the car together.
The corvette brakes are installed and working great, but with the aggressive drop in the front I get some tire rub under breaking... still working on that.
I am just finishing up a body-off paint job with GM torch red and a black top. I am really excited about it.
The car is really coming together and I welcome everyones input as I finish things up.
In a couple weeks I will be at school and starting the tuning process, I hope that can go well as I am not totally sure where to start.
Well things are coming together and I have learned how to post pictures in the comment itself so Ill put a couple more up. The car is almost totally together and its a good thing too since I move back to college on Friday. Can't wait to get this thing on the dyno and get it running right!
thats me installing my freshly painted rocker panels
driving her to the paintshop one last time to have the trim all painted. That 3.4 turbo goes like stink and its not even tuned very well!
she waits anxiously for the trim to be finished. ( I gotta color correct that red!)
I will post some finished exterior pictures tomorrow after I install all the new trim.
