I read this today and all I can say is WOW!!!!
Some good info in an article by noted Fiero author Gary Witzenburg:
The look and sound of drag racing is changing. Once it was territory dominated strictly by Mountain Motor V-8s stuffed into domestic sheetmetal. But the latest dragsters sport compacts, migrating from the street to the strip thanks to the National Hot Rod Association's (NHRA) Summit Sport Compact Race Series.
Power adders like high-pressure turbochargers and nitrous oxide have allowed some diminutive four- and six-cylinder import cars to run the quarter-mile in the high six-second territory at just over 200 miles an hour - performances normally turned in by 500-cubic-inch V-8 pro stock cars.
Until this season, domestic manufacturers (with the exception of a few privateers) have been noticeably absent in the sport compact staging lanes. That changed this year when General Motors decided to field a two-car factory backed team at all 10 NHRA sport compact events.
The GM racing sport compact team features a Chevrolet Cavalier driven by Nelson Hoyos and a Pontiac Sunfire shoed by Marty Ladwig. Powered by the newly developed Ecotec 2.0 liter factory race engine, both cars seem to violate two time-honored cardinal rules of drag racing; there is no replacement for displacement and no substitute for cubic inches. Remember that the Ecotec in its stock form puts out 140 horsepower, respectable but not earth-shattering performance for the 2003 Cavalier, Sunfire, ION and VUE in the U.S. What it lacks in displacement it makes up in structural integrity and lightweight design, tipping the scales at around 350 pounds for a complete stock engine. That's a good starting point for someone looking to build power, according to Fred Simmonds, GM's drag racing marketing manager. "It's got all the things a hot rodder would like - from size, weight, and the strength to build power with reliability."

But how did GM find more than 1000 ponies with just four cylinders?
The main component of the GM Ecotech race engine is the same aluminum block that can be found living in stock '03 J-bodies and Saturn's ION and VUE. Manufactured with a lost-foam casting process that results in increased strength and decreased weight, the Ecotec in stock form uses aluminum cylinder sleeves.
Race preparation basically involves just two modifications - switching to stainless steel cylinder liners and the use of aftermarket main and head studs. So far the blocks have exceeded GM's technical director for drag racing Russ O'Blenes expectations. "We have blocks with probably 150 to 200 passes on them," he says. "We have had no structural failures to date."

The results show that that the Ecotec engine has a very bright future. I haven't done an Ecotec swap one but it sure is getting tempting. From what I read building this lightweight powerplant to 300 horsepower is easily done.
Full story is at: http://www.thecarconnection...0_HP.S247.A5482.html

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87GT - with 3800SC Series III engine, 4T65eHD
87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

Just found this run posted online for a pro FWD Ecotech powered Cobalt driven by Marty Ladwid

2007 best elapsed time: 7.173 seconds (Englishtown/NHRA)

2007 best speed: 201.55 mph (Englishtown/NHRA)

http://tunersource.gmblogs....-Racing/marty-ladwig

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87GT - with 3800SC Series III engine, 4T65eHD
87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

number of race teams running 3800 s2's = 0.....

These are not street cars running 1000 HP btw.

First off, when it comes to 'relaible power' race-only 1/4 mile engines are not judged by the same standard as say street engines. WHereas they push them much higher because they will change things like bearings with just a few runs on them. They also only have to put out max power for secounds. We had over 550HP @ around 13k rpm from an MR2 1.8 that was a street engine. I dont think we could have kept a head gasket (ring actually) on it for anything near 1000HP.

The message here that seems to be getting lost is that of course you won't be able to build a 1000 HP Ecotech for the street. You won't do it with any other engine either . What this story illustates is that small displacement standard production engines can now be modified to make gobs of horsepower and stay together

[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 04-28-2008).]

what do you mean "now"? Back in the 70's formula one cars with seriously small displacement engines developed some outrageous numbers. In fact, they made so much power (with turbos) they formula one outlawed them.

the bucik grand national is a prime example of high horse power that is street able, do a little digging and you'll find a lot of those guys running in the 9's in the 1/4 and still street driving them. they just pull some of the boost out and run 93 octane. thought i think that it would be harder to do with the fiero just because of pluming the intercooler that would be needed to safely make that kind of power.

Thanks to Dennis for the links and the information. I appreciate your posting this as I keep wavering between a bigger displacement engine and the Ecotec. I keep forgetting that, if I wanted to, I could build a small fire-breathing dragon out of the Eco and still have a lot of fun.

... and the pendulum swings back toward the Ecotec once more...

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Kendall (Icelander) Whitlatch
'85 Fiero 2M4 - 5spd Isuzu
'67 LeMans/GTO clone 6.5 litre TH400
All the rest aren't Pontiacs, so what does it matter?

GM sells all the parts to build it too. How neat is that?

Somebody posted the "recipe" for different power levels on the ecotec.

307lbs with accessories for an N/A ecotec. Add about 20lbs for a SC Ecotec.

It will be an Ecotec for me...it's just a matter time!

I was bouncing between a 3.4 turbo and an Ecotec. The Ecotec is looking more and more tempting.

[This message has been edited by Macs86GT (edited 04-28-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: You won't do it with any other engine either .

I beg to differ.

[This message has been edited by AutoTech (edited 04-29-2008).]

Those are some pretty impressive numbers. I would love to see how a properly setup Ecotec runs in a Fiero. Obviously the Ecotec 5sd Fiero I drove must not have been done right. As I previously posted it was not much if any faster than my built 2.9 4spd Fiero, and my simple 4.9 would wax it. Check out http://vettetube.com/ they have some pretty neat Twin Turbo Corvettes' running full interiors pump gas drivable at lower boost settings, however drive it to the track run a 9 or even an 8 second pass. Making 1200hp from 427ci motors. Sure they make less power per cubic inch than an Ecotec, however having a larger motor making the same power creates less strain and more usable engines.

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85GT,93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Factory Stock.

The Ecotec's secret is how incredibly strong the design is. Just like adding chrome moly H beam rods and forged pistons doesn't add any power (aside from changes in compression ratio or rod to stroke ratio, if you want to be technical), though it lays the path for durability at higher than stock output.

I think that it would be entirely feasible to have a ~500HP boosted ecotec for street use. There are numerous Hondas and DSM's that are capable of 10's (and much faster) that are daily driven.

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: The message here that seems to be getting lost is that of course you won't be able to build a 1000 HP Ecotech for the street. You won't do it with any other engine either . What this story illustates is that small displacement standard production engines can now be modified to make gobs of horsepower and stay together

Won't be able to do it with any other engine??
First, The 1000hp Ecotec is a race built turbo engine on methanol fuel. Back in the 80's the SD4 on methanol normally aspirated was running over 350hp. So add a turbo and 20 years of technology advancemant and 1000hp is possible. It may be a stock production block, But I doubt much else is "stock".

Second, Drag Race engines are not "relaible" for the street. Many are taken apart and put back together between runs. "Reliable" race engines like the F1 and NASCAR engines are even disassembled after every race.

Third, While it is impressive that the Ecotec is using all the latest technology to produce high horsepower in racing form, The same can be said for other engines. Nelson Racing has a 4.3L V-6 drag race engine running around 1800hp, Supercharged V-8's on nitromethane (top fuel dragsters) are making 7000 to 8000 hp.


Finally, Many production engines have been able to make gobs of power. The twin-turbo Supra's in a street car can get 800-1000hp. I am not saying that 1000hp from an Ecotec isn't impressive, But the a full race engine on methanol is no more reliable than any other race engine and is not reliable enough for street useage.

BTW ~ Ecotec racing engines were pushing 772 hp back in 2003 and hit the 1000 hp mark in 2005. Who knows maybe next year they get 1200hp.

Though wouldn't it be possible to build one to reliably run on the street at around the 350 to 400 hp range?

But the beauty of this program is it showcases the strength of the platform. A high horse street build shouldn't be a problem. Not 1000 HP, but certainly 300+ would be easy. Heck, you can get 260HP stock in one now.

My only complaint is that for a small displacement 4 cylinder engine, it's awfully thirsty. A stock 2.0L GXP is rated at 19 city / 28 highway. That's not far off from my Trans Am's rating. In a Fiero, I'd almost expect a stock 3800SC to get better mileage than a stock 2.0 turbo.

I have to say that this genuinely redefines the term "4 Banger!"

quote Originally posted by Formula88: But the beauty of this program is it showcases the strength of the platform. A high horse street build shouldn't be a problem. Not 1000 HP, but certainly 300+ would be easy. Heck, you can get 260HP stock in one now. My only complaint is that for a small displacement 4 cylinder engine, it's awfully thirsty. A stock 2.0L GXP is rated at 19 city / 28 highway. That's not far off from my Trans Am's rating. In a Fiero, I'd almost expect a stock 3800SC to get better mileage than a stock 2.0 turbo.

Yes 1000 H or 500 HP per liter would clearly illustrate that the Ecotec has a rock solid bottom end. The stock crank and block apparently can take high power levels.
I don't believe that anyone has built a modified Ecotec and swapped it into a Fiero yet. I believe that someone did swap in a supercharged Ecotec (Saturn Ion, Pontiac Solstice) but we haven't seen too many driving reports. GM offers all the parts that you'll need to get the power up so 300- 400 streetable HP shouldn't be all that hard to achieve, plus the engine is LIGHT! As for mileage - a 2.2L high efficiency engine shouldn't be all that gas hungry and if the figure is 28MPG hwy that's really pretty decent.
Looking in an engine compartment and seeing a tiny 2.2L (125 cubic inches of displacement) may not be awe inspiring but the Ecotech offers performance potential with factory support far beyond that of many swap choices. I own a 3800SC Fiero and don't own an Ecotec as yet. However, I am absolutely amazed at what this engine can achieve.

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87GT - with 3800SC Series III engine, 4T65eHD
87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

I dont know that the technical directors amazement that they have "150-200" passes on them is what I would deem "reliability" it just means the engine has run for a grand total of probably 30 minutes without exploding yet, and this suprises him. Plus as noted above, these engines are essentially rebuilt every few runs.

Its nothing new for someone to push insane numbers out of small engines, I always say, anything can be done with enough money, when you have 1000 people, or heck even 10 people in this case doing it, then its something to talk about, but one gigantic corporation sponsoring one team thats making a couple of cars, thats not proof, its just an example that anything can be done with enough money.

Perhaps something else was implied in this thread, but the reliability of the engine was in regards to drag racing. You have to view it from that perspective.

Granted, I'd rather make the same power or even less, on a larger displacement engine and have a way more usable power band.

That article is off a bit.

Im on my second Ecotec Engine for my fiero, using a LE5 (2.4L SS ecotec NON supercharged) bottom end and using the 2.2L L61 head.

Stock you can take it up to 270 or 280hp without issues.

Rods Snap at 280.

Im not sure past that but GM has a build book (not with me right now) that takes the ecotec up to 1400hp. Look it up on ebay.

Issue with the Ecotec in stock form is the piston ringlands. I blew 3 of them on the stock fuel pump, Ecotecs need over 65psi of fuel pressure. I chanced it and lost
With the 3 broken ringlands I had compression over 200psi in each cylinder and achieved a 15.4@89, but that was shifting early as it leaned out drastically around 5400rpms according to megasquirt.

I believe with the LE5 bottom end and the L61 head and the bolt on modifications I have I should be right around 200hp with it.

http://www.turbomagazine.co...r_integra/index.html


My turbo is bigger then ur turbo

quote Originally posted by ducattiman: http://www.turbomagazine.co...r_integra/index.html My turbo is bigger then ur turbo

Yeah but thats like a 4.0L 4 cylinder, 286ci either way thats insane!

HCI magazine feb 07 . 9 sec street driveable cobalt by jason whitfield .this is a candy apple red car that has been to a lot of shows and was sponsored by gm .check out the whitfield racing website .
the weak link in the 2.2 is the powderd metal con rods .under NOS abuse they did break at 280 hp .but turbo cars have handled 350 hp without breaking , because turbos dont hammer like NOS does .
i am using HP tuners to slowly get up to 250 hp .i also have an air to air inter cooler and water meth injection , and a 6:1 vortech FMU .my basic motor is stock , the turbo is remote mounted where the bottom of the trunk used to be .getting the turbo (big 16g ) to work right has been a challenge but this is my toy car and it has been fun.

quote Originally posted by ducattiman: http://www.turbomagazine.co...r_integra/index.html My turbo is bigger then ur turbo

That doesn't look like a stock block.



It looks like it was machined out of a solid block of aluminum

That doesn't look like a stock block.



It looks like it was machined out of a solid block of aluminum[/QUOTE]

Most top fuel engines are made out of billet, they have no water passages in them since they only run for a matter of seconds. and as has been stated they are completely torn down after every run.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: That doesn't look like a stock block. It looks like it was machined out of a solid block of aluminum

Yeah that's not the Ecotec, that's some custom block for an "Integra"-bodied funny car.

GM Prods Ecotec to 1000 HP

Written by TCC Team
Monday, November 4, 2002 at 1:38AM

Aside from the “why,” the question is, how?
by Fred Staab

The look and sound of drag racing is changing. Once it was territory dominated strictly by Mountain Motor V-8s stuffed into domestic sheetmetal. But the latest dragsters sport compacts, migrating from the street to the strip thanks to the National Hot Rod Association's (NHRA) Summit Sport Compact Race Series.

With plentiful performance parts available, Honda has become the dominant player in front-wheel drive quarter-mile action, with Acura, Mazda, Mitsubishi and Toyota also making inroads. Power adders like high-pressure turbochargers and massive inoculations of nitrous oxide have allowed some diminutive four- and six-cylinder import cars to run the quarter-mile in the high six-second territory at just over 200 miles an hour - performances normally turned in by 500-cubic-inch V-8 pro stock cars.

Drag duo

Until this season, domestic manufacturers (with the exception of a few privateers) have been noticeably absent in the sport compact staging lanes. That changed this year when General Motors decided to field a two-car factory backed team at all 10 NHRA sport compact events.

The GM racing sport compact team features a Chevrolet Cavalier driven by Nelson Hoyos and a Pontiac Sunfire shoed by Marty Ladwig. Powered by the newly developed Ecotec 2.0 liter factory race engine, both cars seem to violate two time-honored cardinal rules of drag racing; there is no replacement for displacement and no substitute for cubic inches.

Remember that the Ecotec in its stock form puts out 140 horsepower, respectable but not earth-shattering performance for the 2003 Cavalier, Sunfire, ION and VUE in the U.S. What it lacks in displacement it makes up in structural integrity and lightweight design, tipping the scales at around 350 pounds for a complete stock engine. That's a good starting point for someone looking to build power, according to Fred Simmonds, GM's drag racing marketing manager. "It's got all the things a hot rodder would like - from size, weight, and the strength to build power with reliability."

Quest for firepower

But how did GM find more than 1000 ponies with just four cylinders?

The main component of the GM Ecotech race engine is the same aluminum block that can be found living in stock '03 J-bodies and Saturn's ION and VUE. Manufactured with a lost-foam casting process that results in increased strength and decreased weight, the Ecotec in stock form uses aluminum cylinder sleeves.

Race preparation basically involves just two modifications - switching to stainless steel cylinder liners and the use of aftermarket main and head studs. So far the blocks have exceeded GM's technical director for drag racing Russ O'Blenes expectations. "We have blocks with probably 150 to 200 passes on them," he says. "We have had no structural failures to date."

All components in the engine are designed to live in the hostile 9700-rpm racing environment. That means this Ecotec turns 4000 more revs than the stock version. That astronomic engine speed called for a slight reduction in displacement from 2.2 to 2.0 liters, to limit piston speed to manageable velocities. In addition, stock balance shafts that spin at twice engine speed are honed from 4130 steel to survive 20,000-rpm racing launches.

In order to create the 1000-plus horsepower, GM called on two high-performance principles: mass quantities of fuel and air. A lightly tweaked stock head casting with aftermarket stainless valves mounted gulps the atmosphere through a custom fabricated aluminum intake manifold. Eight fuel injectors spray a methanol fuel fog back to the cylinders. "At 1000 horsepower, we run about 1200 POUNDS an hour of fuel through the motor, so four nozzles were just not enough," says O'Blenes. GM dug into its parts bin for the throttle body selecting a stock unit from a 5.3-liter V-8 GM truck. Ignition is handled by an off-the-shelf aftermarket MSD 7 system designed for a small-block Chevy.

But the biggest power adder of them all comes in the form of a quick spool up eight-inch diameter T4 Turbo charger provided by Innovative Turbo Systems. Pressurizing this 2.0-liter engine, the Turbo, with inlet air chilled by an ice-water-filled intercooler, squeezes 40 pounds of boost into the cylinders. The result is big-block race V-8 power without the displacement or speed-robbing weight.

Selling the package

Far from a one-off factory piece, the Chevrolet Ecotec 2.0-liter race engine was designed to be recreated by ambitious sport compact racers, according to GM's O'Blenes.

"What is really exciting is we have put a part number on every piece GM developed for the race program. You can buy a completely race prepared block, a fully CNC ported cylinder head, crank rods, intake manifold," he says. "We try to make sure anything we learned, we make available to the public."

If a 1000-horsepower motor sounds a bit too extreme, GM Performance offers streetable sport compact performance at lower levels. In past years, a lack of go-fast parts availability has eliminated GM vehicles from the minds of the sport-compact crowd. Dan Garrison, Late Model Product Specialist for GM Performance parts, knows the General has to play catch up in the sport compact area. "I do not feel the youth market of today looks to GM as the natural choice," he says. "The car buyers don't feel that GM cares about them and this is our intent to say 'Yeah, we do.'"

Garrison often can be found racing a Quad 4-powered Cavalier mounted with a

GM Performance Parts supercharger kit. The blower takes the 2.4-liter Quad 4 to 190 horsepower.

At SEMA, GM Performance Parts intends to fatten up the number of pages and part numbers to its Performance Parts sport compact section. Look for the addition of several power-adding kits for the stock Ecotec with turbo, supercharger and naturally aspirated options all in play, plus a little something to bring the Pontiac Vibe into the street performance category.

For Simmonds, the sport compact program can be boiled down to an old chestnut: race on Sunday, sell on Monday. "We need to sell small cars; we haven't done a very good job of that historically. This gives us the opportunity to showcase the Ecotec engine, and also let these import guys know we are in this very seriously to win in the marketplace."

O'Blenes, who oversaw the development of the racing Ecotec, sees a little bit of history repeating itself. "Since 1955, the small-block Chevy has proven its versatility, durability and performance potential. The Ecotec engine has all the basic mechanical components to repeat that feat."

*******************************************************************************

http://www.solsticeforum.co...-whp-pump-gas-44510/
http://www.everythingdrift....view&id=40&Itemid=32

New to the site , and am very interested in useing the 2.2 ecoteck swap in Fiero. I maybe asking a question that has already been ans. Is there someone that builds a 2.2 with all the mods in the 350hp to 450hp range that can be purchaged turn-key?
Thank-You

These articles are OLD. Look at the dates........2002.

The first GM racing blocks were, indeed, billet aluminum and were prototypes for what has come later. Now you can buy the 88958630 Racing Block with steel liners and 3.4" bore. The liners are machined for O rings and special head gaskets. There are two "racing" versions of the ecotec head, one a full on race and the other a "street" version. Both are CNC ported. The full on head is grooved for O rings and takes a special head gasket. The "street" version is available to fit stock blocks and stock head gaskets, 2.2L only. There is a billet steel crank available with a 3.505" reduced stroke for high rpm use and with the race block it makes exactly a 2.0L motor. You can buy cam "blanks" and send them to your cam grinder for the profile of your choice or there are a couple of performance grinds available from GM. Billet rods are available from GM, PN 88958618, that work only with the Billet crank.

As far as "streetable", really the highest horsepower, practical example is GM's stage 3 kit for the Cobalt SS. It takes the engine to 260 HP on 100 octane racing fuel. The PCM is calibrated for a maximum of a 50 shot of nitrous if you want it, so you could take it to 310 HP with nitrous and all with GM factory parts and no internal engine changes. That is also through the stock Cobalt exhaust system, although it is not street legal emissions wise. To do that you have to stay with the Stage 2 kit that limits you to 245 HP.

In full race trim, with FACTORY parts, you're looking at about 600 semi-reliable HP, but certainly not streetable.

I like the Ecotec, it's a neat little motor, but no matter what you do to it, it's still going to sound like a vacuum cleaner. A very fast vacuum cleaner, but still a vacuum cleaner.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by jstricker: These articles are OLD. Look at the dates........2002. The first GM racing blocks were, indeed, billet aluminum and were prototypes for what has come later. Now you can buy the 88958630 Racing Block with steel liners and 3.4" bore. The liners are machined for O rings and special head gaskets. There are two "racing" versions of the ecotec head, one a full on race and the other a "street" version. Both are CNC ported. The full on head is grooved for O rings and takes a special head gasket. The "street" version is available to fit stock blocks and stock head gaskets, 2.2L only. There is a billet steel crank available with a 3.505" reduced stroke for high rpm use and with the race block it makes exactly a 2.0L motor. You can buy cam "blanks" and send them to your cam grinder for the profile of your choice or there are a couple of performance grinds available from GM. Billet rods are available from GM, PN 88958618, that work only with the Billet crank. As far as "streetable", really the highest horsepower, practical example is GM's stage 3 kit for the Cobalt SS. It takes the engine to 260 HP on 100 octane racing fuel. The PCM is calibrated for a maximum of a 50 shot of nitrous if you want it, so you could take it to 310 HP with nitrous and all with GM factory parts and no internal engine changes. That is also through the stock Cobalt exhaust system, although it is not street legal emissions wise. To do that you have to stay with the Stage 2 kit that limits you to 245 HP. In full race trim, with FACTORY parts, you're looking at about 600 semi-reliable HP, but certainly not streetable. I like the Ecotec, it's a neat little motor, but no matter what you do to it, it's still going to sound like a vacuum cleaner. A very fast vacuum cleaner, but still a vacuum cleaner. John Stricker

Im not going to debate the sound of em since thats personal opinion.

But ive RODE in a streetable 550whp ecotec. You obviously knew it wasnt 'normal' but it cruised and acted good, of course until you mashed the gas lol.

Im my opinion the sound of the 3800 sounds like crap, the supercharger fixes that if you can make it whine loud enough. I cant say Im a fan of v8s anymore because the trend around here is every 1500 mid 90s chevy truck has to cut there exhaust off and im just plan sick of them lol. But the sound of a big block is just awesome.

the car i mentioned above is a streetable 1000 hp 2.2 litre ecotec .the block is stock .and stock ecotec's do not have "aluminum " sleeves , they have cast iron sleeves .4 cylinder 1000 hp street driven cars are not a new thing .and they dont run on nitro or alcohol or 100 octane race fuel .they run on premium pump gas .check out sport compact car july 2007 , 5 street driven cars that all have close to 1000 hp .one of these cars (a lesser light at only 744 hp ) is used to deliver pizzas .

"Streetable" 400 hp per liter? Not. Driven on the street once in a blue moon? Maybe. That's not streetable, there is a difference. Keep on reading "Import Tuner" and "Sport Compact Car", they never exaggerate and always check their facts..........

Don't get me wrong, the power outputs of the 4 cyl, 16 valve, dohc engines boosted beyond recognition is remarkable, but to get those power levels you have to wind them very, very tight and there's no low end left after they're cammed for that.

Tell you what, buy one, build it to 1,000 hp, then drive it to show me here in KS where we'll dyno it, and I'll buy it from you on the spot (if it still runs) for 1.5 times what it cost you. No trailers allowed. I'm not worried. Built way to many race cars and race engines to be worried about you showing up with one that meets the specs.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by wftb: the car i mentioned above is a streetable 1000 hp 2.2 litre ecotec .the block is stock .and stock ecotec's do not have "aluminum " sleeves , they have cast iron sleeves .4 cylinder 1000 hp street driven cars are not a new thing .and they dont run on nitro or alcohol or 100 octane race fuel .they run on premium pump gas .check out sport compact car july 2007 , 5 street driven cars that all have close to 1000 hp .one of these cars (a lesser light at only 744 hp ) is used to deliver pizzas .

the reason they are streetable is because they dont cam them out .they build them to run on high boost levels(30 psi+) and turn it down electronically for the street .which costs a lot of money just for the controls , not to mention beefed up internals .

Right. They don't need those rpm's from those cams to make 1,000 hp out of 2.2 liters. 30 psi? Try 3 bar, or more. The Evo that ran over 210 in the mile at SORC last year was running close to 4 bar boost and 10.200 rpm. He was making 1100 hp. Remember too that the less rpm you run to make a given hp, the more torque that takes, which means one of two things, longer stroke or higher cylinder pressures, which make more stress on the pistons, block, rods, and crank.

Don't believe everything you read, there is no free lunch.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by wftb: the reason they are streetable is because they dont cam them out .they build them to run on high boost levels(30 psi+) and turn it down electronically for the street .which costs a lot of money just for the controls , not to mention beefed up internals .

I must lean towards what John is saying. I don't think it possible to build a streetable 10000HP engine, especially one with four cylinders. These high efficiency mini-engines make horsepower at extreme RPM levels. At the bottom end where street driving is done torque will be poor.
The Ecotec is an engineering achievement that GM should be proud of but we don't have to focus on an extreme example to set our goals on. If an Ecotech Fiero swap can provide 260HP streetable horsepower ( achieveable IMO) that should make the swap very attractive. Go to the Solstice and Saturn ION forums to see what good things are being done with the Eaton Supercharged Ecotec.

------------------
87GT - with 3800SC Series III engine, 4T65eHD
87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

it is not my goal to have a 1000 hp ecotec or other 4 cylinder .the fact that streetable cars with 1000hp can and are being built is amazing to me .if you want to read the article ,go to Sport Compact Car 's website and do a search for "the Grand Proposition " .some of the dyno runs were in florida .John Malinowsky drove his car down from conecticut .he had some welds let go on his tubular exhaust manifold on the way down , but still made the trip without a problem .they rewelded the manifold and put the car on the dyno and pulled 928 wheel hp .
as for the supercharged 2.0 engine , i am no longer interested .as far i know i have the only running turbocharged 2.2 ecotec powered fiero .my boost is set at 8 psi and right now my data indicates about 200 whp .i have the right equipment installed to run 250+ whp .i have little more tuning to be done to the ECM and then i am going to slowly move up to 12 psi boost .the upper limit for a stock 2.2 like mine is around 350 hp .the stock intake splits at 20 psi and the stock head gasket according to the build book is good for 350 hp .and everyone knows that is the limit for the rods . avoiding damage to the ring lands by tuning out all my KR before i turn up the boost is what i am doing now .there are two spots on my intake and charge pipe that are contacting the engine that i need to rubber isolate to get rid of some false KR readings .the nearest dyno is 100 miles away in london ont .i hope to get down there soon .
86 fiero gt
2.2 ecotec with f23 5 speed from a 2003 cavalier
snow water meth injection
air to air intercooler
34 lb injectors
big 16g turbo (WRX spec) remote mounted
HP tuners MPVI Pro VCM Suite version 2.2.0

quote Originally posted by wftb: it is not my goal to have a 1000 hp ecotec or other 4 cylinder .the fact that streetable cars with 1000hp can and are being built is amazing to me .if you want to read the article ,go to Sport Compact Car 's website and do a search for "the Grand Proposition " .some of the dyno runs were in florida .John Malinowsky drove his car down from conecticut .he had some welds let go on his tubular exhaust manifold on the way down , but still made the trip without a problem .they rewelded the manifold and put the car on the dyno and pulled 928 wheel hp . as for the supercharged 2.0 engine , i am no longer interested .as far i know i have the only running turbocharged 2.2 ecotec powered fiero .my boost is set at 8 psi and right now my data indicates about 200 whp .i have the right equipment installed to run 250+ whp .i have little more tuning to be done to the ECM and then i am going to slowly move up to 12 psi boost .the upper limit for a stock 2.2 like mine is around 350 hp .the stock intake splits at 20 psi and the stock head gasket according to the build book is good for 350 hp .and everyone knows that is the limit for the rods . avoiding damage to the ring lands by tuning out all my KR before i turn up the boost is what i am doing now .there are two spots on my intake and charge pipe that are contacting the engine that i need to rubber isolate to get rid of some false KR readings .the nearest dyno is 100 miles away in london ont .i hope to get down there soon . 86 fiero gt 2.2 ecotec with f23 5 speed from a 2003 cavalier snow water meth injection air to air intercooler 34 lb injectors big 16g turbo (WRX spec) remote mounted HP tuners MPVI Pro VCM Suite version 2.2.0

Indeed that guy drove his car 24 hours before going on the dyno to discover 926 Horsepower, Reading further This car must always use race gasoline and reading further still, the engine blew apart a bit later after the dyno run. Not to argue the point that a 1000HP engine can be built for street use, it just doesn't seem practical or reliable. As for your Ecotec' it sounds like you have a very good combo that will enable you to reach your goal. What seems puzzling is your combination of an intercooler and water/alky injection.

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87GT - with 3800SC Series III engine, 4T65eHD
87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

i talked to the Hahn racecraft people because i liked their port fueler system and he told me he ran both in his own car .fieroturbo plans to run an air to air where the cat used to be and i found one that would fit and it was on sale .one problem with a turbo fiero no matter what engine you are running is the tubing is always exposed to heat .you can never have too much charge cooling .i also use a 6:1 vortech FMU and a 100 psi holly in line fuel pump .
the failure of that motor was caused by a faulty throttle position sensor .when you run on the edge , lots of common things can bite you in the arse .