Ok so here is the situation. I have a 2000 Grand Am GT that has blew another tranny and i am not willing to spend the money to put another one in. Now i have been using my 87 Fiero GT as my DD but the 2.8 just cratered on me and now i am left with out a vehicle.

I am curious if any who has done a 3400 swap could give me detailed instructions on the swap, what parts are needed what custom work how long i should expect it to take. ect. I have basic knowledge on engines i have swapped heads and other small stuff but never swaped an engine, so this will be a new experiance. I might just end up putting another 2.8 in the fiero for ease, But if you guys think I can put that 3400 in with a little help then that will be the route i take. I have about 2 months to complete this. I can get access to a hoist and most tools needed. I just need a good walk through and list of parts. So everything would go smoothly. I do have a few friends that are mechanics also, so they can also aid me in this. All input greatly appreciated.

I did the swap to a 5speed. The mounts were wcf poly with 88v6 brackets and custom dogbone. pcmforless.com handled the computer disabeling the antitheft and auto trans stuff. used a 2001 alero computer. hoses were off the shelf autozone pieces. throttle cable was spliced usign a fiero cable and 3400 cable. pretty easy swap really.

3500 here.... read my post on 60degreev6.com. got more questions? pm me

I did the swap. get a 7730 ecm from a junk yard and have Ryan from sinisterperformance burn you a chip. He also has wiring diagrams on his website. Ryan was great to work with and very helpful! Use your 2.8 wiring harness and splice the connectors from the grand am. build dog bone mount, water lines, gas lines, 88 flywheel, grind small part of engine so the engine mount works, make power steering pulley, and exhaust. basically it is just a lot of wire splicing and re-pinning but is really all do able. It was my first car project. Now i have great power and 35 mpg. plus the engine is lighter than the 2.8, also it sounds great...and in my opinion much better than the Buick 90 degree v6
a cheap, easy, swap for a good all around engine.
These websites will help a lot
http://60degreev6.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=96
http://www.v6z24.com/jbodyforum/
http://www.domesticcrew.com/

Edit: Happy Ester HE HAS RISEN!

[This message has been edited by LZeppelin513 (edited 03-23-2008).]

OK here is my situation. Let me know if this can be done.

I dont have the time or facilities at the moment to pull the engine out of the GA or the Fiero. So what i have planned is to pay a local shop to swap the engine into the fiero and bolt the craddle back up. Now will i be able to do the rest of the work needed while the engine is in there? I imagine it will be a little more difficult but can it be done?

Also what parts would i need for the shop to do the swap. Just a nutualaly balanced flywheel? I plan on getting a stage 2 clutch as well. Does anyone have any good recomendations in terms of a clutch? What kind of clutch would i need, one for a 2.8L fiero with a 5 speed? Any other input would be great on things i am overlooking.

for them to swap them, your looking at at least $1000 usd, and thats if you find someone who will just swap the engines. dont expect a warranty, and youd better trust them. hell if it were up to me id call a local church or find someone who has a decent parking lot and work on it out side. ive done 3 swaps outside in the snow and freezing rain, determined perople get things done. where there is a will there is a way. ive never had a house with a garage to work on my fiero, and ive done 6 swaps!

you need a flywheel from an 88 fiero or 88-90 chevy 2.8 cavalier, beretta ect.

i used the centerforce dual friction clutch, couldnt be happier. but then again, 6 engines and ive got 3000 miles on the car, cant really talk about long term here, im not there yet

youll need some stuff from darths site for the wiring, its all diagrams, they're free.

I would love to do the swap my self. But even if i do find somewhere to do it, I dont have an engine hoist or anything to pull the 3400 out of the GA. I know the guys at the shop, I do have some trust in them. But what could they screw up if there just pulling the 2.8 and bolting up the 3400?

its not screwing up that you need to worry about, its what theyre going to charge you! just bolting the engine to the cradle and putting the scradle back in is no problem, as long as thats all they are doing.

i bought my lift for $125 from advance. thats alot cheaper than $1000 for a shop to do the same thing your going to do. or ive rented one for $15 a day before. i had it for 10 days, thats was more than i would have paid for a lift, so i bought one

Well i might just go look at buying a lift then. Your right though, its not worth me paying a shop to do it. I do have the know how on dropping an engine, and as for the GA i dont really have to save anything other then the engine so just disconect everything and pull it. The wiring i am still kinda confused on by looking at the spread sheet on gmtuners. But hopefully i can get some guidance. I will order my flywheel and clutch tomorow. Then once those come in i will start the swap. I will go look at an engine hoist and see if i can use the company shop to do this. Thanks for all the advice.

As for the top dogbone mount, Any advice on that?

get rid of it. no need. keep the dog bone and all your 2.8 brakets, ill send you some pics that will help ya.

I recommend keeping your exhisting harness and computer. You already have it and no special tuning is required plus it'll save you from buying a new altenator and fabricating a mount for it.

u can use the factory 3400 alt and bracket. when u get there ill tell ya how to wire the alt.

quote Originally posted by joshua riedl: I recommend keeping your exhisting harness and computer. You already have it and no special tuning is required plus it'll save you from buying a new altenator and fabricating a mount for it.

So your saying i should not get the 7730 ecm? From what i have read it is a better computer and is little modification's to change out, Just switching over some pins and running a few extra wires.

I have decided to get a clutch and flywheel from specclutch.com. Now i know i have to order a 88 fiero flywheel, can i order a 88 stage 2+ clutch aswell or should i order the 87?

Anyone know where i can find a 7730 ecm other then a junkyard.

[This message has been edited by bandit307 (edited 03-23-2008).]

http://car-part.com/

search there for an ecm

I just think that you already have the wiring and computer and all the correct sensors and accessories, you may as well stick with it. It'll cost you $150 to set up the computer from pcmforless and no custom tuning would be necessary. If you look in my chop top thread you'll find a picture of my dogbone mounted on the trans side of the engine. do whatever you want though, it's a good choice of engine either way.

the 7730 ecm will land you better than 35mpg (or at least it should provided the 3400 is in good shape) there is an option called lean cruise mode for the 7730 that darth can have set up for you.

dog bone on the trans side? good idea! im gonna take a gander at mine and see how i could do the same

I think you'll end up spending a lot more than $1k to pay a shop to do something that will be very new to them and when they look at it they'll probably quote you an enormous price in an effort to discourage you. There is a member here that had a run in with a shop requiring a lawsuit to get his car back dealing issues of this nature. For $1k you can sit down and plan then buy all necessary parts and rent a place to at least get the install done if not completed over a 1 month period and have special tools left over for future use or to sell and get some of your money back.

It cost me $20 dollars to have my oil filter by-pass threaded to the proper size to fit the 3900 filter nipple properly, part of that cost was for the tap which they didn't have. Instead of chaulking it up to the cost of doing buisness especially since they kept the tap for future money making opportunities, they past its cost off to me and I told them if I had known that I would have purchased it and performed the modification myself and had the tool in my possession if ever needed to do it again.

The 730 ecm is pretty much a no brainer and it will tie right into your existing wiring harness as has probably already been expressed.

Alright so the 7730 ECM and my clutch and flywheel are on its way. Going to go look at an engine hoist today aswell.

I orders an aluminum flywheel for a 1988 Fiero 2.8 and a stage 2+ clutch for a 1987 Fiero 5 speed from spec clutch.

I will keep everyone updated on the build and any advice along the way much appreciated, Thank you guys.

EDIT: Do they make a gasket for the eng. to trans. Every time i have matted the two in the past i have just used "make a gasket". Is that the norm or does someone offer an actual gasket?

[This message has been edited by bandit307 (edited 03-24-2008).]

there is no need to have any sort of gasket between the engine and trans. ive never used or seen one. as a matter of fact, i keep the flywheel inspection plate remoced on all of my vehicles, never had any sort of issue and it makes checking things out a lot easier....

you can use the fieros stock routed exhaust. you will need some sort of headers and a new y pipe. i have some 3500 manifolds i could sell, i have the two that point down, but with those you WILL need someone to fab up some exhaust

Would i be able to use my 3400 Manifolds? Wont the stock 2.8 exhaust be fairly restrictive. I believe it is only 2" correct? Where as the 3400 comes stock with 2.25" and i have 2.5" cat back on it right now.

Keep in mind i do have a complete 3400 donor car.

How about fuel lines, Any advice on extending them to get them to the right place?

[This message has been edited by bandit307 (edited 03-24-2008).]

For exhaust I used the stock 3400 manis and ran the single out downwards to the smallest magnaflow cat and then split it out to each side and used a chambered bullet style muffler on each side and then ran it out. It works well but is a bit loud. It was cheap to have a shop do because it was so short.

For gas lines i baught 2 strait lines of the correct size and rented a line bender and also a flare tool and bent the lines into shape and ran them arount and over the transmision. It took some time to get it right but wasnt too bad and it works well.

youll need to turn the fuel rail around backwards to get the lines on the pass side.

other than that, he answered that above

Not to hijack, but this could be useful for you too.

quote Originally posted by joshua riedl: I just think that you already have the wiring and computer and all the correct sensors and accessories, you may as well stick with it. It'll cost you $150 to set up the computer from pcmforless and no custom tuning would be necessary. If you look in my chop top thread you'll find a picture of my dogbone mounted on the trans side of the engine. do whatever you want though, it's a good choice of engine either way.

Joshua

I was looking through your chop top thread for that dogbone pic. Nice job with the home chop btw I like it! Anyway is there any way you could get a better pic or two of that dogbone mount? I dont like the way mine sits and am thinking of ways to redo it. Yours looks like it might be the ticket. THanks!
BLake

[This message has been edited by LZeppelin513 (edited 03-25-2008).]

I sold the car to my brother inlaw so pictures would take a while. Not sure when I would get the chance. The trunk mount is solid though to a piece of plate. I didn't feel there was enough room to do poly on both ends. I used sway bar bushings trimmed to fit a piece of tube. A 3/8 inch plate was cut and drilled to mount on the head with 2'' square tubing to hold the dogbone mount.

I got my ECM in, its from a 1988 buick century and the service # is 01227730, I assume this is the one i need correct.

As for updates, I got the engine out of the grand am. Just have to get the Fiero towed to the shop and start dropping the craddle. Still waiting on my clutch and flywheel from spec. Should be here next week. I also have a gasket kit coming for the 3400 since i will have to pull the uim to get at the fuel lines and the lim has that dreaded leak once again, Going to spring the extra cash for the fel-pro gaskets this time.

I will take lots of pictures of the build and try to give my best advice for what i had to overcome on the swap. Stay tuned for updates.

Unless the engine has considerably low mileage You'll want to do the rod and main bearings also.

I will Replace the bearings this winter. Just going to put the engine in for now. I am doing a cam and 3500 top end swap this winter so i will do the bearings and rings then.

Just some updates, The craddle is ready to come out of the Fiero. Just building a dolly for it right now. Still waiting on my clutch and flywheel so that might set me back a few days. But i will tend to the ECM wiring while i wait.

Now since i was getting ready to drop the cradle, that one of my CV Axle boots is ripped. Is there somewhere I can just order a boot kit from?
Also am I going to need an external crank trigger?

Some progress pictures. I will take more tomorrow with the digital camera. These are just with my cell.

[This message has been edited by bandit307 (edited 04-04-2008).]

hang on to that mount thats on the flywheel/oil filter side of the engine. looks like that may be a great mount to weld to the cradle!


your doing good, keep it up

Got the cradle out.

Still waiting on some answers too. If you guys could help me out. I posted a few up above.

Concerned about needing a crank trigger or now. along with a few other questions listed above.

nope you do not need the external crank trigger, just use the factory setup crank sensor, it uses the same connector as a coolant temp sensor. you can tear up your grandam harness and take the connectors

what else did ya need to know

OK, so this is what i have so far. Let me know if i need anything else to complete the swap.

Used 7730 ECM (from a 88 century)
New stage 2+ clutch & Alum. Flywheel (88 Fiero 2.8) from specclutch.com
New flywheel Hardware
New polly cradle mounts & hardware
New full polly kit
New R/H Axle from axlesforless.com (The boot has been ripped for some time now, figured i would just get a new axle instead of a boot kit)

So now I am waiting on parts to come in. Today i plan on separating both transmissions and starting to get my wiring harness transfered over from the 2.8 to the 3400. Also going to try and figure out which pins i have to switch over on the ecm connectors(I will check out the spread sheet at sinister performance again).

Anything else i have to get figured out? Other then fuel lines(im going to flip the fuel rail), coolant hoses, mounts.

Will the PS pump sees up if i remove the reservoir? I assume that the PS fluid lubricates the pump does it not?

I am also looking for somewhere to purchase the fel-pro steel core gasket kit, Anyone know where this can be purchased. My local auto parts store can not seem to find the steel core ones, only the plastic.(i have went through two sets of the plastics, I heard of really good results with the steel) The part # MS98003T

Hey,

I didn't use the original PS pump for my 3400 SFI \ 5 speed swap. If you get an older common pump say off of a 4.9L caddy it will have a bearing in it instead of a sleeve. The pulley is a match, it bolts into place and you can ditch the reservoir. I also ground the pump casting back to reduce it's weight and size. It was quick and easy.

Got the tranny unbolted from the 3400, it actually wasnt as bad as i thought it would be. I believe my clutch and flywheel came in today via ups, but i wasnt home. So i will have to wait till tomorow to find out.

Aslo built a lower engine mount using the stock 2.8 mount with a little cutting as seen below. Now comes the wiring.

I ordered new poly mounts for the cradle but i am not to sure on how to change them out, any advice?

i had to chip away some of the oil pan on the 3500 to make good clearance....

also watch the exhaust pipe under the oil pan...mine was rubbing, but thats with 2.5in pipe.

the lower trans to engine bolt by the cv axle needs to be drilled out, i just filed the botl and used a few washers....it works for me

use locktite on your flywheel bolts...i had a few come loose after getting the car running...a real bummer. 4 hrs later i had it fixed and running agian...not fun tho

see my post on motor mounts

Does anyone have any advice on changing out all the cradle mounts with polly ones?

Clutch and flywheel came in today. Just a couple update pictures.

ive got the aluminum cradle bushings, got the rear installed but not the fronts, ill be doing that tomorrow night. id recomend the alum ones. westcoast fiero, darrell morse, or rodney dickman.

quote Originally posted by merlot566jka: ive got the aluminum cradle bushings, got the rear installed but not the fronts, ill be doing that tomorrow night. id recomend the alum ones. westcoast fiero, darrell morse, or rodney dickman.

I already have the polly's on order though. Will the polly's be decent?

yup. they will eventually squeak on ya and theyre not as good as solid cradle bushings, but a huge improvement over your 20+ year old bushings

BIG UPDATE:

Anyone curious to see what a 3400 looks like in a Fiero?

Well here you go, the wiring is a bit of a mess right now i have to tidy it up and run the harness into the cab. I am waiting on my chip & connectors for my ECM along with a passenger side axle, I was sent the wrong one. Then all I have left to do is run my fuel, coolant lines and brake booster line.















I will take some better pictures with the digital very soon.