I have heard many horror stories about auto service shops not knowing what they are dealing with when confronted with our fieros which usually results in something getting screwed up.

I suppose this is why it has been said "if you are not a do it your selfer, Fieros are not for you"

Well, I do pretty much ALL my own work but I just had the cradle out and swapped a rebuilt duke in my 87. I want to take it up to the alignment shop for a rear end alignment.

Is this a procedure that I should be concerned with giving the shop any special info about? I would be crushed if I found myself having to deal with a mishap due to negligence...

All advice would be much appreciated as I get nervous when leaving my baby in strangers hands...

just make sure they put in on the machine backwards. its the same as a front wheel drive car... and have updated specs.

quote Originally posted by hobodude34: just make sure they put in on the machine backwards. its the same as a front wheel drive car... and have updated specs.

Are you saying I should provide them with updated specs? Where do I acquire these?

Imm having that same problem right now, in finding a shop that can do it. Also, you should have an All wheel alinement done as the Fiero has independent suspension at all 4 wheels.

quote Originally posted by hobodude34: just make sure they put in on the machine backwards. its the same as a front wheel drive car... and have updated specs.

WTF??? Backwards??? come on dude... all it takes is a 4 wheel alignment...simple as that..
Mine has been done numerous times... if something is not right ( bad wheel bearing, ball joint etc..) then yes..they will have problems just like anyone else would.. just go to a shop that does alignments on a daily basis.. not your local backyard garage.. and you won't have any problems..

------------------

'86 Fastback SE 5 spd -'94 HD Electra Glide Cassic -'99 Chevy K-1500 Z-71

Trust no one. Question everyone
The last shop I went to even let me drive it on the machine for them. I think the guy didnt know how to drive a standard and I'm glad he didnt try to learn on mine.

Stay away from the big chains like Pep Boys etc. Most sho[s will not get it right. You need one with a guy that really knows Fieros and mid engine cars. At least thats what I've and luckly I found one that does.

I've had varying experiences with alignments but it's definitely something that needs to be done right on the Fiero. Make sure they are doing a FOUR wheel alignment. I prefer to take it some place where I can at least see the guy working on it, even if that means I have to take it in at the crack of dawn. If you explain why you're paranoid about it and that since it's an old car with lots of 'quirks' They'll understand.
I usually leave instructions on how to operate the hand brake on the seat as well or taped to the steering wheel.

I suggest you make it as easy as possible for them to work on so that means make sure all the adjusting threads/lock nuts on the tie rods are easy to turn. Mine are caked in 20 years of crap so it's gonna be a big cleanup job before it goes in. My rear strut bolts were well seized too so I've replaced all those. Also replace any tie rod ends, ball joints or boots that need it before you take it in. It'd be a waste to have to get it done again because you had to replace a boot that was torn.

------------------
Dave

www.ltlfrari.com

alldata has updated specs. and i call b/s on "its just a 4 wheel aligment" its not the same.. MOST cars do not have casper/camber toein/toeout on the rear wheels.. or heck any ajustment for that matter.. and intill you work in a shop for 5 years doing mechanical work and aligments..

quote Originally posted by hobodude34: alldata has updated specs. and i call b/s on "its just a 4 wheel aligment" its not the same.. MOST cars do not have casper/camber toein/toeout on the rear wheels.. or heck any ajustment for that matter.. and intill you work in a shop for 5 years doing mechanical work and aligments..

thats not true anymore, if you buy a decently made car these days with IRS the rear will be fully adjustable. i just did an 05 grand prix, caster, camber and toe were adjustable in the rear. also if you go to any decent shop with a newer computerized alignment machine the specs are in the machine's computer and are probably updated yearly. alignment wise its no different than any IRS rear wheel drive car (Cobra, GTO, Vette ect.).

and you dont need to pull the car on backwards.

As i said... "most" for some people that cant read. and no its not absolute that you have to pull it on backwards.. its the right way and the better way to do it.

The reason why some folks mention driving the fiero on the alignment machine backwards is because if the shop only had a 2 wheel alignment. (which today all shops have 4 wheel alignment) Those shops that had 2 wheel alignments for cars did just the front. So that said, driving a fiero on backwards was a way to align the back end.
Realistically, all specs that where positive where actually negitive, and vise versa. This was, because the car is on the machine backwards.
I suppose a mechanic could do a decent job but a 4 wheel alignment system is the way to go. Even today, I still have a hard time to have a shop that has done a fiero alignment or correctly. Like said in the above posts, finding someone who has done a "dime a dozen" fieros is better than some old joe doing it without experiance on a 4 wheel machine.

fierogt28

quote Originally posted by hobodude34: As i said... "most" for some people that cant read. and no its not absolute that you have to pull it on backwards.. its the right way and the better way to do it.

I would prefer the drive the car in forwards. It's hard enough getting people to work on a Fiero without having to figure out if they set the toe in or out because the car was on the machine backwards.

Any competent 4 wheel alignment shop should be able to handle it. The only problems are when you have ignorant mechanics who are afraid of the car.

quote Originally posted by hobodude34: alldata has updated specs. and i call b/s on "its just a 4 wheel aligment" its not the same.. MOST cars do not have casper/camber toein/toeout on the rear wheels.. or heck any ajustment for that matter.. and intill you work in a shop for 5 years doing mechanical work and aligments..

Ummmm.. "updated specs" for what?? The last Fiero rolled off the assembly line in 1988... so what needs to be updated? nothing has changed in 20 years...
And yes.. It IS a 4 wheel alignment... what else would you call it.. a 2 wheel alignment X 2? ... lol.. Like you say..Since MOST cars don't have caster/camber - toe-in/toe-out adjustment for the rear wheels... they get a TWO wheel alignment..

The thing that worries me is how to find a competent mechanic while effectively sifting through the ones who will automatically tell you they know how to do their job, and then after you are gone they stand before my car scratching their head.

Aside from the actual alignment, are their other considerations? For example should I point out proper lifting points as I have heard of coolant pipes being crushed.
The reason I was looking to get just a rear alignment is my front has been fine and I plan to do some work on the front in the near future then get it aligned after.

But since I just had the whole rear apart, I need it aligned in the rear so I can drive it. I figure a 4 wheel align would be a waste of $ if I am just going to get the front aligned soon after.

[This message has been edited by perceptionist (edited 11-08-2007).]

I just make sure when calling about an appointment that it is ok to talk with the tech and be allowed to 'watch' closely. Last alignment, I ended up adjusting the camber while he was reading the measurement.

quote Originally posted by kyote: Ummmm.. "updated specs" for what?? The last Fiero rolled off the assembly line in 1988... so what needs to be updated? nothing has changed in 20 years...

88 Fiero alignment specs 20 years ago list power steering for Formulas and GTs and manual steering for coupes. If it's been updated, that should have been corrected.

I am also looking for alignment for my 88 GT. Firestone said that they can do a front end for $70 or $140 for a lifetime alignment. The local Pontiac dealer said they can do it for $80. For 10 dollar difference I will be going with the Pontiac dealer. I feel safer taking my car to GM than to Firestone.

Amen brother. Chances are GM would at least have some idea of what to do with a Fiero.

------------------
1986 SE V6, stock, auto, fastback. GT Trim and Body panels.

I had mine done at a Tires Plus, 4 wheel alignment. I did stay in the waiting area while they worked on it. They did a fine job. My real concern was and it proved true is frozen bolts on the adjustment mechanisms. Plus the fact that if they break one it will be a while getting a replacement. What I did whas tell them that if they have trouble removing something ask me first before they get out the breaker bar. They did and I had them skip one adjustment, it was only marginally out of spec.

So basically your talking about the same kind of caution as having any work done on an older car.

Jon

p/m me and i will give you the specs.

You may want to consider picking up and installing some camber adjusting bolts for the rear struts. Camber bolts have an eccentric washer that assists in adjusting the camber on the rear struts. Most good shops should have some on-hand, but if your car has some already installed, just makes it easier. You can view a picture of the camber adjusting bolts at the Fiero Store.

In locating a shop, You may want to contact other Fiero owners in your area for a shop recommendation. The other way is to talk to people at the shops and listen to their comments. I found a shop for a clutch job by talking to a service manager, and instead of a quick yes we can do the job, there was a pause when I said a clutch job on a Fiero. I received feedback that they had worked on Fieros, and a good explanation on what the job involved. Used the same shop for other cars too.

quote Originally posted by StockGT: You may want to consider picking up and installing some camber adjusting bolts for the rear struts. Camber bolts have an .

You want the bolts from www.NAPAonline.com - PN NCP2643609

www.rockauto.com has the equivalent Spicer unit PN 6161014
http://www.rockauto.com/cat...52,pgname,Suspension





Moog has a kit as well that slightly different.

------------------

3.4L S/C 87 GT www.fierosound.com
2002/2003/2004 World of Wheels Winner &
Multiple IASCA Stereo Award Winner

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 11-08-2007).]

quote Originally posted by fierosound: You want the bolts from www.NAPAonline.com - PN NCP2643609 www.rockauto.com has the equivalent Spicer unit PN 6161014 http://www.rockauto.com/cat...52,pgname,Suspension

im glad you posted that, i had a cam bolt setup on one side of my car and was looking for one for the other side.

OMFG...

I left my Fiero at the GM, Buick, Pontiac service shop at 1pm today for a 4 wheel alignment. I was told it would be $70. I asked them if they could assure me they knew what they were doing when it came to a Fiero. He said it would not be a problem.

Its now 4:15 and I just spoke with the tech asking what the status was.

He said they were not able to align it and that in order to do so it will end up costing around $400-$500.

The reason that he gave was that every time they made an adjustment, the rest of the car would get "out of whack" on the machine and it then took them a half hour to reset everything. He also mentioned that it had something to do with the cradle being too far out of alignment to work with.

I told him it was perfectly aligned for 2 years before I swapped out the engine and asked why they can't do the alignment?

He just said "well thats what they are telling me" and proceeded to repeat what he just told me about how making an adjustment moved everything else "out of whack".

Then another person got on the phone with me and said they would need to keep it overnight so they could try again tomorrow with one of their guys who gets paid hourly so it won't cost as much, but that it would probably cost more than the original quote of $70 they gave me.

When he heard my frustration, he said at this point I have the option of picking it up at no charge for what they have already done so I can try another shop. I told him I will wait till tomorrow to see if they were able to figure it out.

WTF?!?!

And I went in there thinking maybe I am worried for nothing....

quote Originally posted by perceptionist: Am I being worked over here? Is this car really that hard to align? Can this be done accurately at home?

no I would not recommend it being done at home. you will never get the camber and caster right. Don’t listen to what most people tell you there is NOTHING special about a fiero. maybe 20 years ago it was hard because it was a new setup. but a fiero suspension is in no way special. short long arm in front. McPherson in back, thought you typically only see one or the other on a car, still nothing special compared to what new cars have. I have personally done an alignment on my fiero and a few other with out a problem on the really outdated 4 wheel alignment machine at our shop. Find a shop that has a 4 wheel alignment machine and have them do it. you don’t need to take it to a dealer, the will only over charge you "its what they do best".If they have worked on cars in the last 5 years they will have no problem alleging you car.

Wow, I took my 84 2M4 to our local GM dealer for a 4 wheel alignment. A young woman about the age of my daughter took my car in hand, an hour later I got my car back with a printout of the adjustments make and the current settings. The car handles like a dream and is straight as an arrow. Could something be out of whack due to the engine swap? Did you have any problems with reassembly?

I'm going to be taking my 84 2m4 to a GM dealer for an allignment soon. And wondering if I should install some cam bolts before going. Do they go in the very bottom hole? How does the cam bolt work? I replaced my struts this past weekend and both holes on the bottom were round. wouldn't there need to be a slotted hole for these to work?

------------------
T.G.

About 10 years ago I bought a "Lifetime Alignment" from Firestone. I just used it again yesterday:

code:

---

Camber    -1.6           -1.7
                  0.1
Caster     4.7            4.6
                  0.1
Toe       -0.00          -0.06
                 -0.05

---

The shop I use is very cool. They set the car to whatever specs I say and let me sit in the car so the alignment is more accurate.

quote Originally posted by Grandaddy84SE: Could something be out of whack due to the engine swap? Did you have any problems with reassembly?

The disassembly and reassembly went amazingly well. I did not have any issues with the cradle bolts or anything. I was pleasantly surprised.

I just dropped it off at another place again voicing my concerns as they assured me it would not be a problem. I am to pick it up at noon today.... We'll see.

I just came back from the Pontiac dealer who had a tech that was the alignment expert and who also by the way, was the subject matter expert on Fiero's. He had worked on my Fiero in the past so I trusted him. I got in at 8 AM this morning and was out at 9:30 AM. He was not available yesterday so I waited for today to make the appointment. I am glad I did this when he was available. Talk about a difference in the steering and feel, it is like night and day. Although they did not charge me the $89.95 like they said it would cost, they charged me $130 because of some other things they found like loose bolts and nuts from when I installed the rack and pinion assembly that I bought from the Fiero store.The tech there was impressed by the quality of the rack and pinion by the way. In my opinion I would do it again. Especially when you find a good tech at the dealer who knows the Fieros. And they even washed my car!!

[This message has been edited by Pegasus SD455 (edited 11-09-2007).]

I took mine to Altons Tire this morning. I let them know about my experience at the GM dealer. They said it shouldn't be a problem.

Well I've heard that before...

I went to pick it up around lunch time and the tech could not understand why the GM dealership had problems performing the alignment or why they said it would cost $500.

Alton's did an awesome job for only $60 complete with a spec sheet showing how every adjustment looked before & after the alignment.

Also, the tech who did such a great job had never aligned a Fiero before but said it was pretty straight forward. So with that I can't help but wonder what the deal was at the GM service center that it "couldn't be done"

I took the Fiero back to work from there on it's first freeway trip since the rebuild. I'm loving it!!

I just picked up a 1987 GT for my wife and it came with a $69.00 alignment spec sheet. Those retards left the rear toe at 0.61" I called the shop that did the alignment and said "hey you did an alignment a few years ago on a Fiero".....and then I proceeded to tell the service manager that he was fired for letting the vehicle leave his shop like that. We had a few words and most of them had four letters.
I don't have a rack at my shop (I purchased the factory laptops instead), so I pay the local body shop to align my cars. At my shop discount, I was billed $200 for a correct four wheel alignment. They actually adjusted front caster and camber...as well as the rear camber and toe
Dave

------------------

450hp 1987 Fiero GT, 1986 Fiero SE, certified master technician/shop owner
www.njautobahn.com

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 11-09-2007).]

I think the techs at the GM dealers performing general service items like wheel allignments and fluid changes are the same type of people who do that for Mr. Lube and other large chain stations.

Most of the GM techs rush everything because they go by book time, they get paid the same to do a wheel allignment if it takes 10 minutes or 1 hour, but if it takes 10 minutes, they can start another job that pays them, therefore making more money, and an incentive to rush. Warranty work is even worse becaue the tech gets paid 1/2 of book time to do the same job, so it is very rushed.

The best places are the local shops IMO, you actually talk to the mechanic, and they have a reputation to build. Most of them also go by book time, but since they have a much smaller market area, they dont want to piss you off, where the big chain companies and dealers have a large market area and dont care if they piss a few people off. Also, the small local shops usually have 1 or 2 mechanics that are fully trained in auto repair, and usually know more stuff than the after school kid who works for the big shops doing the simple stuff.

When I first had my 84 Fiero alligned (Fountain Tire), they said the camber was off, and the frame had to be bent to allign the camber. I took it to a different place (Kal Tire), and they said my upper ball joints were loose. Fountain Tire never checked that, they just tried rushing it through, and skipped the ball joint check.

quote Originally posted by befarrer: I think the techs at the GM dealers performing general service items like wheel allignments and fluid changes are the same type of people who do that for Mr. Lube and other large chain stations. Most of the GM techs rush everything because they go by book time, they get paid the same to do a wheel allignment if it takes 10 minutes or 1 hour, but if it takes 10 minutes, they can start another job that pays them, therefore making more money, and an incentive to rush. Warranty work is even worse becaue the tech gets paid 1/2 of book time to do the same job, so it is very rushed. The best places are the local shops IMO, you actually talk to the mechanic, and they have a reputation to build. Most of them also go by book time, but since they have a much smaller market area, they dont want to piss you off, where the big chain companies and dealers have a large market area and dont care if they piss a few people off. Also, the small local shops usually have 1 or 2 mechanics that are fully trained in auto repair, and usually know more stuff than the after school kid who works for the big shops doing the simple stuff. When I first had my 84 Fiero alligned (Fountain Tire), they said the camber was off, and the frame had to be bent to allign the camber. I took it to a different place (Kal Tire), and they said my upper ball joints were loose. Fountain Tire never checked that, they just tried rushing it through, and skipped the ball joint check.

Local independant shops are much better than the dealership in my opinion too. I know of one local shop that is run by a Fiero guy, but they only work on German cars....kind of strange. The owner's wife even gets dirty working on BMW brakes, Ferrari services, and anything else that needs to be done. From what I understand, they are not cheap, but every car leaves the shop repaired 100% even if it means taking a loss on the car to keep the customer happy. Dave and Joey normally go out to dinner or for drinks with some of their customers. Heck, an oil service at their shop takes at least 45 minutes to do, but it is very rare that their regular customers have to come in on a tow truck.
This is just my opinion and I have no affiliation with them.....
Dave

------------------

452hp (at the crank) 1987 GT, 1986 SE soon to be 24v VR6, 1987 GT (wife's toy), certified master technician/shop owner
www.njautobahn.com

I just had mine done at Farm-N-Fleet in Kankakee IL. They did admit that it took them a while to get it right because we have 16" rims and they dont leave much room to get at the rear bolts, but it drives and handles great.....

quote Originally posted by perceptionist: II went to pick it up around lunch time and the tech could not understand why the GM dealership had problems performing the alignment or why they said it would cost $500. Alton's did an awesome job for only $60 complete with a spec sheet showing how every adjustment looked before & after the alignment. Also, the tech who did such a great job had never aligned a Fiero before but said it was pretty straight forward. So with that I can't help but wonder what the deal was at the GM service center that it "couldn't be done"

Likely the dealer's guy didn't WANT to do it unless it was worth their while. $500 must have been their "worth their while" price.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 11-13-2007).]