well normaly i only get cold air at night, as the temp drops to about 70, and depending on the type of heat/humidity i might keep it on, im not a fat guy, i just hate heat, and yes 70 is a bit warm sometimes

quote Originally posted by vamper: i just hate heat, and yes 70 is a bit warm sometimes

You need to be living in the Yukon.

When I've visited down south (places like San Diego), I can't stand it when I walk out of the heat (which I like) into an air conditioned building. I find it freezing after being outside. It seems silly to have to carry around and wear a sweater when inside!

well dont get me wrong, i dont mind the warm weather of spring/fall its the summer stuff that gets me, im the kinda person who walks outside in his boxers during a snow storm and says hey thats kinda nice, thing is i have looked into buying property and permantely relocating to brazil or an asian island area, just gotta make sure to have electricity and AC

quote Originally posted by vamper: [I want] cold cold air ...

A properly functioning A/C system in a Fiero ... R-12 or R-134a ... will produce all the 40 to 50 degree (F) air you can handle. On the other hand, a poorly operating system will produce disappointing results regardless of what refrigerant you use. Several simple and inexpensive things to check are 1) a clean condenser, 2) a clean evaporator, and 3) a properly operating air mix door.

The last item bears some further discussion. In the Fiero, hot water continues to circulate through the heater core even when the A/C is operating. If the air mix door isn't adjusted properly, you may be running some of that cold, cold air through a hot heater core. You can't just block off the heater hoses in summer, though, because the heater loop also functions as the engine thermostat bypass.

I bought a recharge/retrofit kit at Auto Zone today and would like to recharge my air conditioner. I have read the instructions on how to do it and it sounds simple enough. The only problem I have is where do you hook up the cans of R134a . There is a connector or whatever you call it under the front hood on the round silver whatever you call it and there is a connector in the engine compartment. These are the only 2 connectors that I have found and don't know which one to use to recharge the system. Any help would be appreaciated.

quote Originally posted by Jims 84: I bought a recharge/retrofit kit at Auto Zone today and would like to recharge my air conditioner. I have read the instructions on how to do it and it sounds simple enough. The only problem I have is where do you hook up the cans of R134a . There is a connector or whatever you call it under the front hood on the round silver whatever you call it and there is a connector in the engine compartment. These are the only 2 connectors that I have found and don't know which one to use to recharge the system. Any help would be appreaciated.

Did you ever get the answer? Maybe this video will help -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a6LNAOLXqU&NR=1

quote Originally posted by Jims 84: I bought a recharge/retrofit kit at Auto Zone today and would like to recharge my air conditioner. I have read the instructions on how to do it and it sounds simple enough. The only problem I have is where do you hook up the cans of R134a . There is a connector or whatever you call it under the front hood on the round silver whatever you call it and there is a connector in the engine compartment. These are the only 2 connectors that I have found and don't know which one to use to recharge the system. Any help would be appreaciated.

You must have an 84...only the 84 had the port in the engine compartment. That is the high side. NEVER hook to that with the conversion kit bottles. The refrigerant goes in the low side, which is in the front on the shiny silver thing, (the accumulator aka receiver drier). You have to put a conversion fitting in it before your charging hose will attach. Add refrigerant until cold air blows.

I am still confused about this thread. After reading it, just as many were for the 134 conversion kits as against. what is the general consensus now?

quote Originally posted by Jeckel: I am still confused about this thread. After reading it, just as many were for the 134 conversion kits as against. what is the general consensus now?

I'll tell you my experience and my decision.

I took my 92 Dodge Stealth to a AC shop. They tested it and said there were leaks all over that needed to be repair. They gave me an estimate of $1,500. They said I should stick with R12. I asked, if I paid the $1,500 would they warrenty it to work. They said no, because my evaporator may be bad too. If so, then they would replace that for another $1,000. So I was staring at $2,500 to get my AC working. I asked if replacing the seals was just unhooking the hoses and then replacing the seal. They said, "no, we have to cut the ends off of your hoses and put new ends on it."

So I did a little research, bought the equipment and changed the system over to R134a with:

1. New compressor
2. Replaced 1 hose
3. Replaced all seals
4. New accumulator
5. New expansion valve

With the price of the above items, R134a, AC flush, bar guages and vacuum pump, it cost me $450. After I changed it over, it blew ice cold. Also, in the process I learned just how much of a bunch of liars and crooks that AC shop was. Almost everything they told me was a lie.

Go and get your estimates. But don't get taken. You can do a complete conversion with new parts for less than $500. If anyone quotes you more than $1000 to fix a R12 system, then walk.

I agree with Doug. Took my 86 SE to a reputable AC shop. They evacuated the system, retrofitted the system, added some oil and dye and charged the system with 134 then called me to say I needed a new compressor. They said it would cost 600.00 labor plus parts. I went and picked it up and it cost me 160.00 for them to tell me what I already suspected.

Here's what I did:

A lot of research and reading AC threads.
Bought a book and a DVD on AC.

Purchased:
1 - Compressor - 180.00 - Auto Zone
1 - Accumulator - 30.00 - Auto Zone
1 - Orifice Tube - 1.99 - Auto Zone
1 - Condensor - 215.00 - Auto Zone
1 - Oring Seal set - 6.00 - Auto Zone
1 - AC Belt - 11.00 - Auto Zone
1 - Water Pump Belt - 11.00 - Auto Zone
1 - Can of AC system Flush - 14.00 - Auto Zone
1 - 8 oz Bottle of AC oil - 7.00 - Auto Zone
1 - Can 134 with dye - 8.00 - Auto Zone
3 - Cans 134 - 18.00 - Auto Zone
1 - vacuum pump - air driven - 12.00 - Harbor Frieght
1 - set of AC guages - 35.00 - Harbor Frieght
Misc. new bolts, etc. 25.00

Everything for under 600.00

As of this post, I have everything installed, hooked up and have pulled a vacuum on the system. I left the vacuum on the system overnight and after about 14 hours, the vacuum is still holding. From what I can gather (understand), holding a vacuum for an extended period of time shows no leaks?

Tonight, I will attempt to charge the system!

quote Originally posted by LT-5Fiero: Do what I said, replace the orifice tube with an automatic adjusting one for extreme climates.

they claim to cool "better" i put one in my 85 and didn't see any temp changes.
i took temp reading before,
sucked 2.5pounds of r12 out.
replaced tube,
vacuumed it down
put 2.5 back in
and still had the same temp readings at idle.
IMO not worth the 20 bucks.

quote Originally posted by Fierari: Blah Blah Blah...

just kidding.
i gave you a + for taking the time to write it all out.
good post.

[This message has been edited by buddycraigg (edited 07-10-2008).]

quote Originally posted by katatak: From what I can gather (understand), holding a vacuum for an extended period of time shows no leaks? Tonight, I will attempt to charge the system!

Vacuum is not a reliable leak check... it's only 14.7 or so psi and in the wrong direction. You need to do a pressure decay at about 100 psi to reliably leak check the system. The purpose of the vacuum is to remove all the air, (moisture) from the system before filling it.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: Vacuum is not a reliable leak check...

You picky, picky space guys ... Agreed, a vacuum check doesn't guarantee a leak-free system. But if you find a leak during a vacuum check, then you know that the system definitely isn't going to contain refrigerant under pressure. So while a vacuum check isn't definitive, it is a useful, simple, and cheap 1st-level leak test.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 07-11-2008).]

Yes, I have an '84. I used the the Auto Zone kit last weekend and now have cold air. I think it would be a lot cooler on real hot days if my windows were tinted. I applied some Walmart Tint to the sunroof and that seems to help with the heat coming through the roof. Maybe if the side and rear windows had a darker tint it would help. In general I am satisfied with the results that I got.

quote Originally posted by katatak: Purchased: 1 - Compressor - 180.00 - Auto Zone 1 - Accumulator - 30.00 - Auto Zone 1 - Orifice Tube - 1.99 - Auto Zone 1 - Condensor - 215.00 - Auto Zone 1 - Oring Seal set - 6.00 - Auto Zone 1 - AC Belt - 11.00 - Auto Zone 1 - Water Pump Belt - 11.00 - Auto Zone 1 - Can of AC system Flush - 14.00 - Auto Zone 1 - 8 oz Bottle of AC oil - 7.00 - Auto Zone 1 - Can 134 with dye - 8.00 - Auto Zone 3 - Cans 134 - 18.00 - Auto Zone 1 - vacuum pump - air driven - 12.00 - Harbor Frieght 1 - set of AC guages - 35.00 - Harbor Frieght Misc. new bolts, etc. 25.00

Don't you need a pressure cycling switch for R134a?

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: So while a vacuum check isn't definitive, it is a useful, simple, and cheap 1st-level leak test.

True...if it won't hold vacuum it sure won't hold pressure. When we service the Space Shuttle Freon loops we generally would hold the vacuum over the weekend and it was only allowed to decay a small amount before we would fill.

Just where does this Orifice tube go? I've fumbled around a bit with my system and never noticed anything like that but then again I really wasn't looking for it either?

quote Originally posted by Puglet01: Just where does this Orifice tube go? I've fumbled around a bit with my system and never noticed anything like that but then again I really wasn't looking for it either?

the orifice tube is in the metal line that the blue arrow is pointing to

Thanks for that information.

So I took a gamble and replaced everything but the compressor itself and had the system recharged this weekend. Consequently, the compressor is already screeching like a violated cat. Anyone know where I can get a new R-134a compatible compressor? The shop I took it to could only find one for $550, so I'm hoping I can do better, cause it's probably gonna cost $200-300 just in labor to replace it. They're not gonna charge me to pull the refrigerant and recharge it, though, so that's nice.

Whuffo, you have a PM.

Autozone's website has listings for an H6-OR and H6-SW compressor, neither of which is the same part number as Pontiac used, and it has several others with no part number. Kragen/Parts America's website is a worthless pile of 1s and 0s and keeps timing out when I try to search, so I don't know what they carry. Any help?

Try this link for figuring out some of this AC interchange info

http://www.fierosails.com/ACCompressor.html

Goodluck

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 07-14-2008).]

NM, thanks for the link.

[This message has been edited by Fastback 86 (edited 07-14-2008).]

I have an 86 iron duke that i got for $500, I work at AUTOZONE. I did the r134a conversion with the kit $39.99 less with discount. All I did was have a shop evac. the system $30 and I filled the a/c system. That was a year ago and it still blows out 45-49 cold air with no problems.

I just bought a new HR6 Delphi replacement from Arizona Mobile Air (1-800-648-4475). Ask for Jack. It's identical to the one from my '88 except it uses seal washers (supplied) instead of o-rings. You have to re-use your old switches from your HR6. They can be tough to remove and Rock Auto has the red pressure switch for $65.00 if you break it.
The part number on my receipt is 14-20248NCRS, it was $381.00.
The catalog number on the box is CS0105
Item order number CS0105-11B1
Compressor said it's R12/134A approved.
Made in USA!!
They're a SOB to turn when they're new. Get a bottle of POE oil and put a few oz. in the suction side, stand the compressor clutch in a vise and turn while pulling oil in. Try now to pull a muscle, mine took all the torque I could come up with.

It's on the car now or I'd check the tag on the compressor itself. I also found the compressor when I googled the part number. Someone had it for about $330.00 buck. Forgot who. Anyway, Ariz. Mobil had to get it from Texas, it took a couple days to get here to Phoenix.

Cool, that's good to know. Anyone know if the connections on the DA-6 and HR6 compressors are different or the same?

In all, I think I'm gonna leave this alone for a while. $200 in the hole already and I still have no AC. Not sure if I want to spend another $600 on parts and labor right now, I've been dealing with no AC for 2 or 3 years now.

I have been reading this thread over looking for info on changing oil out in the compressor. I have a HR6 compressor that was on R12. I drained by turning it up on end to allow the oil to drain out. I am sure there is residue left, though.

How do I make sure I have it all out before adding the ester oil for the R134 conversion?

You don't have to. Current best practice, according to both the EPA and GM, is to drain as much old mineral oil as possible from the compressor and then add the specified amount of PAG or POE (ester) lubricant, half directly into the compressor and half into a new accumulator. Once the system is charged and operating, the remaining mineral oil will migrate "harmlessly" to the low points of the system and remain there. At least that's the official theory.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 07-16-2008).]

Thanks very much. That's exactly what I will do!

Here's an update on my air conditioning rehab on the 86 SE. I Charged the system on 7/10/08 using 1 can of r134 with the dye. I let the system cycle for short period while looking for leaks at all the hose connections, compressor, condensor, accumulator and the orifcie tube connection. No leaks! Added approx 2 more cans of r134 until the pressure was right. System blows 40 degree air and maybe it's me but it gets damn cold in the car in a matter of minutes. Iv'e been driving it back and forth to work for the last 6 days. with highs in the mid to upper 90's. Halfway home (about 7 miles) I turn it down to low. R134 seems to work pretty well in this system. Time will tell. I used a standard orifice tube and did not replace any switchs. Thanks to all for the help and advice.

I ordered an accumulator today and the store stocks the adjustable orifice tube. The compressor cycles and sounds great and there is some pressure in the original system so I guess when I put the accumulator and orifice tube it the system will have ample time to empty. Any other suggestions?

quote Originally posted by Whuffo: I forgot to mention the different compressors used in Fieros; this is important. V6 Fieros came with the DA-6 compressor (not 134 compatible) until a mid-year change in 1987 when they switched to the HR-6 compressor. The HR-6 compressor can handle R134 just fine, so late 1987 and 1988 Fieros can convert to R134 without compressor problems. They also switched to a compatible accumulator during production but there's no way to tell when that happened; accumulators don't have model / serial numbers. As a "general rule" 1988 V6 Fieros are a safe conversion to R134A. Earlier models are more troublesome. Earlier cars with the DA-6 compressor - converting them to 134 is a gamble. Sometimes it works, sometimes the compressor self-destructs and sends metal shavings all through the system. Our Austrian friend is driving a 1986 Fiero, so he needs to understand the risks. If his system is intact but has just leaked down to the point where the low pressure switch prevents the compressor from running - a pound or maybe a pound and a half of R12 is all it'd need to be working perfectly again.

Where would someone go to get this pound or pound and a half of R12?

quote Originally posted by Brint: Where would someone go to get this pound or pound and a half of R12?

From an A/C shop (or an individual) with an EPA "Section 609" certificate. R12 is still legal to use and available (at about $50 to $75 a pound), but it can no longer be manufactured or imported into the U.S. The R12 that is still available is either reclaimed or was stockpiled prior to 1993; both are still legal sources. As an individual, you must have either an EPA 608 or 609 certificate to purchase raw R12.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 08-28-2008).]