With a GT weighing more than 300lbs more than a Formula, its like having a large lardass in the pass seat. Why would anyone want a GT over a Formula? Sail panels.... the front end? For years I have not been able to figure this out. I read a post about a guy who will trade his Formula for ANY GT, he wants one so bad, even a older one w the old suspension. I just don't get this? I'll take the Formula every day over any GT.
Thanks Rick

Most people feel the GT looks better, while the formula is more attractive than the early coupes, and I would like one, Id prefer the GT cosmeticaly.

That and your information is wrong, plain and simple. The ONLY diffrences between an 88 GT and a Formula is the body cladding. They come available with the exact same options, exact same engines, same trannys, exact same suspension on both, exact same interior on both, exact same wheels on both. The only thing you are adding on a GT is the GFX (maybe 10lbs) the GFX nose and Bumper (a couple of pounds over formula), the fastback, tail lights and 1/4 windows. And all but the side GFX are pre-existing, just a little extra plastic on the bottom. The fastback clip is the only thing that might amount to any kind of weight gain, but from handling both, I dont think its much.

If the information you have is at all accurate, it could only be explained by the Formula being a stripped down base unit, and the GT fully loaded. Though you'd be stretching at that.

Unfortunately I never got around to weighing the body pannels, but I weighed pretty much everything I could get my hands on here:
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...050410-2-056199.html

[This message has been edited by 86GT3.4DOHC (edited 03-26-2007).]

Sorry, but with all due respect, you are the one that is wrong. I bought a new Formula in 1988, and have owned 6 other Formula's since then. I remember clearly Pontiac's own stats showed a weight difference between a Formula and a GT at 330 pounds. That is a Pontiac number not mine. Also a very similar 300 lb weight difference between a Mustang GT and a Mustang coupe 5.0. All the body cladding adds pounds pure and simple.

PM sent

It boils down to personal likes and dislikes. Not everyone has the need for speed. Some just like the looks of the fastback. However, I personally like notchbacks. My favorite is the 85GT. I have an 85GT and an 86SE. I'd love to have a loaded Formula 5 speed. I believe about the only option not offered on the Formula is power mirrors.

Base models do indeed have the weight difference, it's true. But the GT came standard with a bunch of stuff the Formula didn't... power windows, power mirrors and i think even air conditioning. I doubt there was much difference in SIMILARLY EQUIPPED cars.

All Pontiac Formula's of all types typically had very few options. All of mine except one have had manual windows, none have pwr mirrors, none w pwr locks. My current Fiero Formula has zero options except for rear window defroster, which I never understood on a Fiero.
Pontiac's idea w the Formula concept was lighter weight w the HO drivetrain and was used in many cars including T-37 Tempest, later Firebirds (but I've seen Firebird Formulas w 6cyl engines), and of course their famous "swiss cheese" HO drag cars of the 60's.

Just search for doug chase (chaserace) posts. He weighed a few Fieros to answer this very question I believe.

Kurt

quote Originally posted by Boxdin: Sorry, but with all due respect, you are the one that is wrong. I bought a new Formula in 1988, and have owned 6 other Formula's since then. I remember clearly Pontiac's own stats showed a weight difference between a Formula and a GT at 330 pounds. That is a Pontiac number not mine. Also a very similar 300 lb weight difference between a Mustang GT and a Mustang coupe 5.0. All the body cladding adds pounds pure and simple.

Theres no way there is 300 lbs of plastic added to the body of the GTs, plain and simple, heck the whole front fender only weighs 2.5lbs.

I dont think there is any option on a Fiero that is standard, you can find any model with any feature inclueded or deleted. About the only given is that formula and GTs will have the V6 (and both always have rear swaybar) I've seen fully loaded base coupes and near bare GT's. Formulas took the place of the SE in the 88's, apparently as the mid level moderately equipped model. Im sure there are some out there bare bones, but I dont think Ive personaly seen one without power windows and Ive never seen one (though im sure they exist) without a wing.

Bottom line, the "GT" does not weigh considerably more than the "Formula" The options therein equipped might make a diffrence, but not the model designation. I've completely stripped a coupe and rebuilt it to a GT, I know exactly what goes in there, and what pretty much every piece weighs. I know I weighed the body pannels I just dont know where if anywhere I put it down.

Pontiac may say the GT weighs more than the Formula, but that wouldnt be the first fact GM fudged, and not the millionth they've gotten wrong, remember the Vette VS GNX HP wars of the 80's?

Not taking either side here as I do not know for sure, what I do know is I just finished a few days ago removing a GT rear clip to do some metal repair on the upper frame rail. The entire rear clip can't weigh more than 20 lbs or so as it was very easy to lift off and carry across the garage by myself. Dan

That weight difference is base car to base car - the GT comes with a lot of equipment that's optional on the Formula.

Like to like equipped Formula VS GT - the GT is about 102 pounds heavier. None of the individual body parts that differ are very heavy, but all together they add up. The added weight is at the rear of the car, so there is a small difference in handling.

Which is best? Whichever one you like best.

quote Originally posted by Whuffo: That weight difference is base car to base car - the GT comes with a lot of equipment that's optional on the Formula. Like to like equipped Formula VS GT - the GT is about 102 pounds heavier. None of the individual body parts that differ are very heavy, but all together they add up. The added weight is at the rear of the car, so there is a small difference in handling. Which is best? Whichever one you like best.

That weight difference is base car to base car - the GT comes with a lot of equipment that's optional on the Formula.

Like to like equipped Formula VS GT - the GT is about 102 pounds heavier. None of the individual body parts that differ are very heavy, but all together they add up. The added weight is at the rear of the car, so there is a small difference in handling.

Which is best? Whichever one you like best.

I can believe 102 lbs more weight on the GT due to the slightly larger body panels, quarter windows, larger air grills, larger taillights and few other things. A like equipped Formula ( one with exactly the same options) as you pointed out will weigh close to the weight of a GT. The Formula uses the same frame, engine, interior, lights etc etc etc. If the Formula weighs that much less its' because the GT came with more standard equipment than did the lower end Formula.

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87GT 3.4 Turbo- 0-60 5.2 seconds -Best
Engine Controls, ECM goodies, Chip
re-programming & odd electronics stuff

Both of my GT's and my Formula weigh within 150 lbs. of each other - wet with driver. Weights were on a certified truck scale.

300lbs? I don;t think so. I've seen a chart with all the various weights of differently configured cars. not true in same year.
if you are comparing an 85 se and an 88gt, I think you might be at 280 lbs, but not an 88 se vs gt.
the 88's were heavier across the board from earlier years by a few pounds.
the se if fully optioned isnot much lighter than a gt.
A/C is one of the heaviest options. Also the wider tires in the rear of the gt's add a few lbs.
I';ve had an se equipped from the factory with a/c , pw, perofrmance sound, rear defogger, so you have to compare cars that have the same equipment levels.

look here: http://home.xnet.com/~paulv/MajorSpecs.htm
most se to gt weight differences are in the 12-30 lb differrence in the same year.
unless of course you want to compare the 84 4cyl se to an 88 v6 gt which is a 255 lb differrence.

there are some other charts like this out there, all say the same thing. I have only once seen that 300 lb number tossed about and that was in a discussion on the 84 vs 88 change over the cars lifetime.

quote Originally posted by Boxdin: With a GT weighing more than 300lbs more than a Formula, its like having a large lardass in the pass seat. Why would anyone want a GT over a Formula? Sail panels.... the front end? For years I have not been able to figure this out. I read a post about a guy who will trade his Formula for ANY GT, he wants one so bad, even a older one w the old suspension. I just don't get this? I'll take the Formula every day over any GT. Thanks Rick

Kinda sounds like you are trying to pick a fight. Anyway, as stated it is personal preference and it looks like the GT wins out for most people. As far as weight differece, if there is much at all, it's nothing a V8 won't fix.....

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..from beautiful Caledonia, WI
87 GT 5 speed Electron Blue V8 SBC TPI
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94 BMW 850Ci V12 (for sale)SOLD!
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04 Caddy STS
00 Pontiac GTP with GTX package
96 Suburban
92 Dodge Shadow 28K miles

quote Originally posted by Boxdin: With a GT weighing more than 300lbs more than a Formula, its like having a large lardass in the pass seat. Why would anyone want a GT over a Formula? Sail panels.... the front end? For years I have not been able to figure this out. I read a post about a guy who will trade his Formula for ANY GT, he wants one so bad, even a older one w the old suspension. I just don't get this? I'll take the Formula every day over any GT. Thanks Rick

You speak mostly from a performance point of view. Yes, a Formula is lighter. Probably not by that much, but until you put up proof we can't know. But not all people are hardcore performance junkies like you. I remember when I was shopping for a Fiero, I was looking for something that was well equipped. Railshot, the man who wants to trade his Formula, has his own reasons too. If you had taken the time to research, you'd know about it too...

what a useless post, why do you care if someone wants a gt for a formula. Personal pref.

According to"Pontiac: Road Cars, 1988" The weights of Fieros range from 2542 to 2712 lbs.

Here's the options listed as available for that year, from the same book:

http://fierodomain.com/imag...s/88FieroOptions.jpg

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www.FieroDomain.com
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A GT weighing 300 lbs. more than a Formula is hard to believe.

The reason people want the GT more than the Formula is plain and simple - the fastback looks much better.

Even if the GT did weigh 300 lbs. more than a Formula wouldn't bother me. The Fiero isn't a race car. If you think that, you're in for a rude awakening.

We have weighed a few Fieros on 4 place race scales. The 2 Notchbacks were the heavier cars (they were autos)
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...070315-2-077055.html

[This message has been edited by SCCA FIERO (edited 03-26-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Boxdin: That is a Pontiac number not mine.

The actual advertised weight of a 1988 Fiero Formula V-6 is 2679 lbs and the GT is 2679 lbs.
This is the base (no options, no fluids) weight of each vehicle per Pontiac.
Considering that the decklid, rear clip, nose, and side skirts add some weight. The GT also had power windows, delay wipers, and decklid release as standard. So it is easy to see how there can be a 56 lbs difference.
Not sure where you get 300 lbs unless one vehicle is fully loaded and the other is a no option car.

300Lbs !

It's more like 600 Lbs.

My 1988 Formula = 3,383 lbs
My 1985 Replica 308 = 2,700 or so lbs.

Oh Darn . . . My 1988 Formula is a Firebird !

Seriously though, I've had a few and I don't think there is a 300lb difference in Fiero's. Could be wrong though but don't think so.

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I'm not driving too fast, . . . I'm flying too low.

regardless of weight formulas still posted faster 1/4 times then gts...haha least they look good getting beat stock vs stock..dont flame me i have owned both...tim..

quote Originally posted by thismanyfieros: regardless of weight formulas still posted faster 1/4 times then gts...haha least they look good getting beat stock vs stock..dont flame me i have owned both...tim..

Yea I know! Who cares. The reason that 300lbs would even be a big deal is because of the 2.8 being as weak HP wise as it is. I've weighed my car on a certified truck scale with a full tank of gas: 2750lbs roughly. I think your quib is about people leaving the W6W suspension and 88 improvements for the fastback look. So what? If they do that they clearly have no preference for performance but go for looks. I see that you understand the benifits of the 88 models so stay with them. If you care about speed then swap motors because the 2.8 is a boat anchore stock. Or spray or force induct. If it eats you alive what others are doing then focus on something more important like credit card debt or world hunger. There are more constructive ways to spend your time.

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LMAO, how did I miss this post?
Yes, I would gladly trade my Formula for an older GT, and yes I am still looking for one.
Why,
I like the looks of the GT better and at the age of 55, I don't do a lot of street racing or cruising as of late, and I really don't have anyone to impress anymore except myself. LOL.

To compensate for the additional "300 lbs" I guess I could always install a 3800 or N*, but heck, I just like to drive em now.

I found this thread looking for a thread on converting a coupe to a GT.
Anyone know of one, I am tired of searching. ?

quote Originally posted by railshot: I found this thread looking for a thread on converting a coupe to a GT. Anyone know of one, I am tired of searching. ?

I dont think I did a thread on it, but I've done it, theres nothing to it. You just pop off the pannels and slap on the new ones. You will need to remove the roof pannel, and thus most of the interior to get to the bolts. You will need the tail light wiring harness as well. There are some plastic rivets you will need to drill or cut on the rear lower 1/4's, I just replaced them with regular rivets and or 1/4" bolts.

As for the orginal thread, I have weighed, and posted on here somewhere, the weight of just about every single part of the fiero, and therein confirmed there is no fundamental weight diffrence between coupe (IE formula) and fastback. I actually did this when I was converting my 88 base coupe to a GT with turbo 3.4DOHC. The only weight diffrences there would be would come in the optioning of the cars.

Thanks for the information. I am hoping to find a "shopping list" of parts, so that I could complete the project in lets say a weekend or so. It really does not look too overwhelming as everything is pretty much a bolt on item. I would hate to get 1/2 way through and find I forgot to purchase something. This is my "daily driver" and the wife sure hates it when I have to take "her" car to work.

The original post subject was actually inspired by a post I made on fieronews, about wanting to trade my Formula for any GT. I just like the bodystyle soooooo much better. Personal choice I guess.

I would still make the trade with anyone willing. My Formula is far from perfect, needs paint and seats re-covered, but she runs and drives great. I have done a lot of mechanical work to it since I bought it last June. It gets me to work and back without any issues, thus I am thinking of swapping the body panels to make her a GT. I know my Formula and trust it now. Trust in a Fiero is rare and probably not wise, but I have it. LOL.

Lol,

well there is no real shopping list to be had, the only way you're going to get all the parts is to find the donor car and strip them yourself. Sometimes people will sell a conversion kit, which you can hope has everything, but you cant just buy parts here and parts there and expect to come up with a complete kit, not easily.

Off the top of my head:
rear clip
1/4 windows
inner 1/4 window surrounds (black things on the inside of the clip)
engine louvers
louver mounts (strut tower washer thingies)
trunk carpet
trunk carpet squaring inserts
decklid
tail lights
rear wiring harness
Drip rails

Thats all I can think of right now.

I guess it really isnt that many parts, its just a few of them are really hard to come by, like drip rails and tail lights, and the others are less than common.

Having an 88 you will need 88 specific louver mounts, but you can survive without them. Also, while you can use a pre 88 GT tail light harness, you will have to move one pin in it, it was the turn signals I think.

[This message has been edited by 86GT3.4DOHC (edited 02-10-2008).]

quote Originally posted by 86GT3.4DOHC: Having an 88 you will need 88 specific louver mounts, but you can survive without them. Also, while you can use a pre 88 GT tail light harness, you will have to move one pin in it, it was the turn signals I think.

These mounts will be nearly impossible to find as not many 88 GTs are parted out. But you can make your own out of a few pieces of metal.

When I converted my 88 coupe it was the brake lights that didn't work until I moved one wire.

I agree there can't be more than a pound difference in the GT and Coupe body panels. A rear clip only weighs a few pounds to begin with. I can easily carry one with one hand.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 02-10-2008).]

Perhaps there's an automatic transmission somewhere in that equation...

I cant see 300lbs with a base 5 speed formula vs a loaded gt auto maybe if the formula is drove by a starving midget and the gt by a rather large man. I own a formula and I like the notchie's but its a preference I think my notchie is a bit lighter than a GT and it will edge a GT in a race but edge is all. That being said one day id love to own a 3800sc powered GT to my formula v8 would be a nice town car to drive around and show off with some minor body mods. I love my formula if an offer was made to me for a GT at a price I could afford Id get it to. I got the formula cause I wanted an 88 above all and I had X amount of cash which in turn bought me a formula i was a cpl grand short of a GT.

**edited for a typo**

[This message has been edited by linuxpowered88 (edited 02-10-2008).]

A few options, like Performance Sound, Lumbar seats, and Rear Defog weren't available on Formulas.
Also, typically Formulas were stripped down and GTs were loaded.
But probably the biggest reason to go for a GT over a Formula (other than preferring the looks) is aerodynamics. The GT is better at high speed than the Formula due to the aero nose. The coupe nose tends to generate more lift at high speed.

I do remember the Formula being the hot ticket in AutoX back in the day. The few pounds difference really gave it an edge over the GT on tight AutoX courses. At least, that was the hype.

Thanks for all the input everyone, it is looking less and less like I will be doing this conversion.

The reasons are not lack of ability or cash, I am slowly being convinced by a couple of people it would be wrong to do this to a Formula (the wife included), so here I am back at square one, ready and willing to trade for a GT or Dodge Stealth R/T (now there is a heavy car).

I tend to agree. With only so many Formula's being produced, and only in '88, it would be a shame to do this to it.

For street cars, I don't think a 100 lb. or so difference outweighs a preference in styling, at least not for most. I've owned 2 GTs and simply prefer the looks.

Now I do like the same engine in a car weighing around 700 lbs. less..... :-)

[This message has been edited by BillS (edited 02-10-2008).]

Railshot
You say you want a Stealth RT, Would you settle for a '92 or '93 3000gt VR4, with I think like 70k miles? I know where one is at that is going to get put up for sale.
James

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'88 Coupe (extensive mods underway)
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/086359.html

[This message has been edited by HTXtremes (edited 02-10-2008).]

Heck yeah I would take a VR4!!!, back in '91 had a VR4 and they are awesome vehicles. I still have the owners manual and original window sticker from it!!
My only problem is I am $$$ limited at the moment. Basically I can only come up with in the area of $4500.00 for one, and only if I can get $1500 for my Formula. It's not looking good for a VR4 at the moment. I just looked at a '94 Stealth R/T yesterday for that price. 79,000 miles non-twin turbo, automatic, sunroof, 6 disc CD, etc. nice R/T. I have to hold out until I can sell the Formula, and with the weather we are having (-4 here today) I can't see anyone looking for a Formula, especially an automatic.

Hey it's your car.... if you want to convert it to a fast back then do it!! Fieros are most likely never to be expensive collector cars, kind of like Corvairs, Pintos, Pacers, and a lot of other old cars that the majority of people don't collect.

There is nothing in a fastback conversion that can't be undone if you later change your mind. Save the body panels and you can re-convert in a weekend. It's that simple.

Good point jscott1, I can always put it back should the become "valuable", and I have been waiting 20+ years for that to happen. LOL.

I think I may continue with this. It is what I want, not what others think that counts. Now to find a donor car. Something local to me would be ideal.

Does anyone know if anything was changed for '88 that would make earlier body panels not fit. I do know that the inner fender tubs for the '88' coupes are specific for that year. I now have some from an '84 and an '85 in my garage, that won't fit on the Formula (got them at a local yard without checking first). My drivers side was missing when I bought the car.

Hmmm, this is going to be fun. I will start a "shopping list" just incase someone else down the road wants to do this also. Sure would make it easier. As I progress, I will start a post on what I run into with pics etc. Just have to wait until I get a donor, and the weather warms up a bit, it is -4 outside right now. A bit too cold to be working with plastic and paints.

For some encouragement, here is my coupe before and after conversion:

jscott1, you have inspired me.
I have always liked yours, and the color is perfect. Let's see where this all takes me.
Who knows, maybe this old man has some creativity left in him after all.