HI my name is Karl, I just bought a 1985 Fiero 2m4 with a 5 speed. I just came off of a 240sx but someone put sugar in the gas tank so It died, sold it and bought this one from a neighbor for $600. The battery was dead so I never got to drive it before I bought it, because the car only has 150k on it and he had a lot of legit papers proving that he just put a new engine, tranny, water pump, tires, and some more goodies into it. The car is pretty much perfect exept for the interior. Well I got a batt put it in started on the 5th try but when I tried to back out It didn't let me like it was stuck on something so I added a lot of gas and drove out of it with a loud rour of the engine. Drove it around the block aggressively (never even got higher than 40mph) for 3 mins or so and parked in front of my garage. Soon as I got out I noticed a big cloud of smoke out of the engine caprtment. Figured it's just some old leaves burnign or **** like that. I cleaned the hell out of the engine, changed all the oils and stopped on the radiator. There was milky brown fluid in the radiator resrvouir. I think I blew the head gasket when I was backing out, but I don't know if it did any demage or anything. I'm hopeless I just spent my last money to legalize the fiero and I need a car quick, so please Im just asking for some feedback and suggestions that won't skyrock my budget. Sorry for the essay and thanks...

I doubt you blew the head gasket in that short time. you may be seeing leltover crap in the reserviour.
did you take the ebrake off before moving it? don;t laugh, we've all done it, with that ratchet setup. if you pull it up and it doesn;t click, the brake is on. pull to top, push button and release.
after that with the car sitting for some time, there will be rust in the cooling system, and the oil is questionable. flush the cooling system. change the oil. jack each wheel, verify no brakes are hungup.
if possible, borrow or rent a compression guage, warm the engine up, remove all plugs, lock the tb wide open, and test each cylinder. watch each as it pulses up., record the 3 pulse level and highest for each.
report back.

Yup, sounds like the head gasket. The milky brown fluid is a tell tale sign. That's the color you get when the antifreeze and oil mix because of the blown gasket. Can't really comment how how much damage you'll have to determine that. but on the Duke (4 cylinder) you should be able to replace the head gasket relatively easy. the head is right on top and easily accessible after some minor stuff is removed. (air handler, EGR, & valve cover) Get a Haynes manual and it will walk you through it. Make sure you flush all your fluid out. The antifreeze and oil are now both contaminated. Oh by the way, welcome to the insanity. The Fiero, making mechanics out of men since 1984!

Jim.

ya, shoulda said check the oil too. I've seen alot of crap remain in a reserviour tho, people never clean them out.

I agree. Milky oil in the crankcase is a problem. Milky water in the overflow might be something like water pump lubricant.

Frozen handbrake is a likely cause of the no-go issue. What did the smoke smell like? Brakes? Antifreeze? Marshmellows?

I don't really remember how the smoke smelled and i can't start the engine becasue after like 10 secs of the engine running I get white smoke, really thick, so I think I'm gonna change the head gasket and all the oils, and the e-brake is down but It feels like its slightly engaged on the right back wheel. How long does a head gasket change take and what tools do you need, I swapped engines and transmissions before but never took them apart.

found out what tools and what to do...
...how long does this usually take?

With the right tools and no broken bolts, a couple hours. If the engine has never been apart though, count on a few "Oh hells" with side trips to get new bolts. Are you going to get the head checked?

And use lots of PB Blaster on those old nuts and bolts. Makes life much easier.

[This message has been edited by Hudini (edited 07-03-2007).]

No, wwher do i get that checked? And the engine never been apart before, but the engine seems to be newer than the car, plus they have receipts for it, and the car only has 150k

You can get the head checked at any good automotive machine shop. Call one of your local auto parts stores and they'll probably be able to tell you where to take it. See if any of the pistons look like they've been 'steam cleaned'

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1984 Fiero SE

Just an idiots observation here - but if the oil is not milky - I would do a coolant sytem flush first. You say they put in a new motor - any idea how many miles ago? If it's brand new - I would start to guess on maybe something like the clutch is not properly installed... this would give you all sorts of driveability problems, not to mention A LOT of smoke. Since you say it's smoking in the driveway and not being driven and still getting smoke - right?

A good test for the head gasket is to make sure your coolant systme is good an full.... pull the plugs and crank the motor. See if you have a four cylinder water cannon! :-) Yes - I have done it... shot water onto the roof of the house with a Dodge 2.2 with a bad head gasket.
Just an idea before you go ripping the head off.


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~Ron
Dacono, CO

1969 Plymouth Barracuda - For Sale
1985 Pontiac Fiero SE
2002 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland

[This message has been edited by moparron (edited 07-03-2007).]

Naw, I'm pretty sure it's the head gasket, the oil was milky as hell, and the cluth worked pretty ****ing smooth, I don't know I just completely emptied my radiator, and I'm gonna pull the head after the 4th, I'll just get this one mechanic by me to look over the cylinder head and the pistons, he works with import engines but I'm sure he should know...

Moparron has good idea,chek plugs!! as soon as you pull them does one look different from the rest?? this is good chek because you should remove to replace head gasket the mechanic should be able to give advise before you pull head.also head remove will let you know if engine was rebuilt,let us know results of head pull ,,also jack up rear of car and spin both rear wheels rusty disk will quikly clean when you drive unless a real mess..make sure all wheels move freely.. the e brake is ajustable with ajusters for right and left if cable frozen spray with pb blaster you can loosen ajuster and ajust after the smoke problem is resolved

[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 07-03-2007).]

Okay, got a mechanic to look over my engine, he said as far as it looks I didn't cause any real demage because not much got into the oil. Yes it is the head gasket. The tranny is new and the engine is sort of new, we think the gasket was already blown when I bought it, but whatever I got it for $600 and it's in pretty good shape. Only things bad is the middle campartment on the isnide, the head liner, the driver seat, paint, and some really minor surface rust on the underbody. The passanger seat is just beautiful! Not a freaking scratch, guy probably had no friends :P.
I have another problem though, my e-brake totally doesn't engage, and when I look on the line in the back that goes to the brakes it's not connected to anything. I'm wondering how that works? And weird thing both of my right wheels are locked up. Like I can barely move them, I'll prob just blead them cause aside from the surface rust they seem preety new, but does anyone have an idea why this might be? Thanks so much by the way, I would have prob sold it if not this forum...

bump...
...does anyone know why my right wheels are locked up? And the e-brake never engages because the line that connects the two wheels for the e-brake isn't cnnected to anything? How does the e-brake work? THis car is just so diffrent than imports, I'm like lost...

the rubber lines to the calipers are known to collapse internally when they get old. they usually act like a 1 way valve. if the calipers release when you open the bleed, it's like the rubber line. they are about 20$ apiece at rockauto.

if you go to the fierostore site, they have a nice pic of how the e-brake cables are hooked up.

thanks bro, I'll do that, now I know I ask a loot of questions but I have another problem. I took of the air cleaner the EGR all the lines, connectors coil, headers, the alternator belt, and all that **** but there is like a engine mount on the intake (i'm removing the intake with it, the book told me so) that goes to like a silver bone looking thing, that connects to the alternator. The book just says remove the engine-strut bolt on the intake, and I did, and It doesn't seem like I'll be able able to shimmy that whole thing out. The bolt that i removed was on top of the intake and the metal mount goes straight on top for a while. WHAT THE HELL??? Anyone help? Do I remove all that and the alternator too?

the dogbone (the silver thing) shoudl pop right out when the bolt is removed. the steel part that goes to the alt braket bolts gets pinched in on it, and sometimes there is a warn indent that you need to pop the center bushing of the dogbone out of. is it held like a control arm bushing. as an alternate, if you are removing the head, you can also take the othere bolt out of the dogbone at the trunk side.
can;t help much more than that tho, never did a duke, only v6's

sweet, naw I got it out myself I played with it a little, I put the head gasket on alredy, now I'm putting the head back on, but I'm wondering does it have a valve cover gasket or is it just made from silicon?

I bought the rubber gasket since I have more luck with them than the cork gaskets. They all leak after awhile anyways.

I'll try that...

****ing autozone gave me the wrong head gasket, so this is for hold till tomorrow after work, and hopefully I'll get t running, and the brakes, and the e-brake, and whatever else is stopping me from having a fully functioning car...

Did you get new head bolts? The head bolts on these cars are one time use only. They are what's called torque to yeild and that stretches them.

computer would not type last night surface of head and surface of block should be REALLY clean with out nicks or scraper marks if block and head is smooth much easier to get good fit,, check cylinders to see if cross hatch pattern still visible,but more important you need to replace valve guide seals,you should place liquid in cylinder chamber to see if valves leak if they do lap in lightly with valve grinding compound this will give you a better running car do not worry about rings,to big a job .if you are experienced you can cross hatch with light sand paper and bevel oil ring lip,,major source of smoke is valve guide oil seals!!! before install chek fit at block and head of gasket,,borrow or rent torque wrench you have manual follow sequense use strong cleaner on head and block to remove ALL residue from gaskets ,put thin layer of gasket gysum on valve cover no gysum on bottom unless head damaged,pusrods should go to proper cylinder,turn engine over by hand before install cover,if you must use old bolts clean all previous gasket gysum off clean ALL bolts with hard toothbrush or soft wire brush intake manifold should not need sealant unless damage,,,broken and rusted exhaust bolts, are future trouble cheap to replace,do not tighten head with big breaker bar use torque wrench,,check head and block with glass for surface flatness ,why did gasket leak?? I have listed 25% of what needs to be done,, former scooter mechanic stan

[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 07-06-2007).]

wow that really covers a lot...
The head and the block are perfect I cleaned them last night with powerful degreasser, You can still see the cross-pattern. How long does it take to replace valve guide seals, what tools do you need and how much? I'm prob not gonna bevel the oil rings, don't know how to. I most likely will buy new head bolts, unless they're a horandous amount of money. I got a tourqe wrench so It's all good. The headers are almost brand new, my friend had a fiero and he didn't use them so I got them they're OBX racing headers with all new bolts and gaskets, some bullshit from ebay, but they seem to be good, and the welds are good so I'm installing them. I had some parts on my nissan from them and they never failed me. The Cylinder seems perfectly flat, I'll check that really soon. So I got new gaskets (valvecover, head, intake, headers, exhaust flange), will most likely get new valve seals, maybe head bolts, I got 50/50 antifreeze (4 gallons), I replaced the trannie oil with synthetic from GM, I got the new brake lines, bought FRAM Tough oil filter, got a new fuel filter, now I just need to buy new plugs and enigne oil, any recomendation? And anything I missed please tell me, and thank you all I'm seriously lost with this car, bothing like imports.

Check the brake calipers!!! Sounds to me like they are froze up.

how do I un-freeze them? Just buy new ones?

[This message has been edited by kamikazeee (edited 07-06-2007).]

PLEASE tell me you had the head checked for cracks. Visual check won't do. They tend to crack in between the valves. Head gaskets do fail sometimes, but 80% of the time, the head will crack. If it has been run hot, the head is DEFINITELY cracked. If you have coolant in your oil, hopefully it hasn't been run long in that condition. Coolant eats the Babbitt coating off the bearing and you will have a knock soon if it did.

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carpe diem

I don't know, I guess I went a bit ahead, I installed everything I checked out the valve stem seals, they seemed fine, I almost have everything done just some other things before I start it, hopefully it'll work...

quote Originally posted by kamikazeee: how do I un-freeze them? Just buy new ones?

Do the calipers release when you open the bleeders or loosen the rubber hose? If they don't then the calipers will have to be replaced. If they do release then just replace the rubber line that goes from the frame to the caliper.

quote Originally posted by kamikazeee: I don't know, I guess I went a bit ahead, I installed everything I checked out the valve stem seals, they seemed fine, I almost have everything done just some other things before I start it, hopefully it'll work...

Go for it. The Duke is pretty easy to work on. If it does not work it gives you a good excuse to put an S10 Duke head on it. Or an engine swap.....

It is difficult to all that is suggested hopefully all will be well, the valve seals are a major source of engine smoke if the seals were pliable,they could be recent install,,if head is bad and you keep this car,the s10 head & intake manifold grand am manifold..should be installed it gives cooler running better mpg and you will be able to tell power increase ,do engine then tackle other problems when head install and will run only run brief time check engine coolant hot running engine is biggest cause of fiero bonus cash to tow truck industry and last tow to yard!! easiest method remove front radiator cap,, pour water in rear cooling system tower untill water flows from front ,there will be air in coolant hoses and pipes,this is quick effective way to get max water in fast so you can drive ,,coolant tower cap should be TIGHT with no cracks in rubber..many on the forum have done exactly what you are doing now ..cross hatch pattern extremely good news,,it is the lip at the top of cylinder that you bevel if there was no lip left by ring wear EXTREMELY good news,, good luck

Beg, borrow or buy a compression tester and find out for sure. ;-)

No sense ripping a top end apart then going "doh!!"

okay, I have the whole thing back together, with no oil or radiator fluid, nothing, how would I check completely for sure If my head is cracked, or there's a leak in the valve stem seals??? Cause as much as I hoped it is the head gasket, I can be wrong, and that's a lot to worry about...

you have the old head mounted and ready to ride, start it up and see if problem has been resolved,you are far away from head transfer at this pointconcentrate on proper running then we can tackle brake problems you could lube e brake if still disconect they rust if not used,SORRY s10 head will not fit your model only 87 and 88 see if it is a driver now old cars have problems solve them one at a time if car will not run and drive other problems do not matter go then brake then the other crap stan

[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 07-07-2007).]

how do I tell what year engine it is, I mean it has been swapped. And I know the oil is 5w30, but can I run it as 10w30 or 5w20 first cause I have a shitload of it and I don't need it anymore? Ya I'll try it in a sec see what happens...