I just installed the NOS universal 4/6 cylinder wet kit. I paid $500 for it at Checkers. It came with:

-10lb. bottle and brackets
-powershot fuel and n2o solenoids
-solenoid brackets (stainless)
-master arm and WOT switch
-all stainless steel braided lines -4
-nozzle and 6 jets
-prewired relay
-14ga. power wire (was way to short to run into the car though)
-brass fittings and tap (for the nozzle and the fuel rail if you don't use the shrader valve)

I also purchased the purge valve kit for $105, pressure gauges (fuel $35 autometer/ n2o $60 NOS), and two -4an gauge blocks ($17 each)

Everything ran about $750

The install went smoothly till I ran out of wire at about 1:00am and had to run to wal-mart. I finished around 2:30, already had the bottle filled (the only place on Oahu charges $78 for 10lbs), set the timing back 3* and started finding my jet combination. Was not impressed at all with the recommended 35shot jets (26n2o and 18fuel). After some trial and error, I'm currently running 36n2o and 22fuel jets and I'm quite happy. I added an AutoMeter A/F gauge and I'm running pretty rich still when my trans shifts at 5500 (auto). I also have no problem holding 46psi Fuel Press. at WOT on the bottle.

I mounted mine standing up with the siphon tube facing the rear. It's too late now but a purge valve is OPTIONAL. You do not need it. When you activate nitrous the juice hits the engine before the fuel. This results in a split second lean situation. This is because the nitrous is at like 1000+psi and the fuel is at around 45-50psi and they travel the same distance. Now if the nitrous is slowed down some it will create a rich situation instead of the lean or allo enough time for both to hit at the sametime. No matter where you read about a purge valve no one says it is needed or that not having one is bad. I had one until I burnt it out. I'm glad it is gone cause purging is very addictive. The manufactures just say it removes the air and it looks cool...big whoop. I'm not knocking yours just my .05!

Can't wait to get my other engine in there, this one looks like crap

Wow! there were a lot of responses on this one! Sorry, I didn't read them all, but I can say that I do run a 100 shot of Dry N20 on my LS1 Firebird. It is addicting! and fun at the same time. Keep in mind that you need to have the proper safety features in place, and run the appropriate setting for you application.

I always recommend a WOT switch. That way the N20 is activated at Wide Open Throttle ONLY!

W.S. or Window Switch. Meaning the N20 only operates between a predetermind RPM. For starting, or stopping the flow of N20.
Remember, the intakes on most cars on not designed to flow fuel, so you can get what is called "puddling". Meaning, if you inject raw fuel (as in a WET KIT) you run the risk of getting "puddleing" in the intake manifold, where raw fuel puddles in a pocket of the intake, where it can be combusted, and blow off your intake!

A bottle warmer is a MUST on a wet kit. On a Dry Kit, the higher the bottle pressure, the more power you are going to make. On a Wet Kit, you need to keep the bottle pressure where the manufacture says to keep it at! Too much pressure = a lean condition, not enough pressure = a rich condition.

Now on a 2.8, you have no MAF sensor, so a "Dry Kit" is out of the question! You only want to run 50% of your RWHP!!!!! Why RWHP? Because that is what most N20 kits rate there "jetting" at! So if your car dyno's at about 100RWHP, you want to run NO MORE than a 50HP RWHP jetting size.

Wet Kit = Injects both Fuel and N20 into the motor
Dry Kit = Injects just N20 into the motor.

Dry kit, you need a MAF sensor, and that sees more air coming into the motor (as well as a significant drop in temp.) and compensates with more fuel. Meaning, that your fuel injector needs to compensate for more air.

Wet kit is common on Carbureated motors.

Direct Port = Injects both fuel and N20 directly into the combustion chamber. This setup is the most reliable, and is the best way if you are going to run more then a 150 shot of N20 into the motor! Why? because you will run the chance of starving the rear most cylinders of fuel, and therefore can cause a lot of problems, maybe even putting a hole in those pistons!

Of course, what you need to do is some research, and find out what will work for your application, as well as how much you can run. I have wired, and tested a number of N20 systems on F-body's, and I know what works for LSx's, but because Fiero's are always different because of the type of motor you have swapped out, your best bet is to do some research.

Again, Forged internals is not a must. For high boost applications, or high HP, yes, it can benefit you. But you can run N20 on a stock bottom end with no problems, forged bottom end will make your motor stronger though. Also, N20 likes a motor setup with a N/A setup. Higher compression is a good thing for N20! Lower compression is for boosted applications! Also split cams is a good thing if you are doing a track/N20 setup on a car!

I also don't recommend a high mileage car for N20! Too many variables in there I wouldn't trust. Especially a Dry shot!

[This message has been edited by 02SOMFormula (edited 02-01-2007).]

i have a 400hp/tq 350ci sbc fiero with hyperneumatic (sp?) pistons, i know they are stronger than stock cast pistons, but not nearly as strong as forged... their advantage is that they are much lighter weight than the other options. i just recently acquired nitrous for this engine, i was wondering how much nitous these pistons can handle? can they handle the usual half rule? (i have 400 hp before nitous, can i handle a 200 shot?) or will the pistons disinigrate at that much? if not, what do you think is the max "safe" shot for me?

------------------
1986 Silver 5 speed Fiero 3.4 DOHC
Bored .30, Fully balanced and blueprinted
13.93@101mph as it is on the street

350ci 400hp/tq SBC, 4 bolt main
Spec Stage 3, Nitrous Oxide, many extras.
87 GT 5-speed Getrag, power everything.

The thing about cast/hyper pistons is that the ringland is higher than if you had a forged piston. If you are running a fiero tranny than you need to worry about it. With that 350 you are already exceeding the factory limits of the tranny. Have you driven this car hard yet as in drop the clutch from like 4 grand? Do you have custom axles? Do you have the cash to replace broken stuff? Your 350 fiero is going to be faster than most vettes because of the traction you gain with a fiero. A 125 shot is cake for a v8, but some say not to exceed 20hp per cylinder.

?

it says he has the Getrag 5 speed, which most people out there dont believe can be broken... but your weak link is almost always the shafts adn people often overlook that aspect and not to mention just cause it says Getrag doesnt mean it is indestructable...

The driveshafts are fairly strong. My brother has a 350 in his 88 formula and he is on his 3rd tranny, yet the same original axles.

Nitrous is really tq in a bottle.


The fjo unit is really the best device for nitrous because it contains so many things in one for only $210. You will need a fuel pressure safety switch, a bottle warmer, fuel pressure gauge, nitrous pressure gauge and I think that is it.

There really is no way to eliminate the split second lean unless you run a piggy back or stand alone. I figure not running a purge is good enough for me. The delay of the nitrous filling the main feedline should be good enough to even out the lean situation if not making it rich.

[This message has been edited by goatnipples2002 (edited 02-02-2007).]

I was thinking of a way to direct port and piggy back it or fogger and piggy back as I am not a fan of losing an engine due to my new bottle problems.... lol and I know ill like that edge while Im out alone I'll be hitting the bitton and know it...

are bottle warmers tank specific? how do I put in a piggy back? and how would I slow the n2o down enough for the non lean second? I always run rich so it shouldnt do much but I am very cautious with this stuff... its expensive

EDIT: whats a stand alone? as in stand alone fuel managment... where I regulate how the fuel goes depending on state of engine and such...? cause its got that in the chip somewhat... how I still get 20+ mpg city easy... before new chip was getting like 11mpg cause of the fuel flow with bigger setup and needed to lessen idle etc...

[This message has been edited by jack_ink (edited 02-02-2007).]

The lean situation we are talking about lasts LESS than a second so it is not going to kill or even hurt your motor. You could snap your fingers twice back to back and the lean situation would be less than that, just to give you some perspective. There are various stand alone fuel management systems but one of the more popular is the S-AFCII. Do you need it, probably not? A bottle warmer is a bottle warmer. If you are going to get a new one from the link below.

http://www.dynotunenitrous....st.asp?idcategory=15

quote Originally posted by goatnipples2002: The thing about cast/hyper pistons is that the ringland is higher than if you had a forged piston. If you are running a fiero tranny than you need to worry about it. With that 350 you are already exceeding the factory limits of the tranny. Have you driven this car hard yet as in drop the clutch from like 4 grand? Do you have custom axles? Do you have the cash to replace broken stuff? Your 350 fiero is going to be faster than most vettes because of the traction you gain with a fiero. A 125 shot is cake for a v8, but some say not to exceed 20hp per cylinder.

i have already blown the diff out of my original getrag that was in the car. i did this last racing season... i launched at 2500rpm with slicks, and boom, there was spider gears and oil all over the starting line. since then i have acquired a differant getrag that i am going to fully rebuild and cryo treat it. with this i figure my axles will be the weakest link in the system... which is what i want b/c i can change them in a matter of a half hour at the track.

i am not worried about the tranny side, i can fix that, i am just worried about the motor because thats the most expensive part of the car and if i do perminant dammage (blow a hole in a piston) i am out of a lot more money than anything else. thanks.

------------------
1986 Silver 5 speed Fiero 3.4 DOHC
Bored .30, Fully balanced and blueprinted
13.93@101mph as it is on the street

350ci 400hp/tq SBC, 4 bolt main
Spec Stage 3, Nitrous Oxide, many extras.
87 GT 5-speed Getrag, power everything.

When it comes to nitrous you have to honest with yourself. Are you going to constantly up the shot? The axles are pretty damn strong. If you already have the ability to destroy getrags with relative ease then what do you think will happen when you add nitrous? From what I have seen slicks are a no,no because the slipping you get can be in your favor.....as you have experienced.

lol, yes, that was an expensive learning experiance. however, i am going to cryo treat my new getrag, another member, Tina, has gone through multiple izuzus and getrags with the same set of axles. just recently she has cryo treated a getrag and just now broke her first set of axles, the same ones that have been with her through multiple trannys. cryo treating increases strenth of the metal by a minimum of 30%. i am hoping this will get the tranny stronger than the axles. like i said before i dont mind axles, its just if the tranny blows again, or worse the engine blows, i am out of alot of money... my question is not about the strength of the axles or drivetrain at all, its about the strength of the pistons. i forgot to mention that the engine was completely rebuild about 1000-1500 miles ago.

I see and yeah I know of Tina. Most stock V8s can take a 125 shot easy. Cryo the axles too and let me know how much, where, and thresults sounds like I might get it done. I have just been skeptical of the out come.

im not going to cryo treat the axles b/c the tranny will only be rated at 325ft/lbs or so compared to the stock 250ft/lbs. i am hoping that the cv axles will be less than 325 b/c i know if i have 500+ hp and tq with nitrous i will be breaking something, and i would rather have the axles break than the tranny again.

here is a very useful link for you that i started a month or so ago...
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/079892.html

it shows alot of differant ideas on how to build the ultimate getrag tranny, along with some other opinions about a couple other trannys. VERY helpful to a getrag builder

quote Originally posted by goatnipples2002: I see and yeah I know of Tina. Most stock V8s can take a 125 shot easy. Cryo the axles too and let me know how much, where, and thresults sounds like I might get it done. I have just been skeptical of the out come.

I would also second the cryo treatment on the axels too... super strength all the way around

and maybe her first set of axels finally gave up the ghost after multiple abuse situation cause it casuses microscopic fissures in the metal and after a while they can add up like in aero engineering they only use aircraft frames for so many hours before the stress cracks can cause the complete breaking point

EDIT for spelling

[This message has been edited by jack_ink (edited 02-02-2007).]

anything new? My "project" should be complete next weekend...I hope

[This message has been edited by goatnipples2002 (edited 02-04-2007).]

Hey Goat,

Nice Thread
As you prob know, my LT1 was rebuilt with the Nitrous Express Direct Port kit in mind, so pistons are forged and cam. plugs and compression are nitrous friendly.
Still looking forward to fine tuning the system in the spring - it is currently jetted for 150 shot.
Most details of the installation can be found in my build thread.


Ryan

------------------

1986 Fiero2m8 (LT1 NX / 4T60 Roadster Build)
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/071642.html

Direct port TASTY.

------------------

My Web page | The Turbo Super Duty Build.
You know that little voice that says it can't be done? I duct-taped mine's mouth shut and pushed it down a flight of stairs.

this was my direct port on my 86

now im doing this to my 87 but i think i have to hide it under the intake because the throtle linkage is in the way on the top.

cryo makes things stronger but also makes it more britle. there is a new proses called mikronite (sp?) from what i have heard its the new best thing

http://www.vincihiperforman...E%20MAIN%20PAGE.HTML

My only dislike is that I can use a bottle a day and it's expensive..... I'm at the point that I'vbe spent enough on nitrous to pay for 3800sc, the plus side is it really wakes the 4.9 up

100hp shot on a 3.4 (rebuilt)

from what I read up on the Mikronite is that it sounds a lot like ultrasonic hardening and then resurfacing it with like a ceramic-tungsten hybrid alloy which I have also been reading up on for about 4 years now and I am not sure exactly what "mikronite" is but it sounds way wierd... and I did have my stuff ultrasonic treated as well as cryoed and the slipping is IN my favor still cause if I put too sticky tires on it I would shear them off it like the stock ones that I put on it that lasted a day lol

BREAK-FIX-REPEAT that is what it amounts to if theres a weak enough link but it is better to have one weak link than have 2 weakest links go out at the same time and cryo-ing the axels shouldnt make the trans break it will help them at the same theoretical % from base therefore wouldnt they still be the weak link? but your variables may differ from the basic % of limits and conditions

quote Originally posted by jack_ink: from what I read up on the Mikronite is that it sounds a lot like ultrasonic hardening and then resurfacing it with like a ceramic-tungsten hybrid alloy which I have also been reading up on for about 4 years now and I am not sure exactly what "mikronite" is but it sounds way wierd... and I did have my stuff ultrasonic treated as well as cryoed and the slipping is IN my favor still cause if I put too sticky tires on it I would shear them off it like the stock ones that I put on it that lasted a day lol BREAK-FIX-REPEAT that is what it amounts to if theres a weak enough link but it is better to have one weak link than have 2 weakest links go out at the same time and cryo-ing the axels shouldnt make the trans break it will help them at the same theoretical % from base therefore wouldnt they still be the weak link? but your variables may differ from the basic % of limits and conditions

The "Mikronite" process is basically a highly controlled version of shot peening. Supposedly, Mikronite is able to put a much more predictable surface than regular shot peening, by use of a centrifuge. The outer surface of the metal is hardened and put into compression, and the slip planes of the material are put at an offset angle to the inner, untreated material. Both of these inhibit crack propogation.

quote Originally posted by jack_ink: BREAK-FIX-REPEAT that is what it amounts to if theres a weak enough link but it is better to have one weak link than have 2 weakest links go out at the same time and cryo-ing the axels shouldnt make the trans break it will help them at the same theoretical % from base therefore wouldnt they still be the weak link? but your variables may differ from the basic % of limits and conditions

well, i still have good axles, and my differential grears blew out of the tranny casing (this says the axles are stonger than the tranny), so if both the axles and the tranny was cryo treated then i would still have the tranny as the weak link. with cryo treatment to the tranny alone it will be rated at aproximatly 350ft/lbs, my engine is putting out 400 or so ft/lbs before nitrous. my point is that i knw there will be a weak link somewhere in the system, i just want to narrow it down to the cheapest and easiest to fix. however if i do cryo the axles also, i might get a couple extra runs in before something breaks, but i would rather change axles ($50 or so each time) than change trannys (around $1000 each time with cryo and complete rebuild). i hope you see my reasoning, i would like more runs before something breaks, but i would not like to pay outrageous money when something does break.

and if down the road i decide that i am blowing to many axles i can always go down the street and get a set cryo treated.

Fastindy, What kind of nozzles are you using and are they annular?
Flames4me, do you have a posi ( lsd) in your tranny? Suppositively open differentials are hard on spider gears. Might be something to look into

------------------

85 GT 3.4
14.9 @ 90 1.9 60' Old TH125/3.06
Unknown New 4T60/3.42

quote Originally posted by Lilchief: Fastindy, What kind of nozzles are you using and are they annular? Flames4me, do you have a posi ( lsd) in your tranny? Suppositively open differentials are hard on spider gears. Might be something to look into

NOS stainless annular nozzles.

Got most of my parts in now I am waiting for the snow to melt. Oh yeah.

Your talking to some one that has blowen up thousads of $ on NOS woo hoo
stock Fiero Can live to max 75HP 11 bottles 100HP 5 bottles 150hp 1 bottle if your lucky
A single fogger NOS noz with 50 HP is ideal placed at tbody thats a 50% increase over stock.

buid the ltiile 2.8 you can run tthe 75 to 100HP Real nice

Don't do like me more NOS More Power= many more$
and alot of down time "hang my head in shame"

GO NOS LOL

Flames I see youre point on the cheapest breking point.... but there may be a way to make one kind of like fuseable links in car wiring... but like notch the shafts or something... sounds kinda dumb but in a dragster only, it may be a feasible idea for track purpose so the transaxles will load up to a certain point say not too close to when the gears explode in the trans but near it a safe range... and split all the ones you want but remember the sticky tires break things fast...

just my .02 and a wierd innovative idea for your transmissions safety

but I totally understand where youre coming from

Got all my parts in but NX just emailed saying the FJO mini is on back order for a minimum of 4 weeks. Then My motherboard died. So I got a new board and processsor...that takes a bite out of my budget. I think I might be able to find one from another place though. If it wasn't so snowy and cold I would have it all installed now. So far my parts list is SS brake lines for nitrous, warmer, dual NX nozzles, crane hi-6, KYBs and maybe some 17s.

hey goatnipples, i just joined nitrousforum.com, i think i saw your name in a couple threads. they are soo helpful! anyone who has legitimate nitrous questions should check them out, i asked about hypereutectic pistons and they instantly gave great feedback.

jack, before i beat on it to bad, i am going to try and do some reaserch on the actual GM strength rating of the cv axles. if they are still over 350 or so ft/lbs then i might have to experiment with notching a few points in strategic areas to bring it back down. however seeing other peoples experiences with cryo treatment i dont think ill have problems with the tranny anymore.

------------------
1986 Silver 5 speed Fiero 3.4 DOHC
Bored .30, Fully balanced and blueprinted
13.93@101mph as it is on the street.
... ... !
350ci 400hp/tq SBC, 4 bolt main
Spec Stage 3, Nitrous Oxide, many extras.
87 GT 5-speed Getrag, power everything.

Yeah that site is okay at best in my opinion. They only have a few members...I usually learn nitrous over on LS1tech.com

I guess that is the best option after all cause I dont even know the actual rating all I knowis that tire slip has saved e so much in transmission/cv axel replacements that I am glad I am too cheap to buy sticky sticky tires...

but if it has been working then keep on I am starting to look into how I will n2o one of my cars... maybe the 350TPI I am getting but first I have to learn how to modify the TPI correctly so I dont kill the thing at the gate.

I'm just running a NX wet kit and a 100 shot on a 3.4 camero. Not much has been done to the engine, but I got it with less than 10K on it. I should get a tank warmer, but summers here really don't need it.

quote Originally posted by Banner: I should get a tank warmer, but summers here really don't need it.

Your joking right? Don't run for cash if that is your thought. All nitrous needs to be warmed so it can stay consistent.