Just curious as to what would be the best choice of manual tranny for the 3800sc? I know that the ones that came in the Fieros work but concidering the age of them all and that the 3800sc would be a much newer engine, it would be a good idea to use a much newer tranny for more trouble free miles.

It wouldnt be for drag racing and I have never been one to sidestep a clutch in anything but the engine might eventually see a little more HP in the future but not all that much. (less than 300 hp and less than 300 tq im sure)

What would be the easier to install manual trannys for this kind of swap? What kind of cars will you find them in?

Always shuddered at the thought of coustom length axels. Readily aviliable axels from doners that fit would be a plus.

Thanks

The supercharged 2.0 ecotec transmission is suppose to be rated for to handle the most power. But it still does not have the proper gearing for the 3800.

A GM tranny designer told me a while back that the GETRAG was designed to handle 200ft lbs of torque. It may hold up under more power for a while but it will eventually let go. Just take one apart and look at the smallish gears in there. On the other hand the 4T65E HD can take as much power as you can get the 3800SC to make. Do yourself a favor and use an automatic with the 3800SC. Considering the sluggish and sloppy cable shift mechanism that the Fiero uses; no human will shift faster than an automatic can in a Fiero.

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87GT 3.4 Turbo- 0-60 5.2 seconds -Best
Engine Controls, ECM goodies, Chip
re-programming & odd electronics stuff

When you only know one tune, sing it as loudly as you can.

The guy didn't ask if he should use a manual. He asked WHICH manual to use. He's made his decision. Let him live with it.

The Getrag/HM282 5 speed is the transmission I'd go for. The Muncie 4 speed is the second choice, but some gearing options don't compliment the 3800.

There's no well established method to install the new Ecotec 5 speeds in the Fiero chassis.

A stock rebuilt 282 can take you into the 12's.

Tina was running a cryogenically treated one into the 11's int eh 1/4. Has she broken that yet?

A stock L67 will put you into the mid 13's. A rebuilt transmission should last quite a while at that power level as long as it's not driven abusively.

you'll be making almost 300 tq to start remember 280 stock and it rises with just a pulley swap

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3800 SC/IC Formula people tell me the car whines more then I do....

I've got ovet 115K miles on my SC3800 with the 5sp Getrag

I have done a few 3800SC swaps using the Getrag 5 speed and all are still on the road running with the original tranny. Best thing is if it does blow there is very little work to change it over to a FWD Getrag which are very plentifull in wreckers and cheap in price to buy. The 4T65E HD may be stronger and faster in the 1/4 but it doesn't give you the control or enjoyment of shifting a manual tranny. Dan

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2003 3800SC series II powered
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For hard core reliability, 4T65E-HD definitely, it will launch you off the line as fast as a stick and get you to 60 in first gear. (I think... I dont remember for sure.) Still turns 13.60's on a basicaly stock engine.

If you have to go stick, its a tossup. The 4spds seem to be very rugged, but you are right at that line where you have enough power to just muscle through the high ratio gears, but you are low enough to take advantage of the lower gears of the 5 spd. I would reccomend just starting out with the FWD getrag, you can get them from $50, they are much more plentyful, and if you do break it, you just slap another one in there. Also they are a little stronger in the diff than the Fiero ones. If you have a Fiero getrag, you already have all the parts you need to convert a FWD to work in the Fiero.

Depends on what kind of driving you do.

If you do a lot of highway miles.
1) 6-sp : If you can justify the cost.
2) 84 Economy 4-sp or 5-sp Isuzu

If it is a fun weekend car and you don’t do a lot of highway miles.
5-sp Getrag

The econo 4 speed will blow its case apart, the isuzu will just grenade itself with any major abuse, the 6 speed is only reving 500 rpm or so lower than a 5 speed so not worth all the work except for the 6 speeds over all strength is said to be higher than the Getrag 5 speed. For the price difference you could go through a lot of FWD Getrags before breaking even with the cost of a 6 speed. Dan

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Signature compliments of F-I-E-R-O
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If you want to BUILD a transmission, you could put the gears from an '84 3.32 box into the 3.65 case used with the V6's in '85.

Ok, I have learned a little more from this thread. Thanks everyone for the advice.

quote Originally posted by 86GT3.4DOHC: I would reccomend just starting out with the FWD getrag, you can get them from $50, they are much more plentyful, and if you do break it, you just slap another one in there. Also they are a little stronger in the diff than the Fiero ones. If you have a Fiero getrag, you already have all the parts you need to convert a FWD to work in the Fiero.

I have an 84 4 speed and an 86 4 speed muncie. Not sure if they have the parts I need to convert to a FWD 5 speed with these.

If not, what do I need?

Also what cars are using the FWD 5 speed Getrags?

Thankyou for all the help.
Steve

I don't know if the beretta V6 getrag or the 00-02 getrag is stronger, but they should both work. The 00+ trans will take more work to use.

quote Originally posted by JumpStart: I have an 84 4 speed and an 86 4 speed muncie. Not sure if they have the parts I need to convert to a FWD 5 speed with these.

They don't.
www.rodneydickman.com

EVERY stick in a FWD V6 GM car is a 282. HO Quad4 transmissions are 282's. Turbo Sunbirds had them, but those boxes are RARE. The Q4 and Turbo Sunbird boxes have different bellhousings than the V6's.

If your '84 box has the 3.32 gearset, you could put 3rd, 4th and final drive from it with the 1st and 2nd from your '86 4 speed and install all of that in the '86 case. That would be about the best box you can build for a 3800.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 01-16-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Jncomutt: I don't know if the beretta V6 getrag or the 00-02 getrag is stronger, but they should both work. The 00+ trans will take more work to use.

On another swap forum it was mentioned that the FWD Beretta GETRAG was designed for greater strength than the Fiero 5 speed GETRAG. Not sure if this is correct but you can use Rodneys kit to install it in a Fiero. They are far more cost effective than the Fiero GETRAG. . The Beretta GETRAG may be the best manual choice available and it may last a while provided that you don't do too many all out 1/4 mile runs with it..

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87GT 3.4 Turbo- 0-60 5.2 seconds -Best
Engine Controls, ECM goodies, Chip
re-programming & odd electronics stuff

Dennis, since you don't know about the transmissions, get your information straight before you talk about them.

The ONLY internal change that enhanced strength/durability in the boxes was enlarging the side/spider gears in the diff. This happened in the early '90's, but I *think* it was AFTER the change to the internal throwout arm, so such transmissions require *slightly* more work to adapt than the older boxes.

Was the Beretta the only common car with the Getrag 5 speed? It just seems to me that most common cars are all automatics.

quote Originally posted by Will: They don't. www.rodneydickman.com EVERY stick in a FWD V6 GM car is a 282. HO Quad4 transmissions are 282's. Turbo Sunbirds had them, but those boxes are RARE. The Q4 and Turbo Sunbird boxes have different bellhousings than the V6's. If your '84 box has the 3.32 gearset, you could put 3rd, 4th and final drive from it with the 1st and 2nd from your '86 4 speed and install all of that in the '86 case. That would be about the best box you can build for a 3800.

Will you one of the better info sources here
but you forgot the 284 getrag in the DOHC V6 cars
they are stronger then any 282 but rare and donot work in a Fiero
as no one has made shift cables/levers to fit our cars for the 284

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Question wonder and be wierd
are you kind?

Will, do you know how the strength of the 2000-2002 getrag compares to the early 90s getrags? As of now, I'm planning to swap my isuzu out for a 2002 getrag, but will change plans for the early 90s if its a better choice.

Edit for 2002 gear ratios..

Transmission gear ratio (1st) 3.58
Transmission gear ratio (2nd) 2.02
Transmission gear ratio (3rd) 1.35
Transmission gear ratio (4th) .98
Transmission gear ratio (5th) .69
Transmission gear ratio (reverse) 3.31

[This message has been edited by Jncomutt (edited 01-17-2007).]

http://www.mantrans.com/

Since you do not have a Fiero getrag, get the FWD conversion kit from rodney dickman. It limits your choices, you must get a getrag from a V6, since the quad 4 have the wrong bellhousing. You must also be careful not to get one with a hydrolic TOB, basicaly a slave cyl and a TOB all wrapped into one. If you can find a good tranny and a bad one with the right bellhousing (fiero or V6FWD or what) you can swap the quad 4 and/or H-TOB bellhousing with any other getrag, so you could just put the bad tranny bell on the good tranny gear half. You cannot swap the 4-spd bell onto a getrag though.

I also agree, the 6 speed is not really worth it, the gears are too simular to the 5 speed, and the top gear not high enough to make the diffrence worth the trouble,

quote Originally posted by ray b: Will you one of the better info sources here but you forgot the 284 getrag in the DOHC V6 cars they are stronger then any 282 but rare and donot work in a Fiero as no one has made shift cables/levers to fit our cars for the 284

Ok... go find one.
I didn't forget it. It's not relevant. You won't find one in a junk yard.

quote Originally posted by Jncomutt: Will, do you know how the strength of the 2000-2002 getrag compares to the early 90s getrags? As of now, I'm planning to swap my isuzu out for a 2002 getrag, but will change plans for the early 90s if its a better choice. Edit for 2002 gear ratios.. Transmission gear ratio (1st) 3.58 Transmission gear ratio (2nd) 2.02 Transmission gear ratio (3rd) 1.35 Transmission gear ratio (4th) .98 Transmission gear ratio (5th) .69 Transmission gear ratio (reverse) 3.31

I don't know how strong the new transmissions are, but the ratios are very close to--and thus suck just as much as--the MG2 282 ratios. 5th is a bit taller, though.
At least with the 282 there's a 1.03 4th available.

Which trans came with the 1.03? Would the case have to be opened up? I'm really liking the .69 5th since I do thousands of miles on the highway. As far as 4th goes, I'm just barely missing rev limiter in the 1/4mi. with the isuzu. I trapped 109 and the tach was in the red.

from my experience, the .98 ratio for 4th is the best for utilising power above 85mph, If only you could get rid of the other 3 gears before that, and condense them into 2.

quote Originally posted by Jncomutt: Which trans came with the 1.03? Would the case have to be opened up? I'm really liking the .69 5th since I do thousands of miles on the highway. As far as 4th goes, I'm just barely missing rev limiter in the 1/4mi. with the isuzu. I trapped 109 and the tach was in the red.

Not with a Fiero Isuzu you didn't. At least not if your engine redlines higher than 4,000 RPM.
What's your engine's redline RPM? You sure you weren't in third?
You've probably got a 3.73 or 4.10 Isuzu. 6000 RPM would be 130 with the Fiero Isuzu (3.35 final).

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: from my experience, the .98 ratio for 4th is the best for utilising power above 85mph, If only you could get rid of the other 3 gears before that, and condense them into 2.

I agree. The MG2's 0.94 is too tall for a decent 4th. The Q4's 1.03 gear should be MUCH nicer. The 0.94 gets me to over 140 mph in 4th... I don't need that kind of top end. I wan the pull between 90 and 110. Third tops out about 90.

However, I'll disagree about the 2 gears idea. It needs three gears under it... they just need to be intelligently chosen. 2.50, 1.85 and the stock 1.38 would be great and FAR superior to the stock 3.50, 2.05, 1.38.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 01-17-2007).]

So if I were to call a salvage yard and ask for a getrag 282 5 speed (doesnt matter what kind of car its from?), it would bolt up just like the original Fiero trannys do and the stock axels will fit with no problem?

quote Originally posted by JumpStart: So if I were to call a salvage yard and ask for a getrag 282 5 speed (doesnt matter what kind of car its from?), it would bolt up just like the original Fiero trannys do and the stock axels will fit with no problem?

Well, no. You have to get one from a V6. The 4cyl getrags came on the quad 4 which has a diffrent bellhousing. If you do get the V6, it will bolt in using the Fiero brackets and levers, or using rodneys FWD conversion kit. I dont know if that comes with brackets or not though.

quote Originally posted by JumpStart: So if I were to call a salvage yard and ask for a getrag 282 5 speed (doesnt matter what kind of car its from?), it would bolt up just like the original Fiero trannys do and the stock axels will fit with no problem?

Will the stock Fiero axels hook stright up to the FWD Getrag 282s?

Also , what years do NOT have the Hydrolic throw-out bearing?

additional question to this only related to transmissions not the 3800. I have the 88 Getrag 5spd currently, I know zip about transmissions. Should I be able to go to a tranny rebuilders and get it rebuilt with different gears? I know it might be pricey but I'd rather take care of it by doing that and then getting it cryo'd.

Time is a non-issue as my daily driver is our work's Astro van. Oh, wait, maybe it is time critical haha.

Just wasn't sure if there are new gear kits or anything available.

Matt

Bump.....

quote Originally posted by JumpStart: So if I were to call a salvage yard and ask for a getrag 282 5 speed (doesnt matter what kind of car its from?), it would bolt up just like the original Fiero trannys do and the stock axels will fit with no problem?

Other than the fact that they won't know WTF that is, it's as mentioned above... you need a trans from a V6 car.
Ask by application. I don't remember what year they went from external thow out arm to internal throw out arm, but I'm pretty sure they went to the hydraulic TOB in '93. Rodney has an adapter to use the Fiero slave on an internal throw out arm transmisson.

Will:

I see the earlier gear ratios for the 2002 getrag (impertinent)....do you have a list of what the '88 is handy? If not no worries, I have a couple manuals stowed away in storage with the Fiero for the winter that I can check into next time I'm out at the storage unit.

Thanks,

Matt

All MG2 geared boxes: 3.50, 2.05, 1.38, 0.94, 0.72 w/ 3.61 final

Other options:
1st: 3.77
2nd: 2.19
4th: 1.02
5th: 0.81
FD: 3.94

quote Originally posted by Will: I didn't forget it. It's not relevant. You won't find one in a junk yard.

I found a 284 car at the Pick Your Part in Wilmington a few months ago. Someone had already pulled the tranny though it WAS there in the yard because the CV joints and tranny side suspension were laying next to the car.
There are also half a dozen yards on Car-Part.com that claim to have them.

See? you didn't find it.

Actually, since I wrote that, one has showed up in my local j/y. I can have it for $200.

Sorry to jump in here but this is what Ive been trying to find out. So what you guys are saying is that the- say 1990-91- 3.1 berretta 5spd is the same as ( size and bolt setup) as the fiero. What do you think of hooking a mild V8 to this trans, and can I steal the shifter and other parts as Im switching to a stick. I have an 86 2m4. what kind of hwy/ city driving can I expect.

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Thanks for the help. Ron

quote Originally posted by XMXRACER62: So what you guys are saying is that the- say 1990-91- 3.1 berretta 5spd is the same as ( size and bolt setup) as the fiero [transmission].

Yes. There are clutch slave cylinder, VSS & shift shaft differences, but the transmissions are the same family and can be interchanged.

quote What do you think of hooking a mild V8 to this trans, and can I steal the shifter and other parts as Im switching to a stick.

I think it would be fun.
You'll need a bunch of Rodney Dickman parts to adapt the FWD trans to the Fiero, but they're all OTS components.
If you're asking what mileage you'd get, that depends a lot more on engine & driving style than transmission.

not so much mileage im concearned with is high reving at hwy speeds or trashing the clutch around town. I guess that would be more a gearing question that mates the V8 to the trans. is the gearing in these the same or better ratio wise? I been looking and have printed out about 20 pages of stuff on the subject Auto and stick, but still have trouble thinking what would be best. Most muscle cars run 4.10s so i think, why not the early 4speed ,,,,then i think I might like the 5 speed. or just drop the t460 in.. I think I need to hook this V8 up to the 125c thats in it- see how long it takes to Roast it, then decide....LOL Im so confused Im going back to the suspension and forget transaxles for a bit. Thanks

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Thanks for the help. Ron

quote Originally posted by Jncomutt: Will, do you know how the strength of the 2000-2002 getrag compares to the early 90s getrags? As of now, I'm planning to swap my isuzu out for a 2002 getrag, but will change plans for the early 90s if its a better choice. Edit for 2002 gear ratios.. Transmission gear ratio (1st) 3.58 Transmission gear ratio (2nd) 2.02 Transmission gear ratio (3rd) 1.35 Transmission gear ratio (4th) .98 Transmission gear ratio (5th) .69 Transmission gear ratio (reverse) 3.31

.69 for the fifth gear? This is the only time I have seen this mentioned but would love that for fifth gear. Is this in all the 00-02 Getrags?