i would like the measurement from center to center of your dog bone strut bolt holes. the one on top.
i'm working on a 86GT 4 speed. the dog bone is the same size as my 85GT 4 speed.
one of the first things i noticed about this car when i opened the decklid was the engine was cockeyed. the vibration dampener strut was broken, and the front mount was bad.
now i'm putting it all back together, if i try to attach the dogbone, the engine is cockeyed again. without it, the engine looks nice and flat like every other V6 I've seen
i have in the past got the wrong dogbone strut many times from part stores, and just assumed they were selling me the one for the other engine. but now i'm wondering if there are 3 different sizes.
thanks.
------------------ Buddy Craigg - there are two "G"s in my last name Ling = 84SE-Modified Julia C = 85GT stock (kinda) Ivy = 67 Pontiac Catalina KCFOG
there is a pretty common aftermarket one that is a little longer and it's odd shaped on the inside. i may have pics of both that i have. let me go look.
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09:04 PM
shawnkfl Member
Posts: 2457 From: Largo, Florida Registered: Oct 2004
left one is stock, 3-13/16 centers. right one is an aftermarket version. i didn't measure that one but i can if you need me to. you can see the insides are different.
...might help if i add the pic...
[This message has been edited by shawnkfl (edited 12-28-2006).]
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09:08 PM
rpro Member
Posts: 2920 From: Rockledge, FL Registered: Jun 2006
i just checked my 85GT V6 4speed is about 4 1/16" the dog bone for the 86GT is about 4 1/16"
but measuring from the hole on the trunk frame to the hole on the engine bracket is about 4 9/16"
not only does this save me from looking like a butt-head because i would have killed my customers new mount and dampener. this also answers the question as to why i would sometimes get a dogbone that doesn't quite fit and i would end up using their old one.
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09:42 PM
buddycraigg Member
Posts: 13620 From: kansas city, mo Registered: Jul 2002
Well just to add more confusion my 85GT with stock bone and poly bushing measures right at 4 inch.
no, i think shawnkfl measurement was pretty dang close to 4"
i'm calling a long time friend /fiero repair guy to tell him i think i have just proven there are 2 different lenghts for the V6 strut. we never could understand why we would sometimes get the wrong size.
[This message has been edited by buddycraigg (edited 12-28-2006).]
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09:46 PM
buddycraigg Member
Posts: 13620 From: kansas city, mo Registered: Jul 2002
You guys are awesome. I have an '86 too and my replacement dogbone was very hard to put on. I just measured it and sure enough it is ~4". Now where to get the right one?
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09:57 PM
PFF
System Bot
gilli2us Member
Posts: 36 From: SW Virginia USA Registered: Dec 2006
Originally posted by shawnkfl: left one is stock, 3-13/16 centers. right one is an aftermarket version. i didn't measure that one but i can if you need me to.
would you measure the red and then the orange. i'm expecting around 4 and then around 4 1/2.
Just out of curiosity, I measured the dogbone on my '87 Buick Century with a 2.5L duke. It is 4 1/2" long, center to center. May be a solution if you can't find the right Fiero one.
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10:39 PM
fieroluv Member
Posts: 1951 From: Ft Wayne, IN USA Registered: Jul 2002
Just out of curiosity, I measured the dogbone on my '87 Buick Century with a 2.5L duke. It is 4 1/2" long, center to center. May be a solution if you can't find the right Fiero one.
thumbs up to you friend.
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10:47 PM
paulcal Member
Posts: 2608 From: Jacksonville, Fl Registered: Oct 2002
I always thought that the style dog bone on the right with the oval center only came on the 87-88 V6. My 85GT had the one with the round centers on the left until I replaced it with the ultimate dog bone.
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11:02 PM
JCL86GT Member
Posts: 196 From: Port Charlotte, FL Registered: Oct 2006
85-88 V6 ULTIMATE DOG BONE The "Ultimate" dog bone is made of chrome-moly steel, TIG welded together with polyurethane bushings already installed. This dog bone is less prone to wearing out like the factory dog bone, which is made of aluminum and rubber bushings. Painted black with red bushings, this dog bone will ensure that your engine moves around less and the lower engine mounts last longer.
JOhn ><>
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11:13 PM
buddycraigg Member
Posts: 13620 From: kansas city, mo Registered: Jul 2002
no, i think shawnkfl measurement was pretty dang close to 4"
i'm calling a long time friend /fiero repair guy to tell him i think i have just proven there are 2 different lenghts for the V6 strut. we never could understand why we would sometimes get the wrong size.
Dude you are DA MAN! I will check my '86 GT dog bone when I get home today - if I haven't thrown it away!! Maybe we should be refurbing these with the poly bushings instead of just opting for the ultimate dog bone without measuring anything...
well in this instance 4 and 1/16 will pull the passenger side of the engine towards the back making it cockeyed.
Interesting you say this. Since I installed the izzy 5sp in place of the four I noticed that I had to pull the engine back a little more than when I removed the bone. I used the trany mounts from the 5sp. I noticed a very slite offset in how the engine sets now. Not much but maybe a 1/4 or less between the top manifold and the rear window. Might be how the trans. mounts are setting but don't think I have much adjustment room there. I think there is a small difference in the position of the mount brackets even though eye balling them thay looked the same.
Was wondering how the drive shafts line up between the trans and the hub. My right (short) axle angles rearward a little. Wondered if this was normal or due to tranny being replaced.
Just to be clear I'm talking front to back alignment not up and down.
[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 12-29-2006).]
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10:15 AM
David DeVoe Member
Posts: 1358 From: Grand Blanc, MI US Registered: Jul 2001
I just replaced the engine in my 86SE, using a new front mount and when I got all the bolts in the engine seems to tilt very slightly toward the left side of the car, that is the tranny end sits slightly lower. Looking at my 86GT I'm not seeing that, the engine appears to be level. Both have the original dogbone.
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11:48 AM
tjm4fun Member
Posts: 3781 From: Long Island, NY USA Registered: Feb 2006
FWIW, 88gt. 5spd getrag. engine perfectly flat. new tranny mounts. fairly new engine mount. Measued in car: bolt center to center 4.125" (4 1/8) Housing center to center 4.0625" (4 1/16)
the rubber in my dogbone is soft, I need to find comething to replace it with. Likely I will pull the dogbone one day, bore the center out if it is pinched in, and find some poly bushings that will fit and press them in. the axles appear to go straight out to the wheels, no foward or back pitch. I did leave all the new tranny mounts loose til it was installed in the car, and everything bolted in place, the small amount of play in the bolt holes allow a minute shift I noticed, and seemed to let everything line up better when I reinstalled the cradle. I know this is a different year, but the dogbone in theory is the same for all the v6's, so take it for what it's worth! Tom
[This message has been edited by tjm4fun (edited 12-29-2006).]
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11:52 AM
shawnkfl Member
Posts: 2457 From: Largo, Florida Registered: Oct 2004
i'll go measure both dimensions that you asked for right now, i use my calipers so it's pretty accurate. i have heard that the aftermarket one shown on the right was installed in cases where the engine and tranny mounts were wearing out and they just installed the aftermarket dogbone to take up the play. i don't know what truth there is in that. the aftermarket one was on my 87. i found the stock one that will go back in after the engine is rebuilt. anyway, BRB.
ok. the stock one (red measurement) is 3.7789" on mine
the aftermarket one (orange measurement) is right on 4.000"
this aftermarket one is on here as a writeup on how to bore it out to use poly somewhere too.
[This message has been edited by shawnkfl (edited 12-29-2006).]
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11:54 AM
shawnkfl Member
Posts: 2457 From: Largo, Florida Registered: Oct 2004
just a note, the rubber bushings that were in the one one the right (aftermarket?) were not symmetrical in the oval slots. the were offset and i don't recall wich side they were offset to. it's easy to tell them apart though. just look at the ribs on the beams. they're different.
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12:08 PM
Raydar Member
Posts: 41211 From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country. Registered: Oct 1999
Having said that, I found that my "ultimate dog bone" was ~1/2" too short when I installed my 3.4. (It worked on the 2.8 for some reason.) I ended up putting 2-3 washers behind the dog bone bracket on the engine.
West Coast Fiero will ask you for the length of your dogbone before they sell one to you, think that was also on their site somewhere. My 86 is the exact length as the ultimate dogbone, top one in picture.
My 87 was a different story, it was longer bone in the picture. The ultimate dogbone refused all attempts to get it in so I rebuilt the stock dogbone. I don't know why there was a difference, mounts are ok, sits level and straight, most all of the 87 with auto trans that I have looked at had the longer bone. That is the reason that I decided not to fight it and just rebuild my 87 dogbone.
buddycraigg, I know that the GM manuals say that all V-6 dogbones are the same length. My thought was that it was probably best with the engine straight and level with "wrong?" dogbone than to be way crooked with the ultimate bone.
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11:19 PM
Dec 30th, 2006
buddycraigg Member
Posts: 13620 From: kansas city, mo Registered: Jul 2002
I always thought that the style dog bone on the right with the oval center only came on the 87-88 V6. My 85GT had the one with the round centers on the left until I replaced it with the ultimate dog bone.
This was the assumption I had also been under... I seem to remember Fiero Store selling a rebuild kit for stock 85-86 V-6 dog bones, but not for the later year V-6's. I do know that the casting looks different on them, because litespd's car is an 86, and mine is an 87, and our stock V-6 dog bones are cast differently.
------------------ Nic
Beware the toes you step on today, for they may be attached to the ass you must kiss tomorrow.
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01:09 AM
musicman_L7 Member
Posts: 1149 From: Defiance, Iowa 51527 Registered: Nov 2002
84-86 ENGINE STRUT REBUILD KIT One of the number one causes of premature engine mount failure is a worn out engine strut. This polyurethane bushing kit will replace your worn out rubber bushings in the factory 84-86 engine strut (dog bone). These bushings will last longer than the originals and will keep the engine more stable. NOTE: Fits original 84-86 factory engine struts only. If your strut was changed after 1986, these bushings will not fit.
Part # 52897 | $19.95
They do show a replacement strut (stock) and their "Ultimate" dog bone, which say they cover all years. Who knows what the answer is????
I know that for me personally, one of the best things I ever put on my car was an adjustable dog bone... It is a lot easier to install and remove than the old "Ultimate" that I had. Before, I always had to use an axle strap around the plenum, and a come-along hooked to a beam in my shop, to wedge the engine sideways to install the dogbone. With the adjustable one, I simply had to set it to the proper length and install the bolts. Whammo! Problem solved...
Here's a quick picture of the adjustable dog bone in my car...
Nic
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01:20 AM
StuGood Member
Posts: 3172 From: Wichita, KS, USA Registered: Jun 2000
What I found on 4 samples... (2) 1986 V6 Fieros (one automatic, one 4-speed): Center-to-center distance on unstressed link = 4.00" No part number found on dogbone. (2) 1987 V6 Fiero GTs (both 5-speeds): Center-to-center distance on unstressed link = 4.00" Part number on dogbone: 10046812.
The later style V6 dogbone (no rib) has an oval hole so that the bushing can compress more which, when combined with the later style lower engine mount reduced the amount of vibration transmitted into the chassis and to the passenger compartment. The early style had a round hole and a ribbed housing. They are interchangeable. If the engine is tilted it's because one or both of the tranny mounts is likely bad.
James
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10:55 AM
shawnkfl Member
Posts: 2457 From: Largo, Florida Registered: Oct 2004
I know that for me personally, one of the best things I ever put on my car was an adjustable dog bone... It is a lot easier to install and remove than the old "Ultimate" that I had. Before, I always had to use an axle strap around the plenum, and a come-along hooked to a beam in my shop, to wedge the engine sideways to install the dogbone. With the adjustable one, I simply had to set it to the proper length and install the bolts. Whammo! Problem solved...
Here's a quick picture of the adjustable dog bone in my car...
.JPG)
!
