When changing your stock transmission out for a 4t60e--4spd automatic found in many GM cars, it is required that you use a different axle combination because the width of the transmission is greater. In this post I will detail what worked for me.
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12:14 PM
PFF
System Bot
jeffndebrus Member
Posts: 2772 From: Jacksonville, Fl- usa Registered: Aug 2001
For your drivers side of the Fiero with 4t60e you can use a left axle for a '90 Pontiac 6000 with 4T60 and light duty brakes. It is a stock drop in part and works well.
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12:22 PM
jeffndebrus Member
Posts: 2772 From: Jacksonville, Fl- usa Registered: Aug 2001
For the passenger side you have to use a GM axle part number 9572 which can be ordered by asking for a 1994 Pontiac Transport van right hand axle-4spd automatic 3800. The outer CV joint on this unit is too large to fit the Fiero hub/bearing assembly so it must be removed and exchanged for a Manual Tranny Fiero CV joint. ***Please Be Advised*** some axle remanufactureres are using smaller diameter axles so when you get your Fiero manual cv joint---make sure that the axle which it came off of is a 1.030in axle---NOT the smaller .85in which some are using.-the smaller cv joint will not fit on the minivan axle.
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12:27 PM
jeffndebrus Member
Posts: 2772 From: Jacksonville, Fl- usa Registered: Aug 2001
This is GM part number 9572 axle which is a commonly used part. Notice how large the outer end is compared to our Fiero axles though. This is what we need to change.
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12:36 PM
jeffndebrus Member
Posts: 2772 From: Jacksonville, Fl- usa Registered: Aug 2001
Using a snap ring pliers-locate the snap ring which is snug against the axle itself and rests just inside the star shaped inner bearing race. You will use you pliers to Spread the spring open just a little while pulling on the end of the cv joint. It will slide right off the axle.-The retaining spring remains inside the cv joint.
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12:45 PM
jeffndebrus Member
Posts: 2772 From: Jacksonville, Fl- usa Registered: Aug 2001
Here you see the business end of the CV joint and if you look carefully in the bottom center you may spot the retaining spring which was spread to allow the cv to come loose from the axle.
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12:47 PM
jeffndebrus Member
Posts: 2772 From: Jacksonville, Fl- usa Registered: Aug 2001
In the picture I have installed the Fiero CV joint on the minivan axle by simply lining up the splines and giving it a good push. The end of the axle itself is tapered so this actually spreads the reatining spring for you. When it reaches the proper depth the retaining spring snaps into a groove in the axle and keeps the cv joint in place. Notice the difference in size between the removed and installed cv joints.
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12:52 PM
jeffndebrus Member
Posts: 2772 From: Jacksonville, Fl- usa Registered: Aug 2001
Use degreaser and paper towel to clean up the boot after packing some extra grease inside the boot. Then, when you have the outside clean, use a hose clamp to reseal the boot onto the cv joint.
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12:55 PM
PFF
System Bot
jeffndebrus Member
Posts: 2772 From: Jacksonville, Fl- usa Registered: Aug 2001
Now I am ready to install my custom axle back into my Fiero. I spent about 20 minutes building this axle and three times that changing gloves so I could take pics, and posting them. Don't be afraid to make your own axles--even a dummy like me figured it out.
Well--I see the part made it there and was put to use right away, glad it all worked out for you. This is a good thread being that so many swaps are being done these day, I know when I did my axle setup, I went in blind on what to do. EVERYONE note that this setup it for the 4T60E and not the 4T65E(HD), you build the axle setup the same way but use differant parts. Just so no one goes down the wrong road and ends up with several tore apart axles that are useless to them. There is another thread that I posted in that tells the configuration used for the 4T65e(HD).
[This message has been edited by MstangsBware (edited 11-02-2004).]
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01:23 PM
jeffndebrus Member
Posts: 2772 From: Jacksonville, Fl- usa Registered: Aug 2001
I have run into a problem. The bolt housing on the hose clamp will not clear the pinch bolt tower on the lower control arm. I will have to figure out a way to remedy this problem. Any ideas????
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02:17 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35467 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
Remove the hose clamps, they would have come loose over time anyway. You need to find the right band for the boot. Try www.jcwhitney.com or even any autopart store that carries a replacemnt CV joint boot kit or CV joint boot repair kit, these will have the right band.
[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 11-02-2004).]
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02:47 PM
Kento Member
Posts: 4218 From: Beautifull Winston Salem NC Registered: Jun 2003
I have run into a problem. The bolt housing on the hose clamp will not clear the pinch bolt tower on the lower control arm. I will have to figure out a way to remedy this problem. Any ideas????
OK I Predicted this!!! BEHOLD! HIS NEW AXLE PROBLEM!
------------------ 4.9 Caddy in Garage! Car in Driveway! ACK! **************************************** http://home.cfl.rr.com/fierose Central Florida Fieros http://www.centralfloridafieros.org Proud Member and founder of the DOWN SOUTH SUNNY WINTER PICK ON SNOW PEOPLE COALITION!
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03:24 PM
Raydar Member
Posts: 40727 From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country. Registered: Oct 1999
I have run into a problem. The bolt housing on the hose clamp will not clear the pinch bolt tower on the lower control arm. I will have to figure out a way to remedy this problem. Any ideas????
My first thought was a zip-tie. One of the ones with the metal "catch". Not the all-nylon one. If you can get the correct band, that would be even better.
My concern was that the screw adjustment on the hose clamp would cause an out of balance condition. Not that you'd feel it, but it might tear the rubber after a while. (I hate it when that happens.)
Great thread, though! Thanks for going to the trouble. It looks really easy when it's laid right out in front of you, as you've taken the time to do.
My first thought was a zip-tie. One of the ones with the metal "catch". Not the all-nylon one. If you can get the correct band, that would be even better.
I used large zip ties on my axle build, I bought a set of metal bands but they werent big enough. I was looking to get it in so I just used large zip ties, have seen many others use them also. I was told that Napa carries a kit with the metal bands and the tool to set them but I havent looked into it yet.
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03:47 PM
jeffndebrus Member
Posts: 2772 From: Jacksonville, Fl- usa Registered: Aug 2001
Well, for tonight I just moved the band over far enough to clear the thingamajigger. Maybe later I will change it out. I also worked on trying to flare the tranny cooler lines but screwed up and flared outward instead of inward----they are in an awful place to reach and I worked for like two hrs on just one of them and am unable to complete it. I have now become angry and was screaming and cursing so it is time to stop for today. I need to get cleaned up and go decide which Liar to run our country.--God help us all!
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03:59 PM
paulcal Member
Posts: 2608 From: Jacksonville, Fl Registered: Oct 2002
I stopped by Advanced Auto last night and picked up their last boot clamp band. For some reason they will no longer be stocking these--I guess you will have to purchase the boot replacement kit in the future.--But I am sure there will be other sources like NAPA who will have them. So, today I will replace the hose clamp with the little boot band and my axle project should be finished. Good luck with your project Fiero's!
This thread is valueable for rebuilding any cv unit whether it's an upgrade or other. I like it cause one can use it to troubleshoot stock axles. Well documented and good input from others. A+ for you.
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08:10 AM
88Ironduke Member
Posts: 955 From: Willingboro, NJ Registered: Mar 2002
FYI to those out there. A zip tie IS a suitablable substitute for the OEM metal bands. There is one trick to installing a zip tie on a C/V boot. The contact area between the boot and C/V joint MUST be clean and free of any grease. If there is grease there the boot will pop right off. The zip tie cannot create enough clamping force to hold the boot in place.
Do not use most of clear/white zip ties. I read lots of documentation on the effects of U/V light on them over time causing the zip ties to become brittle. If you're buying the cheap zip ties, you're going to get cheap zip ties. Spend the few bucks and buy heavey duty.
I have used this in many front wheel drive cars and never had a problem of the boot coming off. The boots in a FWD setup see alot more twisting forces due to the steering of the tires. If they stayed on there, then a Fiero shouldn't be a problem at all. Hopefully this may save someone else from fighting with all kinds of clamps and so on.
Just my .02 cents 88Ironduke
------------------ Pilots with out maintainers are just pedestrians with a cool jacket and sunglasses. I.Y.A.M.Y.A.S.
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11:42 AM
Rickady88GT Member
Posts: 10648 From: Central CA Registered: Dec 2002
I just reused the stock clamps. Take them off with care and you can reuse them. Just spred the crimped aria and lift the end of the band off of the "teeth" and it will pop off. To put it back on (it was work and I have done several of them,but some were harder than others) pull the end of the band over the teeth till the holes are in the same location as they were stock. Then crimp the raisd crimping aria. Some bands are welded and cant be reused but they are on the new axles not the old ones.
------------------
Rickady88GT QuadCam 3.5 V6
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12:12 PM
Dec 3rd, 2004
Max The Chainsaw Member
Posts: 1140 From: Danville, IL Registered: Oct 2000
Mine are good. Like I said they are the stock clamps that have been taken off and reasembled. I will say that I also have the hose clamps too. but for the clamps that have verry little room I did use the stock claps. The aftermarket claps that are suposed to replace the stock clamps are carp. I did try them and had no luck. I would rather take off the stock clamps and reuse them then go to Pep Boys and get the crapy replacenents.
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02:00 AM
Dec 4th, 2004
jeffndebrus Member
Posts: 2772 From: Jacksonville, Fl- usa Registered: Aug 2001
Max the chainsaw, thanks for asking. The axle is holding up great. I am driving the 4.9 now and have loged about 140 miles on it so far with various road surfaces and speeds up to 80 mph and have had no problems yet. Thanks Jeff
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12:11 PM
PFF
System Bot
86fieroEarl Member
Posts: 2203 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Jun 2002
Max the chainsaw, thanks for asking. The axle is holding up great. I am driving the 4.9 now and have loged about 140 miles on it so far with various road surfaces and speeds up to 80 mph and have had no problems yet. Thanks Jeff
Your going to get a ticket going that fast unless your on the freeway
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01:51 PM
Kento Member
Posts: 4218 From: Beautifull Winston Salem NC Registered: Jun 2003
Great write up...!!!! I was curious as this is for the 4t60e, will it different if I use a 4t60??
edit: If you are using a 4t60 and the computer is not used to control shifting, what is then used to shift the tranny........??
This post is for the 4t60E version.
The Non E (4t60) uses a vacume modulator to control shifting. The 4t60 uses standard axles from the Manual Fiero and the Pontiac 6000 Non ABS, OD Auto, Light duty Brakes.
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10:50 AM
Mar 3rd, 2005
USFiero Member
Posts: 4873 From: Everywhere and Middle of Nowhere Registered: Mar 2002
Originally posted by jeffndebrus: I stopped by Advanced Auto last night and picked up their last boot clamp band. For some reason they will no longer be stocking these-- But I am sure there will be other sources who will have them.
I found one in the HELP! section at Pep Boys. Nice post, Thanks!
------------------ John DuRette ***Custom 85 under construction, 87 Coupe in the driveway. The fun never ends!***
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09:51 AM
Rborecky Member
Posts: 675 From: Cleveland,Ohio U.S. Registered: Oct 2003
Question??? Does this work the same for a 4T60e HD trans? I see allot of post's saying the Heavy Duty is different and had not noticed you saying HD in any of the post's. Thanks,,Rick B
Question??? Does this work the same for a 4T60e HD trans? I see allot of post's saying the Heavy Duty is different and had not noticed you saying HD in any of the post's. Thanks,,Rick B
The Non E (4t60) uses a vacume modulator to control shifting. The 4t60 uses standard axles from the Manual Fiero and the Pontiac 6000 Non ABS, OD Auto, Light duty Brakes.
BOTH the 4T60 AND 4T60-E transmissions use a vacuum modulator. The vacuum modulator on BOTH transmissions serves only ONE purpose -- line pressure control. On the 4T60, shift points and kickdown are controlled by the TV cable and governor. On the 4T60-E they are controlled by the PCM.
------------------ power corrupts. absolute power corrupts absolutely. Custom Computer Tuning | Engine Conversions | Turbocharging | www.gmtuners.com
[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 03-03-2005).]
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10:42 PM
Jul 10th, 2005
stalen88GT Member
Posts: 472 From: Southern, California Registered: Oct 2004
