Is it posible to construct a custom turbo kit for less than $2500. The kfg kit is 2500, but I would like to save by doing a custom kit.

quote Originally posted by goatnipples2002: Is it posible to construct a custom turbo kit for less than $2500. The kfg kit is 2500, but I would like to save by doing a custom kit.

Yes it most certainly is, but expect to have to cut a few corners, such as use a less than perfect turbocharger, stock exhaust, no intercooler, etc. But yah, it is very possible, but expect to use less than perfect parts all around.

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"What would you do if I came over to your bedroom every morning, stuch a vacuum hose on your wife's nipple, and turned the Hoover on? Huh? Huh?"

What If I got a new turbo.

Used the stock crossover pipe to have the flanges welded to, if this is possible.

And all new hardware? What else is there...a wastegate, bosch blow off valve, a/f gauge, boost gauge.

quote Originally posted by goatnipples2002: What If I got a new turbo. Used the stock crossover pipe to have the flanges welded to, if this is possible. And all new hardware? What else is there...a wastegate, bosch blow off valve, a/f gauge, boost gauge.

Chip for tuning, piping, oil hoses, coolant hoses, etc. It adds up, especially if you are looking to use good parts, like a Tial external wastegate, a decent turbo, a good intercooler, mandrel bent piping, a custom crossover/y-pipe, and a full exhaust.

Cheap, fast, reliable. Pick 2.

I actually wanted to know the same.

What junkyard components could be had to engineer a turbocharger setup that will bring the car to 180-200hp?
Hell, I'd even be happy with 160hp from a turbocharger so long as it could be made reliably without too much on the cost end.

I know of plenty of ways to junkyard-turbocharge a 280ZX, but I don't know of a damn thing so far as GM is concerned.
Can the K-cars turbochargers be cannibalized? Or possibly the turbocharger from a Sunbird turbo? (they made sunbird turbos???) I think a Regal GNX turbocharger might be a bit too large for use on a 2.8L without significant modifications to everything.

Anyways,
So I've picked two, cheap and reliable.

Now what?

-Mulholland GT

The Dodge turbo will work fine the T3 that they use not the Mitsubishi turbo and was what I used on my first trubo project however it has a Dodge specific flange so there are no optional turbine housings.
The T3 turbo used on the 80's mustang, Mercury Mercur, and Saab are perfect for they have the flange design that's most common and has many options.
The Sunbird/Grand Am 4-cyl turbo is wayyy to small I tried one a long time ago.
Here's about what it cost me to do it from Junkyard supply
Core turbo which can actually be a good turbo depending on why the car is in the yard ~ $30 plus $120 for a rebuild kit if you decide to.
Mandrel bent pipe/ modified stainless OE pipe, must be thick enough to handle the heat, so stainless or 14 gauge between engine and turbo ~$60
Connectors/couplers, hoses and other small odds and ends can be salvaged from the turbo car and picked up at a local part store. ~$30
Flange for the turbo you can order or have made locally~$25
Custom exhaust work is up to you, I purchased a MIG welder with tank and did it myself and continue to use it for other turbo projects ~$500
Reciprocating saw ~$40
Engine management; Tunercat program+file ~$80, Programmer (Fancy one)~$250 some less than 100 I believe, Prom eraser ~$30. Or you can see how much you can get away with using stock won't be much or purchase a chip modified for a turbocharged motor, plenty available from someone on the board better yet you can Buy Dennis's engine management system much safer for a beginner MUCH SAFER.

What it costs me now to turbo a car: the cost of exhaust tubing, flanges, and hoses/connectors because I have all of the tools and resources and several turbos that I collected over the years for dirt cheap paying anywhere from ~$15-30, so if I rebuild the turbo and I would I can do a job on my car for $250 or less. It's all in the tools. I also have a hydraulic pipe expander but its an extra, if you buy pipe from a local shop they might do a little expanding free or you can just buy the sizes you need for appropriate exhaust joints if you decide to do the exhaust work yourself.

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 09-02-2005).]

<center>
<a href="http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b166/edsfiero/coolantfitting001.jpg" target="_blank">
<img src="http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b166/edsfiero/th_coolantfitting001.jpg"></a>
</center>The kit I have uses a Nissan Twin turbo Garrett T3 as the turbo. But as you know, the kit has the correct new chip, MAP sensor, all fittings, bolts, etc. And using the kit, you will only go half crazy doing the installation. A home made custom set up, finding parts here and there will put you over the edge.
I think a new turbo will also cost you too much. KFG has rebuilt turbos at OK prices. Ed

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[This message has been edited by Firefighter (edited 09-02-2005).]

The Saab turbos are very good and easy to adapt so that they'll fit. I haven't done a Fiero conversion yet but I've converted a Toyota Starlet 12 valve and a Volvo 343 to turbo using the Saab 9000 T3 AirResearch turbo with external waste and the Saab (plasic) Bosch BOV. I've also done a lot of upgrading on my Ford Escort Cosworth (now pushing 390Hp) so I think I'm ready for the Fiero.
I now have a rearended '00 Saab 9-5 Aero 2.2T with BSR Stage II in my garage and I'm going to use it to convert a Fiero. My plan is to document everything and to make blueprints of all the pipes, fittings and everything needed. The goal is to make everything cheap, reliable and of common parts so I'm not aiming at more than maybe 180Hp.
Getting a turbo donor car makes everything much easier and cheaper. The Saab has a nice oil cooler, intercooler and all the pipes you can ask for. I've looked into swapping the entire engine into the Fiero cause it pushes 275Hp@5500rpm and 448Nm torque but the transmission and ECM-stuff drives me crazy and there is no help to be found on this swap although a GM mechanic told me that the newer engines might bolt up with minor modifications. I don't know how many Saabs you have on your junkyards but overe here there's plenty. I got mine for $500 and the only thing left to buy are bigger injectors for the Fiero (I think).

I WAS gonna try and fab my own kit but the kfg sounds much easier but more $$$$$.

Anything is possible, depend on how many parts you already have laying around. One of the biggest problems with DIY turbo kits for Fieros is the engine management. Yes, alot get by with old school hobb switches running SID and MSD BTMs but thats rather crude. The only way to really do it is stand alone EM. But there goes your budget.

Next turbo Fiero I build will have a TD05H 16g, Tial 38mm external WG, chargecooling and stand alone EM.

Plus from what i understand the KFG kit comes with all the electronics and everything needed.

Hm, that helps a bit, I suppose I should start scavenging for old Saabs and the such or possibly the K-car turbocharger, which might be easier to find.

-Mulholland

quote Originally posted by goatnipples2002: Plus from what i understand the KFG kit comes with all the electronics and everything needed.

only electronics the kit comes with is the 2bar map sensor and a boost gauge.

You can build a turbo system on a Fiero for less than the cost of the $2500 IFG kit (which IMO is a good buy) if you are willing to spend time gathering up all of the parts, choose the right turbo and use the right fabrication shop. First off , ALL of the crossover piping MUST be fabricated of stainless steel. Mild steel tubing won't last under the high heat generated in a turbo crossover. Next you'll need a good rebuilt turbo of the proper size (BTW, KFG and Design One are now supplying rebuilt turbos with their kits) . As Joe indicated the T-3 from the Ford 2.3L will work well but there are many other choices. Ebay is full of values for under $500 and look for turbos that have integral waste gates. You will also need a blow off valve, silicone piping, oil feed and return lines and engine management but remember KFG has not provided engine management in it's kits.
While it possible to do a turbo kit for about $1500, your decison should depend on how much work you wish to put into building the system. Figure the following costs:
Turbo (rebuilt) $500
BOV $25.00
Silcone fittinghs/clamps $40.
Oil return and feed hoses $50.00
Custom SS Crossover 2 " pipe (done by a race car exhaust fabrication shop) $350.00
Engine management $200 - $700 depending on what you want
Larger injectors for anything above 2.8L $200
Gaskets, brackets, misc piping etc $100
and 100 hours labor gathering everything up, measuring, fitting and figuring it all out.

If you advetureous and want to save $1000, go the DIY route. If you want much less work and have it all done for you buy the KFG. If you want headaches, exhorbitant pricing and a headache from a highly unethical supplier, buy from that dispicable, dishonest crook at Design One (who once ripped me off.)

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87GT 3.4 Turbo- 0-60 5.2 seconds -Best
Engine Controls, ECM goodies, Chip
re-programming & odd electronics stuff

I was wondering when Dennis would step in... he is the OG when it comes to DIY turbo kits!

Garrett T3 turbo's from:

Ford Thunderbirds 2.3 l
Mercury Merker xti4 (something like that)

they usually use turbos that are .48 (exhaust) .60 (compressor) in AR sizes, which is a little undersized for a 2.8 but will spool quickly without turbo lag.

-Coop

T3 is entirely too small for a 3.4. TO4E or T3/T4 or T61.

You still have some kits Dennis?

I will look into this further since it can be done for around $1500.

I have a stock 88GT that the only thing I want to do to it is turbo it. I have links to most of the packaged turbo systems that you can buy online but can't find any for build threads for DIY turbo systems. Are there any at all on the Forum or off the Forum? I would want to build something that gets the 200hp that the kits are achiveing is that possible for less than $2500? Thanks

quote Originally posted by goatnipples2002: T3 is entirely too small for a 3.4. TO4E or T3/T4 or T61. You still have some kits Dennis? I will look into this further since it can be done for around $1500.

The Garrett T-3 came in about three or four different sizes all the way up to a .83 A/R compressor. I'm using a T-3 on my 3.4L (actually 3.5L) engine and I can get 20 psi of boost if I wanted to. Remember the Garrett T-3 turbocharger was used on the 3.1L turbo Grand Prix and also on the 3.8L Buick Grand National. With the right size compresor/wheel they are OK for engines up to 3.8L My turbo was originally from the 2.3L Ford but now uses the compressor wheel from the Buick Grand National turbo. WE tried the stock 2.3 size turbo on this engine and it did put out 5-6 psi of boost but we were concerned about over -revving to achieve this boost level so we had the turbo modified by noted expert John Craig of Limit Engineering in Lake Havesu City, AZ. .
We stopped selling turbo kits due to low demand and also due to the headaches generated by a few buyers doing improper installations but now offer performance automatic transmissons, ECM goodies and still doing the repairs that we have always been doing.

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87GT 3.4 Turbo- 0-60 5.2 seconds -Best
Engine Controls, ECM goodies, Chip
re-programming & odd electronics stuff

Thanks RotrexFiero for the write up. As for another question even after reading that write up I am still wondering what general knoweledge base you need to have to be able to figure out how to fabricate a turbo system. I have an idea that its more than you just pick a spot for your turbo and run your exhaust to it and then another pipe to your air intake. Is there any consideration for tube length or specific measurements that you need to have to get the most efficency from the turbo you choose. Also I am unsure as to what to look for in an engine management system. Are EM systems rated for certain output levels or engine sizes, also how can you tell if one is better than the other? Thanks

The issue isn't with the boost levels but with the efficiency of the compressor.

...a pushrod 3.4 that plans to run about 8psi a T04E-54 trim turbo will start to build boost just over idle, 4psi at 1000rpm and will hold 8psi from 2000-7000rpm - hold 16psi from 3000-7000 rpm - and 20psi from 4000-7000rpm. If a T04E-54 trim turbo (basically a t3/t4) does this a T3 will be way out of its efficiency range.

[This message has been edited by goatnipples2002 (edited 09-03-2005).]

.

I will have a turbocharger system up for sale soon. I'm almost finished constructing it. It features a t3/t04e which will comfortably support 25psi on a 2.8 with stock intake and exhaust. Search for my user name in the general chat (might be in archives now). You will see the original kit construction. The difference between that one and this is this one will use a Saab IC under the drivers engine vent. It will also include the the required sensors and ecm tuning. The ecm will also include conversion to use the 29c256 eeprom (makes any burning you will need to do easier later).

I finished the y-pipe last night, I will install the turbo and build the down pipe tonight. I should have this system online and tested (on a pushrod 3.4) with a couple weeks i expect.

Price is 2250 shipped including a 90 day warrenty and 6 months of any computer modifications you would like. fieroracer86 picked up my first kit and seems very happy with it. If interested please let me know!

I think I mentioned that I just got my 3.1 turbo up and running. I am constructing some better induction pipes and came across my old mock-up flange and turbo mount. Also, have mounts I constructed for the Saab intercooler. If anyone is interested please let me know. I can forward a pic if needed. They are nothing special but could help someone doing their own homebrew turbo.

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87 Fiero GT (3.2 Turbo)
E-mail: [EMAIL=david88@peoplepc.com]
www.angelfire.com/pa5/davidfiero/

quote Originally posted by caddyrocket: I will have a turbocharger system up for sale soon. I'm almost finished constructing it. It features a t3/t04e which will comfortably support 25psi on a 2.8 with stock intake and exhaust. Search for my user name in the general chat (might be in archives now). You will see the original kit construction. The difference between that one and this is this one will use a Saab IC under the drivers engine vent. It will also include the the required sensors and ecm tuning. The ecm will also include conversion to use the 29c256 eeprom (makes any burning you will need to do easier later). I finished the y-pipe last night, I will install the turbo and build the down pipe tonight. I should have this system online and tested (on a pushrod 3.4) with a couple weeks i expect. Price is 2250 shipped including a 90 day warrenty and 6 months of any computer modifications you would like. fieroracer86 picked up my first kit and seems very happy with it. If interested please let me know!

That's gonna be the shnit. Finally a kit that will be at home on a 3.4 fiero. Keep that price and you got a future buyer. What about an intro price? What trim on the TO4E?

quote Originally posted by goatnipples2002: The issue isn't with the boost levels but with the efficiency of the compressor. ...a pushrod 3.4 that plans to run about 8psi a T04E-54 trim turbo will start to build boost just over idle, 4psi at 1000rpm and will hold 8psi from 2000-7000rpm - hold 16psi from 3000-7000 rpm - and 20psi from 4000-7000rpm. If a T04E-54 trim turbo (basically a t3/t4) does this a T3 will be way out of its efficiency range.

Some Buick Grand National guys are running 11's using the stock Garrett T-3 Turbo ( but intercooled) that came with the 3.8L engine. That T-3 with the largest compressor wheel is coasting on a 3.4L . Actually it borders on being too big.

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87GT 3.4 Turbo- 0-60 5.2 seconds -Best
Engine Controls, ECM goodies, Chip
re-programming & odd electronics stuff

quote Originally posted by goatnipples2002: That's gonna be the shnit. Finally a kit that will be at home on a 3.4 fiero. Keep that price and you got a future buyer. What about an intro price? What trim on the TO4E?

It's a 57 trim compressor wheel. I sized this one to work very well with the 2.8 or the 3.4. I'm not really looking to 'intoduce' the kit persay. I just enjoy building these things one off and selling them. But I'll work with you on the price. Shoot me a PM or email me at bryan_es@yahoo.com

BBS Designs now has a turbo kit for 2.8 and 3.1 V6 Camaros. http://www.bbsdesigns.net/

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3.4L S/C 87 GT www.fierosound.com
2002/2003/2004 World of Wheels Winner &
Multiple IASCA Stereo Award Winner

So how do they get 450hp out of a 2.8-3.1?? I dont even see an intercooler, so to get those kind of numbers they would have to run more than 15psi.

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87 Fiero GT (3.2 Turbo)
E-mail: david88@peoplepc.com
www.angelfire.com/pa5/davidfiero/

quote Originally posted by RotrexFiero: So how do they get 450hp out of a 2.8-3.1?? I dont even see an intercooler, so to get those kind of numbers they would have to run more than 15psi.

I saw that too. I think it's just "advertising" for the uninformed who don't know any better. I agree - you won't see that with a stock engine.

That looks correct. They are claiming there system will support 450 if your engine will.

But I'll make an offer to anyone reading this thread. I'll match that $1700 dollar price on the Fiero turbo system I've got finished. Got that in it but my 3.4 tdc project is asking me for some coin lol. PM for details. The kit I'm offering uses a Saab IC, BOV, T3/T04E turbo, etc.

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: The Garrett T-3 came in about three or four different sizes all the way up to a .83 A/R compressor. I'm using a T-3 on my 3.4L (actually 3.5L) engine and I can get 20 psi of boost if I wanted to. Remember the Garrett T-3 turbocharger was used on the 3.1L turbo Grand Prix and also on the 3.8L Buick Grand National. With the right size compresor/wheel they are OK for engines up to 3.8L My turbo was originally from the 2.3L Ford but now uses the compressor wheel from the Buick Grand National turbo. WE tried the stock 2.3 size turbo on this engine and it did put out 5-6 psi of boost but we were concerned about over -revving to achieve this boost level so we had the turbo modified by noted expert John Craig of Limit Engineering in Lake Havesu City, AZ. . We stopped selling turbo kits due to low demand and also due to the headaches generated by a few buyers doing improper installations but now offer performance automatic transmissons, ECM goodies and still doing the repairs that we have always been doing.

Come on Dennis, let the secret out. Have you bored your 3.4 to 3.700"? That's what I'm planning, but in an NA application.

What turbo is used in an audi with 5 cylinder engine?