WHAT'S THE HAPS? Any progress?

Oreif, More info on the 3.4 FI build up please.

Chuck

quote Originally posted by triker: I then did the same thing with the upper plenum. [IMG]

This pic actually reminds me of something. If the spacer was made of phenolic plastic, you would have been able to cool down your upper plenum a whole lot which would really help air flow.

It would not help the neck restriction issue where it joins the upper plenum body though. And, it would not help the middle plenum which gets real hot.

Thanks to Oreif for some good data on flow requirements. I can't help but wonder though, if GM did such a great job on the intake, why we seem to need to port the thing.

Arn

Just a thought, since the main restriction in the factory manifold is in the sharp curve going from the upper to the middle manifold, has anyone ever thought of reshaping the inner side of both manifolds?

I'll borrow a couple pics from this thread to illustrate what I mean:

Cutting the inside radius of both manifolds and filling it in farther inward so there is a lot more area in the runners.
This would be a bit of work, but it looks like it would pass more air and still retain a lot of the original design looking at it from above.

No need to call me stupid, I already know that.

max

quote Originally posted by Max The Chainsaw:

Dude, you can't frickin do that! ....... can you?

That's what I was asking.....

Max

I bought an extra stock upper manifold so I could do some mods. The smooth curves and straight-in run of the trueleo look great to me but it's way out of my price range. I'm going to make up a 3" tall transition piece to ease the bend from upper to middle manifolds - extra runner length = extra low-end torque (all my driving is from stoplight to stoplight) and it gives me room to add to plenum underneath, and it'll still look like a stock Fiero intake.

I thought of doing the same but feared the loss of high end torque, but I guess if you want the low end it will work for you.

screw a manifold... run ITB's

Once you enlarge the runner holes you will no longer be able to use stock gaskets...You won't even be able to seal it except with rtv...I'll pass. Many have tried to modify the fiero intake and ALL have failed. And adding a 3" runner extension what do plan to accomplish with that? I can't see it helping any. The runner bend is just one of many problems. You won't increase your flow at the most MAYBE you might increase the runner volume. In order to make a bit of difference you will need to mimic the trueleo as much as possible.

That leaves us with limited options, buy a trueleo or run individual throttle bodies. Ryan falconer, the guy who designed the ITB intake for the 2.8 has a couple left and he will sell the 2 piece aluminum intake for $1500. Gotta pay to play.

To solve the intake's restrictiveness would mean you correct the runner lengths & widths, plenum neck width, plenum volume and flow pattern.

[This message has been edited by goatnipples2002 (edited 11-15-2005).]

the gaskets are just cardboard. you can cut new ones out of a cereal box.

I am tring to follow this thread. So let me throw something out here. The lower and middle intake parts are fine, after a little porting is done. The problem is the upper? Can the center section of the upper intake be widened and shorten the six legs?
Kind of like this -

There are 2 problems: the neck and the runner size. The neck is crimped and doesn't flow enough. The runners in the upper, middle, and lower plenums simply do not flow enough. The lower is easy enough to port, but the middle is harder, and the upper is nearly impossible. The problem triker was trying to address is the very sharp turn that the air has to make between the upper and middle plenums. In addition to that, he will increase the overall volume of the system (as the modded blue intake above also does). More volume is good for torque, but not horsepower. For more horsepower, you want to get the air into the combustion chambers as fast and easily as possible.

It basically comes down to this: speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? You can save money and port your stock manifolds as much as possible and get an improvement. You can get a Trueleo intake and get a big improvement. If you really want to drop a whole paycheck, you can get a Falconer type intake and get a huge improvement. My personal opinion is that the Trueleo is the best option. It addresses all the problems of the stock air intake manifold and bolts in like the original. Can't ask for much more than that.

I'd just like to add something; before I decided to build my own intake (whereas all my many engine mods netted me little because of the 4K wall) we studied the heck out of an extra stock we had and came to these conclusions; as stated by by others, the TB to plenium neck is too thin to open up much and the tight turn from the upper to middle sections is way too restrictive. Adding a spacer is a step in the right direction, however it won't really net much unless you BUILD UP the inside a radius a lot and then reshape it into a smoother turn, and then it still won't be all that great. Yeah to some our intake ent all that pretty (I like it), but it sure is functional as all heck. One other thing usually not mentioned about intakes, a better intake, one that can raise the peak HP RPM limit will also improve gas milage. Before someone says 'yeah right', if you watch the A/F ratio on a dyno (we did) of the a stock 2.8 or 3.4 you'll see it get very rich around 4 - 4.5K. You can read that rich mix as wasted fuel. If you simply shift before that rpm range, well... you'll feel like your driving 1.6 etc 4 banger. BTW: As for looks, we've reduced the number of welds from 4 to 1 on the TB to Plenium tube.

Well, I am going to shave about 1.3" off the intake like Travis (1fst2m6) did and try to get a new neck built and go with a Darrel TB and port the entire intake.
This should cost <$300. If I don't make over 180 rwhp, I will give up and buy a Trueleo.

I'm going to start getting the engine built in Feb or March. I'm waiting to hear about Archie's 6 speed before I get that or a Finale kit... So everything else is on hold until I hear about the 6 speed. I will be buying a GT from the Fiero Factory as the donor for this project in a few weeks.

damn lou by time you pat that 300 you are halfway to the treuleo?????

personally i want the falconer intake but i would need to put 4 checks together for that.

[This message has been edited by goatnipples2002 (edited 11-27-2005).]

Lou, Mind sharing how you plan to shorten your intake.

Chuck

quote Originally posted by vEnOm: Yep, something like this. This was my first choice before the Trueleo intake.

After reading all of this, fabricating something like this is not out of the question. I also think the design beats the heck out of anything else I've seen. My compliments to the fabricator/designer.

It also seems to me that these top pieces could be fabbed out of mild steel tube and simply bolted on.

Just my .02

Arn

quote Arns85GT said: It also seems to me that these top pieces could be fabbed out of mild steel tube and simply bolted on.

AND you could make the whole thing into one big Y-pipe, instead of the seperate pieces that RacerX11 used. I'd rather have one big TB unit over two small ones, anyway.

shave both ends of the middle intake about .4" and the bottom of the upper intake about .3"

This is the opposite of what the poster of this thread is trying to do...

Any progress from anybody?

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: After reading all of this, fabricating something like this is not out of the question. I also think the design beats the heck out of anything else I've seen. My compliments to the fabricator/designer. It also seems to me that these top pieces could be fabbed out of mild steel tube and simply bolted on. Just my .02 Arn

Is anyone selling an intake like this? What would it cost to buy vs the Truelo?

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: AND you could make the whole thing into one big Y-pipe, instead of the seperate pieces that RacerX11 used. I'd rather have one big TB unit over two small ones, anyway.

If you check out my installed pics on the previous page, that is exactly what I did. I made the y-pipe a seperate piece from the intake, it goes around the distributor and Y's into a single 65mm TB.

I thought about dual TB's, but the added complexity of the linkage and idle control wasn't worth it IMO.

Marty