so i was doing some # crunching and decided that if i can cram a 8000 rpm motor into my 86 gt i could hit 200+ mph but now i need to know what motor would be best to push 8000 rpm with confidence and still have power to make my car a decent street machine and not puss out when i need to accelerate hard. would i be better with a sb chevy v8 305 with a good crank and strong rods and light pistons or would a v6 be a much easier option. money is always a issue so please i would like to keep the conversin down to a reasonable price. anyone with a decent idea(s) would be much appreciated.

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86 fiero gt rocking when its running right
87 coupe R.I.P

Pick any motor you want. Any one of them with enough money thrown at them will spin to 8000 rpm with OR without dohc heads.

Id go 3400 or 3.4 dohc both modded to the max

im planning on spinning my 3400 to 7750rpm.

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Member of the Redbar Brigade

Why have i allways been in a gang?!

[This message has been edited by donk316 (edited 10-25-2004).]

I would say your best bet would be the 3.4L DOHC V6. The redline on those is 7000 or 7500 stock and I'm sure with some work you could make it rev higher. They have plenty of power and people who do the swap seem really happy. Not sure how reliable they or any engine would be to 8000rpm (other than some Honda) but hey, it's worth a shot I guess.

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Bottle Fed 4.9 V8 5 Speed

Ecotec 2.2L..... well, 2.0L with Turbo (destroked = more RPM's = more exhaust gas = more power from the turbo)

GM has a destroke kit (100% forged bottom end of course) and is good to about 10,000 RPMs.

Street legal power, I'd say 700HP at the most (using 100 octane of course for that power level). Higher than that, and you're talking two intectors per cylinder, and all sorts of other mods that most likely wouldn't be street legal.

700HP will get you 200 MPH, that's for sure. There was a Saturn Ion that just did 212MPH at Bonneville, smashing Honda's previous record of 189MPH. That's major stuff.

It dyno'd in at 700-something HP, and I'm sure they could have gotten way more, like the drag teams did. Matt (Hartford?) with the RWD Summit racing Cavalier is over 1200HP now on the ecotec, and the FWD cavalier holds the record as the worlds quickest 4 banger car, and is a mere 3/10ths of a second from the time that the V8 Celica holds (RWD btw). I need not say a thing about the drag Sunfire. I think it hit 1,300HP recently.

All in all, the Ecotec is the quickest (accelertion) and fastest (top speed) 4 banger........ever!!!

And guess what? I'm doing a swap as we speak.

Though the 3.4 is a good choice too.

im not looking to do 200 mph all day long but i am very confident that its in range with a motor that will hit 8000 cause at 5500 in 5th gear i get an easy 150 and thats with a fairly stock 2.8 it might take me almost a mile but its fun and i figure a more powerful motor will tear a honda a new one but the braging rights to a 200mph car that cost less than 3000-4000 dollars will be nice. obviously bigger tires will be installed and breaks ect. but 8000 strong is still a nice idea a destroked 350 might be nice. i will have to sleep on it.

both the 34tdc and the northstar can be relatively easily built up to rev to 8000rpm.. on the northstar its a matter of valve springs to rev to 7500 and wrist pins if you spend much time over 7500 to 8000.. on the 34tdc (96-97 model is designed more wide open and stock peak hp is 1000 rpm higher than previous years) that engine with valve springs will go to 7500 and basic blueprint will rev to 8000 from what i understand..

this is a graph of a '96 3.4dohc with a short runner intake box and cam timing adjustment (red) - and stock (blue)

[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 10-25-2004).]

quote Originally posted by vamper68: so i was doing some # crunching and decided that if i can cram a 8000 rpm motor into my 86 gt i could hit 200+ mph but now i need to know what motor would be best to push 8000 rpm with confidence and still have power to make my car a decent street machine and not puss out when i need to accelerate hard.

The other thing you have to look at the you have not yet mentioned in this thread is this; what have you done to make the car Aerodynamically stable enough to do those speeds? sure you may have the power and the gears to do it, but you are still driving a supposed "economy" car, i hope you haven't completely forgoten about the rest of the equation here. that is all

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AIM= Fish100770
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Very true. 200mph requires more than just a high reving engine. Aerodynamics, suspension and braking power are other things to consider.......and a roll cage and proper harnesses.

As far as the original question goes? I'd use a 283 sbc.

is it gonna be turbo or N/A??? turbo would be WAY more streetable. id say go for a 3.4 TDC and get the top end redone and then blueprint the block and im betting youll be well on your way to 10,000 rpm. im thinking your gonna needs something like norms front end(as ugly as i think it is its gotta be useful w/ that HUGE vent) and youll need one of those nice airplane wings from a civic. probably replace the glass on the car w/ some lexan because if you hit a big bumble bee at 200mph then im pretty sure that your gonna have a broken windshield. probably some really expensive tires that can handle it.. i konw that Wynstar has some Z -W rated tires that are good to 189mph. youd have to also make sure that your steering was rock solid at that speed to because what might not be noticed at 50 will be at 100 and at 200 will kill you.

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'86 Fiero GT

My Fiero XoticRydz
Mid-Rear Madness
Member of the "Im Tired Of All The Flame Wars" committee ITOATFW

the imsa wrap around spoiler on the notchy and the waletail on the gt are the most aerodynamic as far as the tests and fiero racing history show.

holly commander controlled northstar with valve spring/cam upgrade and turbo would be an easy 500hp that'd rev nice and high..

keep in mind if you want tog go THAT fast - compare to the other cars that do.. sleek smooth lines, hard sloping windshields, smooth contoured underbody pans, 500+hp, and $100,000+ price tags heck the maclaren with the wing is limited to like 180 vs the stock wingless toping out at 202mph..

quote Originally posted by Soelasca: Very true. 200mph requires more than just a high reving engine. Aerodynamics, suspension and braking power are other things to consider.......and a roll cage and proper harnesses. .

You forgot the most important thing...Horsepower. Just because your engine revs to 8,000 and you have the gears won't get you to 200 MPH. You need the HP to back it up. The wind resistance grows exponentially, as the speed increase . Without wind resistance a bicycle can get over a 150 mph. So as mentioned earlier you are going to need about 700 HP at the wheels.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: You forgot the most important thing...Horsepower. Just because your engine revs to 8,000 and you have the gears won't get you to 200 MPH. You need the HP to back it up. The wind resistance grows exponentially, as the speed increase . Without wind resistance a bicycle can get over a 150 mph. So as mentioned earlier you are going to need about 700 HP at the wheels.

i agree with most of this, EXCEPT the horsepower part, yeah you are right, he'll need a lot, but 700 RWHP?? no way, a lamborghini murcielago can do 200+ with 571 crank HP, and it weighs 4000+ lbs. let's not forget they aren't the most aerodynamic either.

all other things being considered, i'd say 500 HP would get you to 200

quote Originally posted by Soelasca: Very true. 200mph requires more than just a high reving engine. Aerodynamics, suspension and braking power are other things to consider.......and a roll cage and proper harnesses.

You might want to watch the clip of Mercedes' car flipping over at LeMans in '99 before you think about running a Fiero at 200mph:

http://www.endurancesportscar.com/images.htm

Ain't no way I would go 200mph in a Fiero. Of course when you are older like me, you tend to lose the mindset of being invincible.

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Tim
Red 88 Formula Auto 2.8 100K+ Miles

Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence!

quote Originally posted by cccharlie: You might want to watch the clip of Mercedes' car flipping over at LeMans in '99 before you think about running a Fiero at 200mph: http://www.endurancesportscar.com/images.htm

After watching that... I was trying to imagine what was going through the drivers mind....

"Wheeeee!!!! Wheeee!!!! Oh man... this is gonna hurt..... "

quote Originally posted by cccharlie: You might want to watch the clip of Mercedes' car flipping over at LeMans in '99 before you think about running a Fiero at 200mph: http://www.endurancesportscar.com/images.htm

http://www.endurancesportscar.com/photo/clrflip.mpg

I have a 3.4 built to handle 8000 RPM, cost me well over $2000.00, that was just the parts to make sure it could handle it. I would go with a OHC to get those numbers, a pushrod engine will be less reliable for higher RPMs and more costly to make it reliable for that application, trust me on this. When you look into it I am sure you will see that the cost for a new set of valve springs will be a lot cheaper that 90% of the internals of a pushrod engine.

quote Originally posted by cooguyfish: i agree with most of this, EXCEPT the horsepower part, yeah you are right, he'll need a lot, but 700 RWHP?? no way, a lamborghini murcielago can do 200+ with 571 crank HP, and it weighs 4000+ lbs. let's not forget they aren't the most aerodynamic either. all other things being considered, i'd say 500 HP would get you to 200

You might be right, I didn't crunch any numbers, maybe 571 hp at the crank is enough to get a Fiero to 200 MPH. But it's not going to happen with a regular ole pushrod engine pumping out 200 or so horsepower either.

My DOHC soars to 7k, it should gladly got to 8k, but im pretty sure witrh a getrag 7500 RPM is like 218MPH

quote Originally posted by cooguyfish: ...let's not forget they aren't the most aerodynamic either.

Low, smooth...

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My Web page | The Turbo Super Duty Build.

So... in summary, you're going to need either

a) a worked over turbo 3.4 DOHC,
or
b) a worked over turbo northstar

Pick one Either one *should* make 600hp, the northstar being more reliable at that power rating... You're going to need some work done to keep them operating at 8krpm. I also don't think either will make that mark without boost. IIRC, 475 was about tops with cams/polished/ported/you name it N*.

quote Originally posted by cccharlie: You might want to watch the clip of Mercedes' car flipping over at LeMans in '99 before you think about running a Fiero at 200mph: http://www.endurancesportscar.com/images.htm

And just think... that car was designed for that speed.

quote Originally posted by FastIndyFiero: Low, smooth...

I know, it's hard to believe. BUT i'll say this, they should be more aerodynamically stable, no doubt there, but there DRAG coefficient isn't that great. I think it's .31 or .32, with a fiero being .34 (fastback GT), BUT when the lambo hits a certain speed (or temp), to wings stick up to draw more air into the engine compartment, when that happens there DRAG is numerically higher than a fiero. (like .36) but they are still more stable the whole entire time, just the air is slowing it down more than a fiero would.

i'd rather do it in a lambo though.

id be kinda scared to go 200mph in a Fiero id rather have something with a little bit longer wheel base and maybe a little wider too..... Swap in a Northstar and turbo it and maybe upgrade the valvetrain and she'll turn the RPMs of what you want and have the power to move it to a desent speed

i laugh in the face of danger. as my car sits right now i can get it up to and hold over 140 at 5000 rpm this is with a fairly stock 2.8 motor in a fast back body the only problem i have had with stability (mind you that it gets better at the higher speeds) is i have had a headlight door open up at about 145 i plan to "pin them down for faster speeds" i doubt that my fiero has much over 200 hp and does not run the best in the world to get an extra 55mph out of it and do this slowly after i know the motor will handle it wont be so hard a few cranks and tweeks here and their. But seriously how many people can say that they have a car that can do 200 mph and how many hondas do you think i can prove it to! i dont plan to do a motor swap and take it out on the road the first day i plan to slowly work the car up to that speed, It might take weeks to get everything just right. But i have the will i may have the way and i have the old runway to test it all on. still not sure how everything is going to work, but thanks for all the help everyone has given me And all the support. More is always welcome

how does a "fairly stock 2.8" have "not much more than 200hp" ?! What am i missing here?

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Member of the Redbar Brigade

Why have i allways been in a gang?!

from my understanding a stock 2.8 only has like 130-145 hp well a fiero 2.8 is not much diffirent from any other 2.8 except the intake and the roller lifters. I could be wrong but thats what google tells me. i guess that mine is not the golden gem motor that everyone wishes to have in their car i think any fiero with a manual tranny and decent motor should push 140's. i think the automatics have a shut off at about 120 so their out with out mods.

vamper is right a stock v6 2.8 is about 140-146 hp

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modding one day at a time .critique me dont critisize . try to be objective dont troll

quote Originally posted by cooguyfish: I know, it's hard to believe. BUT i'll say this, they should be more aerodynamically stable, no doubt there, but there DRAG coefficient isn't that great. I think it's .31 or .32, with a fiero being .34 (fastback GT), BUT when the lambo hits a certain speed (or temp), to wings stick up to draw more air into the engine compartment, when that happens there DRAG is numerically higher than a fiero. (like .36) but they are still more stable the whole entire time, just the air is slowing it down more than a fiero would. i'd rather do it in a lambo though.

I can belive the CD's...My point was exactly what you said, however. They are more stable. They have a lower CG, lower GFX, less flow under the body, and a smooth underside, at that. Stability is often gained at the sacrifice of drag.

no. you havent done 150 in your mostly stock fiero.

yes i have done 145 at about 5000 rpm with no major modifications except a 4 banger tranny instead of the getrag and a top end motor rebuild. its just the fact that you need to have the "balls" to push the gas.

The driver in that race car died in that crash.
The Fiero wheel base is way to short to be safe at 200MPH. The loger the better, for top speed.
145mph in a "mostly stock Fiero" and a "top end engine rebuild"? No comment

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Rickady88GT QuadCam 3.5 V6

if i keep getting challenged i will get pictures of me going 140+ i have no fear bringing the car to that speed she is very stable and quite fun to drive like that the other speeds i plan to get are all theory with # crunching between speeds and rpms like i said before i dont plan to swap an engine and simply cruse it up to 200 mph cause i can i dont have a death wish. i do what i feal confident in

I've been to 145 in a 3.4 upgrade to the 2.8 - I also had a lowered front end, a hood vent in the notchback (lower drag coefficient)

what you seem to be missing is that drag is not linear, nor is stability.. just because 150 is ok doesn't mean you won't be shitting your pants at 160..

to be stable at speed you need stiff shocks, no slop in the suspension at all, good downforce to resist any crosswind from throwing you around on the road.

if you want to see what it takes ot make a 200+ mph car.. look at the RUF porsches.. or other cars that can do 200mph - that is what you will need to hit 200mph with even remote safety

Okay I think you are missing the point. About 90% of your horsepower is needed to overcome the drag due to the air. That drag increases exponentially. That means you will need 4 times as much power to go twice as fast. It's not linear. Be certain that you will need at least 500 hp at the wheels to be able to go that fast. I'm not saying you can't do it. Obviously you can, but it's going to cost you and is it worth it just to be able to brag about it? I hope you live to tell the story. Good luck.

I would not feel remotely comfortable at 200 mph in a Fiero without a COMPLETE rebuild and modification of the suspension. I agree with Rickady, the wheelbase is too short. I have hit 150mph in my friend's Pontiac Firehawk. It has, however, been lowered, and the suspension is top-of-the-line. It felt rock solid at that speed, but another 10-15 mph and things would have started getting hairy.

That being said, if you do it, good luck.
Nate

PFF, the suicide assistance forum...

back to the engine question.
did somebody really mention a 305?
do you realize it has a smaller bore and same stroke as the 350?
worthless (the price at the yard too i know)
maybe the 302 would work well. short stroke good bore. real factory screamer.
it is really basic to build a plain old 350 to hit 8,000 rpm. with 500+hp
reliable? how long do the nascar boys hold it around 8k? couple hours should do nicely.
remember they are making well more than 500hp with a TWO barrel carb.
dollar for dollar, if you are hunting for 600 hp, sbc is a sure and reliable bet.
yeah it will cost ($6000) but there are sure methods of doing it allready.

now lets see some speeeeeed!

One more question:

If you can MAINTAIN 145mph with 200hp, I suspect you can maintain 200mph with 380hp (assuming drag is 2nd order).

However, it will take much more than that to get there in a reasonable distance. How long a straightaway do you have? And what brakes are you using to stop?

I have a abandoned road that i can use that is very smooth and straight its on property that a friend of mine owns now. Its almost a 4 mile rd blocked from public traffic with corn feilds all around it. a fairly safe area for this test. The brakes are just rebuilt stock brakes right now but i was going to get a set of cross drilled aftermarket if anyone has any good brands with comments about them please share. also if anyone knows of any decent shocks and springs to use for a reasonable price.

quote Originally posted by vamper68: I have a abandoned road that i can use that is very smooth and straight its on property that a friend of mine owns now. Its almost a 4 mile rd blocked from public traffic with corn feilds all around it. a fairly safe area for this test. The brakes are just rebuilt stock brakes right now but i was going to get a set of cross drilled aftermarket if anyone has any good brands with comments about them please share. also if anyone knows of any decent shocks and springs to use for a reasonable price.

ket me know where to send the funeral card to. cause theres no way in hell i'd trust stock brakes with those speeds. get the vette upgrade. always spend money on stopping before going. and there is no reasonable price for what you are talking about. its your life you're talking about here; dont cheap out on anything.