Hello all, sorry I havent been able to give any updates of the car. I have been helping
my wife for the last 2 months because she broke her leg in 5 spots! Believe it or not.
Well, anyways, she is able walk with a boot and I have time to start working on the car
again. I am trying to get the vacumm diagram for a 1995 3.4 TDC. If anyone has a pic
can the post. Also, I am looking at the line in the pic and was curious if anyone knows
where it goes to? And last I am trying to find out what lines go to the vapor canister. If
anyone has any pics of theirs it would be helpful. Thanks in advance.

Joshua

P.S. Thank you ltlfrari for the pic. My digital camera is acting up right
now and this was the best I could find for what I needed to ask.

Joshua

That line will plug into your rubber intake hose. Its just a crank case vent. It comes from the "lifter" valley and the top of both heads.

Vacume lines on this motor are very simple compared to the fiero's 2.8

quote Originally posted by crzyone: That line will plug into your rubber intake hose. Its just a crank case vent. It comes from the "lifter" valley and the top of both heads. Vacume lines on this motor are very simple compared to the fiero's 2.8

a good candidate for a one way check valve to only allow it to suck in clean air not blow oil into the intake - then the other line can be sent through a catch can before going to the intake, (to clean the oil mist out of the air before allowing the engine to suck the blow-by fuel vapors back in to be burned)

That line is a breather vacuum line, and it does not ever combine with the line from the "lifter galley," aka dummy cam cover. These two lines are seperate. There is one hose that runs from the passenger side of the front valve cover, and it snakes to the back of the engine, and runs underneath and behind the plenum. Once in back, it makes a T with a similiar line form the rear valve cover, and they go together into a single line. This line runs up and to your intake pipe, after the filter and before the throttle body.

I hope this helps, I'd get ya pics if I could. Also bear in mind that my designation of front and rear is with the engine in its standard FWD setup. So the front valve cover is also in front on a Fiero, the one directly behind the seats.

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1992 Lumina Z34 5-speed
14.78 @ 92.688, high 13s at sea level
1992 Lumina Z34 5-speed
Stock, new crate engine and trannsmission
3.4L TDC V6 getting built with a Whipple 3300AX supercharger for a 88GT

Sorry, your right, not sure what I was thinking.... Still waking up I guess.

Here is a picture that may make more sense.

Here's my vapour can setup. I used a can from a 95 cutlass supreme, same as my engine, ruddy big thing it is too..

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Dave E

www.ltlfrari.com
Visit the NC Fieros website at TarheelFieros.org

Thanks for all the responses guys. It all makes sense now. LOL I think
I was trying to hard before. "+"s for all of you. I am going to try and get mine
started by Wednesday afternoon. If I cant get it buy then it will be put on hold
because I am going to Spain and France for 2 weeks. Thanks again for
the responses.

Joshua

I guess you could modify the Fiero can to work with the 3.4. On my fiero 4 banger the valve is part of the can and vacuum operated so there are two vac lines that go to it I think, one to operate the valve, one to extract the fumes, plus of course the line from the tank breather. Guess you could remove the vac operated valve, block off the hole and that would leave you with two lines, one to the tank breather and one to the solenoid.
Or, maybe you could eliminate the solenoid and just feed the two vac lines into a single one that then went to the plenum, any vac would open the valve and suck in the fumes thru the same line. Not sure how well that would work and I think the ECM want to see the solenoid anyway otherwise it will throw a code.

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Dave E

www.ltlfrari.com
Visit the NC Fieros website at TarheelFieros.org

OK, I will look into getting a different canister. Do you know of any other cars
I may pull this from and have work without all the headache? I would get one
like yours but I rarely see 1995 oldsmobiles in the junkyard. I do see a lot of 95+
grand ams. Thanks again Ltlfrari you have been a big help.

Joshua

Thanks ltlfrari, that answers my question bout using the Fiero can. I'll give it a shot anyways and if not, I'll probably be following in your footsteps...

is it a bad thing if i dont have this system hooked up to my car?? I think that i still have the pieces laying around, so should i make this work? I just blocked off the line from the tank and removed all of the fieros extensive vac canister accesories including that huge metal tank in the passenger side wheel well. i guess i was trying to remove some more weight from the engine bay and un-clutter it some more. I noticed that i have to leave the gas cap not tight all of the way otherwise pressure builds up, but is that all that this system does? ive been thinking about re-installing it, so i just need some opinions. Also, on the vaccume block where the map would go (i dont have the map) i have the one line going to the FPR, is there any other lines that i should have hooked up? I think that one was for the tranny but there might have been another emissions related line in there??

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REMEMBER: If you cant win the race you loose the argument!!

3.4 DOHC Motor Swap-14.7 in the 1/4 mile with no hook-up, crumby exhaust and automatic chip.
Better exhaust, chip, cam retarding, and driver to come... I'm feeling lucky!
www.geocities.com/j_depies

since this topic is vaccum lines, i need my own questions answered.

first, in my pic what does the line with the yellow go to?
it looks like it would go to air intake hose, part of it tee's off into the head.

second, in the pic what does the line with green around go to?

third, i also need a evap cansister. what car should i be looking for?

thanks...

quote Originally posted by Tom Slick: since this topic is vaccum lines, i need my own questions answered. first, in my pic what does the line with the yellow go to? it looks like it would go to air intake hose, part of it tee's off into the head. second, in the pic what does the line with green around go to? third, i also need a evap cansister. what car should i be looking for? thanks...

well yellow is the same line that started this thread

not sure about the green

and is the evap really that necessary? isn't it just an emissions deal? the gas tank already has a vent line at the filler right?

i was thinking about going that way. But then i thought that maybe i should be doing something more complex. Is the only reason for evap system so that the gas fumes dont leak into the air?

quote Originally posted by fieromadman: i was thinking about going that way. But then i thought that maybe i should be doing something more complex. Is the only reason for evap system so that the gas fumes dont leak into the air?

pretty sure its just for epa emissions so that you aren't venting gas fumes to the atmosphere - same with the crank case vent vs pcv valve setup

quote Originally posted by Tom Slick: since this topic is vaccum lines, i need my own questions answered. first, in my pic what does the line with the yellow go to? it looks like it would go to air intake hose, part of it tee's off into the head. second, in the pic what does the line with green around go to? third, i also need a evap cansister. what car should i be looking for? thanks...

thanks for the replies...

i found out the green one goes to the evap canister.

i'm looking at the vacuum diagram from LtlFrari website and see that two lines that come off the MAP sensor.
one goes to the check value (which tees off to HVAC and cruise control servo) and the other goes to the transmission vacuum modulator. if i don't have a/c or cruise what do i need to this line and what is the transmission vacuum modulator do?
since i'm running a 5 speed do i still need this and how do i get rid of it if necessary.

thanks,
thomas...

Tom, you do not need the transmission modulator line. I unbolted to the two
tiny screws and took my completely out. Then I just capped it with an end cap
from Autozone. You can get a little pack for a couple of dollars to do this. As
far as the other line goes I do not know. If you do not need them I do not see
a reason why you shouldn´t be able to cap it as well. Sorry I can´t post any
pics right now but I am visiting Spain and France right now for a Basque Field
Study. I am sure someone can explain a little more about the HVAC line.

P.S. - I should be back working on the Fiero by Sunday. I can´t wait! It´s
like I´m addicted or something. LOL

Joshua

quote Originally posted by Tom Slick: thanks for the replies... i found out the green one goes to the evap canister. i'm looking at the vacuum diagram from LtlFrari website and see that two lines that come off the MAP sensor. one goes to the check value (which tees off to HVAC and cruise control servo) and the other goes to the transmission vacuum modulator. if i don't have a/c or cruise what do i need to this line and what is the transmission vacuum modulator do? since i'm running a 5 speed do i still need this and how do i get rid of it if necessary. thanks, thomas...

the way I have mine routed - the little vacuum block on the 94-95..under the 91-93 stock map.. one line goes to the MAP that used to go to the tranny, the other line goes to the fuel pressure regulator..

there is a line that goes from the vapor canister to the solenoid then back to a connection under the crankcase vent line from the pcv valve.
I cut a 1" section ouf of my lines going to the valve covers and installed one way check valves that will only allow fresh air in and not allow oil from the valve covers to get blown back into the intake.. I'll be taking the crank case line to the PCV valve and splicing into it an placing an oil catch can where the power stearing pump used to be.. can you tell I hate getting oil into the intake? the DOHC really has a nice simple vacuum setup

quote Originally posted by joshuaz99: Tom, you do not need the transmission modulator line. I unbolted to the two tiny screws and took my completely out. Then I just capped it with an end cap from Autozone. You can get a little pack for a couple of dollars to do this. As far as the other line goes I do not know. If you do not need them I do not see a reason why you shouldn´t be able to cap it as well. Sorry I can´t post any pics right now but I am visiting Spain and France right now for a Basque Field Study. I am sure someone can explain a little more about the HVAC line. P.S. - I should be back working on the Fiero by Sunday. I can´t wait! It´s like I´m addicted or something. LOL Joshua

sorry, i need pics please...

quote Originally posted by Kohburn: he way I have mine routed - the little vacuum block on the 94-95..under the 91-93 stock map.. one line goes to the MAP that used to go to the tranny, the other line goes to the fuel pressure regulator.. there is a line that goes from the vapor canister to the solenoid then back to a connection under the crankcase vent line from the pcv valve. I cut a 1" section ouf of my lines going to the valve covers and installed one way check valves that will only allow fresh air in and not allow oil from the valve covers to get blown back into the intake.. I'll be taking the crank case line to the PCV valve and splicing into it an placing an oil catch can where the power stearing pump used to be.. can you tell I hate getting oil into the intake? the DOHC really has a nice simple vacuum setup

sorry, need pics please...

quote Originally posted by Tom Slick: sorry, need pics please...

lol fine fine.. I've decided the one-way-check valves are too stiff and restrict flow too much - so instead I'm going to use a second PCV valve where the lines plug into the intake tube.. its a simple gravity check valve system that way.. I'll take pics

Tom, if you can wait until tomorrow I will take some pics for you. I am on duty today and wont be getting
off until 1200 tomorrow.

Joshua

thanks guys... i can wait on pics, my car ain't going anywhere at the moment.

thanks,
thomas...

tooks some pics last nigth but ran out of time to upload them.. I also realized my pics may not be of any help to you since I've changed my routing, and moved the purge solenoid to where the EGR used to be.

Tom, here are the photos you wanted.

The first pic shows where the vac modulator line comes out on the driver side.

The second pics shows where it runs through between the heads. Where the two
circles are there is only 1 tiny screw and those two are the only thing holding that
whole line on. Unbolt them, take out, and plug the line. Sorry it took so long.
Hope this helps.

Joshua

thanks joshua... like they say a picture is worth a thousand words.

thomas...

No problem.

quote Originally posted by ltlfrari: Here's my vapour can setup. I used a can from a 95 cutlass supreme, same as my engine, ruddy big thing it is too..

i'm trying to setup my evap cansister but i can't find the return line back to the fuel tank.
i'm also trying to find a place to mount it i like where ltlfrari put his but i was wondering
if i could hide it somewhere. i was thinking behind the wheel well on the passenger side,
the driver side is no good since i will have my air filter down next to the inlet scoop.
is there a rule that the evap cansister has to sit higher than the fuel tank and does it
have to mount vertical. i was wanting to mount it low or on it's side.

thanks...

If you have a Fiero with the larger fuel tank, and thus have an expansion tank behind the right side quarter panel (take out the inner wheel well, you'll see it) then you will have to have it higher than that so that liquid fuel cannot easily get to the canister. Otherwise as long as its above the fuel tank it should be okay, though being lower will still make it more prone to getting liquid fuel especiall if you top off the tank. This will ruin the evap canister. Not sure if it has to vertical, but I've never seen one sideways in an original factory setup.

I relocated mine right next to the C500. With the decklid vents in place it cannot be seen, and hooks right up to the rubber line coming off the expansion tank with a line coupler.

It really cleans up the trunk wall and the left side of the engine comparment, since there's no more hard lines running all over the place. I'm going to mount the evap purge solenoid right next to the tank to minimize the length of the vacuum lines. To use the stock Fiero canister I think you can just T together the two small lines so that when it pulls a vacuum it also draws the vapor through the same line. The large line goes to the fuel tank (pre-87) or fuel expansion tank (87-88 that have the large fuel tank)

thanks steven.
do you have photo of the expansion tank cause i can't find mine (i have an '88).
the previous owner probably took it out, if thats the case do i need to add it back?
i did get under the car and looked for a return line, nothing. i did see a connection
around the tank that looks like where the return line should be.

i guess i need to figure out where to place my evap cansister. i want it hidden since
it's so big.

thanks...

There is no return line from the evap can to the tank. The vapour comes from the tank line to the can where it gets absorbed. When the engine is running (and the valve is opened either by the ECM or engine vacuum depending on our setup) the intake sucks air thru the can drawing the stored vapurs with it.

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Dave E

www.ltlfrari.com

okay... i'm confused.
in your photo
you have a line that goes to the fuel tank breather, where is that?

on the evap can there's a connection that says "tank" on it.
i thought a line went from there to the fuel tank to vent.

since my car doesn't have the expansion tank on it what do i do now?

thanks...

On my car there are three lines that come from the tank to the left side of the engine bay. One is fuel feed to engine, one is return to tank, other is tank breather. I just hooked up the vent marked 'tank' on the can to the breather line to the tank. Other line on can goes to solenoid valve, thence to plenum. I don't have an expansion tank on mine either (85 car).

thanks for the explaination.

since i can't find my breather line to the tank. i found a line that might be it
above where my fuel lines go into the tank could that be the breather line.

my other question, does the evap cansister need any special consideration
on where i mount it. i was wanting to mount in the passenger rear wheel
well. it will be mount as high as i can get it from the looks of it will be
about the same height as the battery (if it was still there).

btw: i like the bracket you made for your evap cansisiter.

thanks...

Here is what I did for the evap system. The EVAP canister is the same on all w-body cars. I was able to modify the bracket that held on the Fiero EVAP canister so that it fit the larger w-body canister. I was even able to bolt it into the stock fiero location. I have the hoses hooked up based off what the can says on the bottom. One goes to the tank and the other goes to the EVAP solenoid which I relocated to where the EGR solenoid used to be before I removed it.

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Chris

3.4 TDC SWAP COMPLETED...this is going to be a fun car

thanks for the pics.

okay, this may be a dumb question on my part cause i haven't seen a
3.4 TDC evap cansister in a real car. is your cansister upside down?
i only ask cause ltlfrari has his the other way. now i'm really confused.
does it matter which end is up?

thanks...

quote Originally posted by Tom Slick: thanks for the pics. okay, this may be a dumb question on my part cause i haven't seen a 3.4 TDC evap cansister in a real car. is your cansister upside down? i only ask cause ltlfrari has his the other way. now i'm really confused. does it matter which end is up? thanks...

good question!! Which way up is correct and does it matter?

I was positive I had mine installed the way I pulled it out of the grandprix until I saw ltlfrari's setup. I will have to search around some more to double check which end is up.

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Chris

3.4 TDC SWAP COMPLETED...this is going to be a fun car