I'm thinking about a SBC swap. I meet a local guy who has a 350 and 327 for sale. Both are rebuilds with less than 40K.
He's a kit and custom car builder and suggests the 327 is the better choice for a Fiero for the simple fact - he states, the 327 is approx. 6 inches shorter than the 350 and will allow more room between the frame rails. He's talking $500 for either, complete minus the carb. I've been talking about pulling my 2.8L to clean it up, fix some leaks and paint it and the compartment. I like the 2.8L being factory and all that, that entails and that I understand it will get 35 mpg. A SBC will cost me some money in the swap and in gas, but sure looks like more fun. Input please.

Both engines are phisically the same size unless one isn't a sbc. The 350 is better, there is a reason they switch back in 69, more cubes more torque. Think of the 350 as a stroker compared to the 327. I believe they have the same piston diameter. That being said, the 327 with a stout valve train should be able to rev higher than the 350

[This message has been edited by crzyone (edited 04-22-2005).]

what he said.

Furthermore: a person who would tell you the 327 is shorter than a 350 is not someone I would buy a "rebuilt" motor from.

Russ

quote Originally posted by Russ544: what he said. Furthermore: a person who would tell you the 327 is shorter than a 350 is not someone I would buy a "rebuilt" motor from. Russ

ha ha ha..
so true...

for it to be 6" shorter, it would have to be missing 2 pistons.

A 327 will rev faster than a 350 as it has a 3.25 stroke compared to the 350's 3.48 stroke, something to concider if your setting it up as a high winding top end motor with a steep geared trans

The question as to the 327 is what year it is. 67 and earlier were 283 blocks bored over to fill up to 327 cubic inches.
The 68-69 blocks were unique and the hot ones only came in the vette I believe. They are the best by far. Run the numbers on ANY block before you buy it. If you don't, you may be buying a POS that has a golden story and nothing more.

Like these guys already said, anyone that tells you the block is shorter, longer narrower and such than any other SBC is full of BS.
Mind your money on this one.

My .02 cents.
88Ironduke

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Pilots with out maintainers are just pedestrians with a cool jacket and sunglasses.
I.Y.A.M.Y.A.S.

I just measured my 454 here. It's really weird, .... It's 6" shorter than my 350 ! - Just kidding. Of course the 454 is a monster (in width) but I agree with the other posts. Other than some "possible" pulley differences, they are in fact the same size. I've had (2) 327's (one bored to 331 cid) and many 350's. I've run Big Blocks only for many years now and firmly abide by the old saying:

There's no replacement for displacement.

Either one would make for a nice powerplant for your car but the 350's displacement is always a plus . As far a "revving", higher RPM etc, you'll never notice. 350's "wind up" just as fast "by ear" as a 327. I've never had anyone stop me and say "Boy, that sounds like a 327. The differnece in "Sound", RPM's is very minimal in my opinion. The last small block I built for a co-worker was a 383 stroker. 2nd one I've built and talk about a nice little "torque monster". Solid, moderate revving and an overall fantastic powerplant. A little more pricey than a 350 build and not "a ton more HP" but a nice sounding and driving powerplant.

A lot of people love that de-stroked, high revving sound but give me the low, smooth RPM's of a big block any day. (not in the fiero of course). I could care less about the high revving sound. The 455 I have in my 79 T/A will literally pull a house down. Torque is your friend !

[This message has been edited by 3084me (edited 04-22-2005).]

I agree with 88IronDuke.

As far as I know, the 3 main methods to get 327cid are:

1) Bore out a 283
2) Stroke a 305
3) Destroke a 350

#3 is the rev-happy motor. #2 is a boat anchor. Not sure about #1. And yeah, the old Vettes had a 327cid / 300HP option... or maybe it was 327 / 350... can't remember.

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 04-22-2005).]

If I remember correctly, Many years back, a few locals were doing "strange" builds like 350 Block, 307 Crank or 350 / custom build w/ 283 crank and 350 rods. I was always into Big Blocks - Chevy and Olds . These were the same "guys" building the "ever popular 415 super mouse motors". A little before my time but If I remember right it was 400 block, custom crank and rods. - Nice in theory but too much work for not enough HP. These guys would spend months on these builds and 396's and 454's would eat them up with a just a cam and headers. I guess I'm straying off topic now..

You could get a factory early 60s Corvette with 375 hp 327. We raced a supermodified (sprint type car for northerners) with 327s and we could run 9-10K in them all night long and that was in the late 60s. They sounded like model airplane engines.

So, where do I look on the block for the #'s and is there a good website to look up what I find?
If this is a rebuilt 327 from a vette, will I be able to tell ?

quote Originally posted by ApexNC: So, where do I look on the block for the #'s and is there a good website to look up what I find? If this is a rebuilt 327 from a vette, will I be able to tell ?

http://www.mortec.com/ gives alot of info on casting #s

[This message has been edited by Erik (edited 04-22-2005).]

I believe a 283 crank in a 350 block makes a 302? Awesome high reving motor. Build it with aluminum heads and a stout valvetrain and it would be a great fiero motor. Lower torque than a built 350 but just as much hp developed through rpms. 8-9k rpm in any sbc sounds awesome, like a nascar.

quote Originally posted by crzyone: I believe a 283 crank in a 350 block makes a 302? Awesome high reving motor. Build it with aluminum heads and a stout valvetrain and it would be a great fiero motor. Lower torque than a built 350 but just as much hp developed through rpms. 8-9k rpm in any sbc sounds awesome, like a nascar.

I agree the Fiero needs a high rev oversquare motor and if your going to put a SBC in it it might as well be a 302

[This message has been edited by Erik (edited 04-22-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Erik: A 327 will rev faster than a 350 as it has a 3.25 stroke compared to the 350's 3.48 stroke, something to concider if your setting it up as a high winding top end motor with a steep geared trans

It will not rev faster, but it has the possibility to rev higher. The 350 will still rev faster to redline, it simply has more power, and the power gains offset the heavier, bigger engine internals, thats why people stroke their motors. Also, the 327 won't directly rev higher than the 350. But it has the potential to rev higher, but in stock form, both should only rev to 6.

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quote Originally posted by AaronZ34: It will not rev faster, but it has the possibility to rev higher. The 350 will still rev faster to redline, it simply has more power, and the power gains offset the heavier, bigger engine internals, thats why people stroke their motors. Also, the 327 won't directly rev higher than the 350. But it has the potential to rev higher, but in stock form, both should only rev to 6.

sorry but yes it will rev faster due to the shorter stroke

Oh, BTW a short stroke engine like the 327 is a prime candidate for forced induction.

quote Originally posted by Erik: sorry but yes it will rev faster due to the shorter stroke

Power is an engine's ability to move from one RPM to another, essentially. Assuming two vehicles, let's say both Corevttes, smae gear ratios, both redlining at 6,000rpm. You are telling me that the 327 will eb faster than 350? Becuz since it revs faster, it makes mroe power, right? However I think ti has eben proven that displacement in the form of stroke (or bore...) outweighs the consequences (heavier rotating mass). The power gained enables the car to rev faster, becuz it has more power to put into climbing from one RPM to another, therefore revving faster.

If the 327 revved faster than any other same-bore SBC, why do people do strokers? Why are the SBC kits reloacting the cam, and totally casting a new block, just to get more displacement? It's simple--Displacement=power, and power is the ability to run from one RPM to the next (assuming trannsmissions are equal), so you are trying to say that displacement doesn't equal power by saying that a block with less power will rev faster.

[This message has been edited by AaronZ34 (edited 04-23-2005).]

I once baught a 327 for my 72 Jimmy, Turns out it was a 283 and in the heavy blazer it felt like a 4 cylinder.

quote Originally posted by AaronZ34: Power is an engine's ability to move from one RPM to another, essentially. Assuming two vehicles, let's say both Corevttes, smae gear ratios, both redlining at 6,000rpm. You are telling me that the 327 will eb faster than 350? Becuz since it revs faster, it makes mroe power, right? However I think ti has eben proven that displacement in the form of stroke (or bore...) outweighs the consequences (heavier rotating mass). The power gained enables the car to rev faster, becuz it has more power to put into climbing from one RPM to another, therefore revving faster. If the 327 revved faster than any other same-bore SBC, why do people do strokers? Why are the SBC kits reloacting the cam, and totally casting a new block, just to get more displacement? It's simple--Displacement=power, and power is the ability to run from one RPM to the next (assuming trannsmissions are equal), so you are trying to say that displacement doesn't equal power by saying that a block with less power will rev faster.

Take a small ball and a large ball and roll them across the floor at the same time at the same speed. The smaller ball will have to complete more revolutions than the larger ball to stay along side of the larger ball. Thats because the circumference of the smaller ball has less stroke per revolution than the larger ball therefore it spins faster to achieve the same rate as the larger ball to do the same amount of work. Its just like comparing torque to horsepower.

Example ..If you take a Fiero and put a set of 205/55/16s on the rear they will allow the motor to rev up quicker than if you had a set of 225/55/16s on it.
Thats because the circumference of the 205/55/16's are smaller ,therefore they have less area to cover to complete one revolution than the 225/55/16's do which will allow the motor to rev up more quickly
Your using a car with the same power as a test so that parameter is the same in the 2 tests

Sure you can build a stroker to rev quick but it wont be as friendly on the reciprocating assembly as a short stroke, wont be as efficient for high rpm use nor will it rev as quickly given the same power levels. Thats most of the main reasons why F1 uses short stroke oversquare motors with long rods as it keeps the piston speeds down and allows the motor to rev freer .

[This message has been edited by Erik (edited 04-23-2005).]

.
oh never mind.

[This message has been edited by buddycraigg (edited 04-23-2005).]

just check the block and make sure it has the mounting holes under the water pump for the Archie kit.

I agree with Erik, just do a 305 and be done with it
You can have the best of both worlds that way.

quote Originally posted by ApexNC: I'm thinking about a SBC swap. I meet a local guy who has a 350 and 327 for sale. Both are rebuilds with less than 40K. He's a kit and custom car builder and suggests the 327 is the better choice for a Fiero for the simple fact - he states, the 327 is approx. 6 inches shorter than the 350 and will allow more room between the frame rails. He's talking $500 for either, complete minus the carb. I've been talking about pulling my 2.8L to clean it up, fix some leaks and paint it and the compartment. I like the 2.8L being factory and all that, that entails and that I understand it will get 35 mpg. A SBC will cost me some money in the swap and in gas, but sure looks like more fun. Input please.

It just occurred to me: is it possible that somehow he/you got some wires crossed and he is talking about a 4.3??? Because that WOULD be about 6" shorter and it is EASY to 'compare' it to a 350; it uses a lot of the same parts - it is a sawed-off 350!!.
And I know in road racing trim ($pelled 'big buck$) guys are getting 500+ reliable hp out of them. You can get ALL kinds of speed equipt for it too (hey; it is a baby 350)

Just a thought.

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: I agree with 88IronDuke. As far as I know, the 3 main methods to get 327cid are: 1) Bore out a 283 2) Stroke a 305 3) Destroke a 350 #3 is the rev-happy motor. #2 is a boat anchor. Not sure about #1. And yeah, the old Vettes had a 327cid / 300HP option... or maybe it was 327 / 350... can't remember.

Not correct. You would have to DE-stroke the 305 and bore it out to 4.000" as well. This seems to be a common misconception here that the 305 has a shorter stroke than the 350 when in fact the stroke is the same 3.48" and it is the bore of a 305 that is smaller than the 350. Note though that even though the stroke is the same for a 305 and 350 the cranks are different (the counterweights are not the same). The 302, 327 and the 350 are all 4" bores. And while it is possible to bore a 283 to 4", it is not always advisable. If you did bore it to 4" you would have a 302 if you used the 283 crank, you would still need a small journal 327 crank to make that bored out 283 into a 327. 283 has a 3" stroke. 302 has a 3" stroke. 327 has a 3.25" stroke. Most 283s do not have enough wall thickness to take such a big overbore. small journal 327s were cast with more material to make the 4" bore work.

[This message has been edited by TONY_C (edited 04-23-2005).]

All said...... There's + and _ for each engine.

Now, whether or not you should buy the engines?
If that 327 is a small main journal 327 it can be used to make a 302. (it's worth $$$) If you can get it for $500, buy it. Somebody will want to pay $$ for it in the future. You might even want to do up a 302 yourself.

Whoever is selling those engines either doesn't know what he is talking about or is a liar.Either way I wouldn't buy anything from them!

I don't know if its just me, but I think a 383 belongs in a truck. The fiero doen't need gobs of torque, torque breaks transmissions. I would rather have a 302 or N* which have lower torque but make the same HP through rpms. They are also more fun to drive and you get more use of the lower gears.

I love high reving motors. I've been in 383 and 406 fieros. They were downright scary 0-60, but they are very hard on the drivetrain.

Make sure the 350 isn't an olds or pontiac 350, I blieve they are physically bigger and will not install with Archies kit.

[This message has been edited by crzyone (edited 04-23-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Soelasca: All said...... There's + and _ for each engine. Now, whether or not you should buy the engines? If that 327 is a small main journal 327 it can be used to make a 302. (it's worth $$$) If you can get it for $500, buy it. Somebody will want to pay $$ for it in the future. You might even want to do up a 302 yourself.

A 302 can be small journal or large journal, chevy had both. The easy way is a 283 crank in a small journal block or in a large journal block with special bearings. The drawback is that all 283 cranks were cast I believe while a true 302 crank was forged, whether it was large or small journal.

quote Originally posted by TONY_C: A 302 can be small journal or large journal, chevy had both. The easy way is a 283 crank in a small journal block or in a large journal block with special bearings. The drawback is that all 283 cranks were cast I believe while a true 302 crank was forged, whether it was large or small journal.

many 283 cranks were forged but all were small journal ..the first 302 cranks in the z28 were small journal as well, basically the same as the 283. In 69 they went to medium journal ( large journal if you dont count the 400 crank) for the DZ 302 in the 69 Z28..too bad they didnt make more of those motors . I used to own a 69 Z28, even had the cross ram manifold for it and I regret everyday of my life for selling it.

[This message has been edited by Erik (edited 04-23-2005).]

The really hot setup before the 327 came along was a 283 bored to 301 with an Isky cam. They were also real screamers. I knew lots of guys with 301powered 55-57 chevys.

Hey Roger, you were around in the 60's

I personally liked of the 301's and I liked the 327's better.

I think you can get pretty much as much hp out of a 327 as you can a 350 for street purposes, but with some higher revs.

In my world, the 327 was the little brother to the 396. Those two motors pretty much dominated the street scene until the 427 took off.

If I had a choice, I would be tempted to do the 327 provided it was the right series, as in Corvette. better torque curve for a light car.

Arn

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: The really hot setup before the 327 came along was a 283 bored to 301 with an Isky cam. They were also real screamers. I knew lots of guys with 301powered 55-57 chevys.

I had a 69 Chevy 1/2 ton CK pickup with a 60 over 283 and a three in the tree..used to give so called muscle cars a run for their money, it would just windout forever

quote Originally posted by Erik: ...does anybody remember being around in the 60's?

Yep! ... unfortunately, some of 'em anyway ;^)
Norm

P.S. : like every third day maybe . . . .

[This message has been edited by gt88norm (edited 04-23-2005).]

quote Originally posted by TONY_C: A 302 can be small journal or large journal, chevy had both. The easy way is a 283 crank in a small journal block or in a large journal block with special bearings. The drawback is that all 283 cranks were cast I believe while a true 302 crank was forged, whether it was large or small journal.

People are overlooking a newer way to build a 302... any old large journal 350 block with 3" crank from '94,'95 4.3 L99 V8 (little brother to LT1).
Stuff that crank in a 400 block and bore it a little to have a REAL 327...

quote Originally posted by Will: People are overlooking a newer way to build a 302... any old large journal 350 block with 3" crank from '94,'95 4.3 L99 V8 (little brother to LT1). Stuff that crank in a 400 block and bore it a little to have a REAL 327...

now THERE'S a thought.......... wow; might get me interested in SBCs again..... does it come in aluminum?
LOL
but think about it......... a nice 6.25" rod (or even MORE????)
what a revving machine that would be with all the secrets they have uncovered now!

iv been thinking about one of these destroked engines for my next build. what are the engine combos out there? they sound fun, and would sound wicked.

I could be wrong (long time ago), but I think the only factory 375 HP 327 was with dual 4bbs . I dont think the fuelies made that much.