You might be right, but it's for the wrong reason. The shorter stroke is part of it, but NOT because of lower piston speed.
The 327 will have lower moment of inertia in the crank because of its shorter stroke. It will also have less torque because of its lesser displacement. The thing that determines whether or not it revs faster than the 350 is the ratio of torque to moment or inertia.
Now before someone calls BS because of vehicle weight or some other foolishness, it ought to be obvious that I'm talking about free revving...
Will, I didnt say that the shorter stroke crank revs faster or freer due to lower piston speeds, sorry for the misunderstanding I was just giving reason why F1 use shorter stroke engines and that long rod short stroke combinations will keep piston speeds down in a high rev situation. I did say that given the same paremeters other than the stroke, the shorter stroke will rev faster than the longer stroke due to less area to cover per revolution From personal experience with a 302 and a 350 in very similar setups I could tell the difference in windup speed in a no load or load situation
[This message has been edited by Erik (edited 04-25-2005).]
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08:04 PM
Erik Member
Posts: 5627 From: Des Moines, Iowa Registered: Jul 2002
327's are hard to come by. more torque isn't always a good thing. they are high revving little beast with the appropriate cam. alot of those hp numbers you have been quoted are from the gm and back then they had a tendency to underrate power back in the days. get u a 283 crank and go through a comp cams catalog and get u a a dual pattern 67 z28 profile cam and that biatch will scream. speaing of the z28 a 67 z was rated at 295 with a chevy 302 but it was more like 425+ at the flywheel. i think i seen a dyno sheet of about 400 and some change at the wheels.
if had 500 to burn id get one. a complete 327 for 500 is a steal.
well, now that i think about it perhaps a milder profile than the 67z b/c i think that motor had 4.88's for motivation. make u a 302 roller motor and u won't be dissappointed.
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08:57 PM
Will Member
Posts: 14280 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
Anyone who doesn't think a 350 will rev quickly, should take a ride in my car !!! The shorter stroke high rev low torque SBC's are real nice, but you must keep them in the limited power band segment of the engine. You have to really determine the type of driving you plan to do, select the proper cam, and gearing of both trans, and differential. For a street car, that's going to be very hard to do, like anything else it depends on what one expects out of his/her car.
Anyone who doesn't think a 350 will rev quickly, should take a ride in my car !!! The shorter stroke high rev low torque SBC's are real nice, but you must keep them in the limited power band segment of the engine. You have to really determine the type of driving you plan to do, select the proper cam, and gearing of both trans, and differential. For a street car, that's going to be very hard to do, like anything else it depends on what one expects out of his/her car.
Hey Kid doesnt everything have a limited powerband? OK besides yours Right when most longer stroke motors are running out of breath the 302 is just coming into its own powerband. Can I help it if I want a high reving disaster right behind me? Hell no!!
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12:37 AM
California Kid Member
Posts: 9541 From: Metro Detroit Area, Michigan Registered: Jul 2001
Understand where you're coming from, but my torque is high pretty much through the entire rpm range with shift points at 6,000 rpm, it will actually yeild a better 0 to 60 mph time with a second gear start. I know from experience it pulls hard all the way to 165 mph (where I've lifted out of it), the beauty of a high torque engine is that you don't get caught between gears out of the torque range.
Understand where you're coming from, but my torque is high pretty much through the entire rpm range with shift points at 6,000 rpm, it will actually yeild a better 0 to 60 mph time with a second gear start. I know from experience it pulls hard all the way to 165 mph (where I've lifted out of it), the beauty of a high torque engine is that you don't get caught between gears out of the torque range.
have u ever heard an 8000 rpm v 8? not to mention the kick in the pants when it comes on the cam. just b/c it has a higher powerband doesn't mean it has no torque after all it is still a v8. like some1 else said, it depends on the setup. all that torque doesn't do much good if u are spinning all the way up the track. torque breaks parts too. and id much rather have a 302 mated to a v 6 tranny than a 350.
but i am not always gung ho 302 if this were say an 86 ss monte carlo id say 350 all the way if not 454.
wait a minute!!! what am i doing? - **thinks to self**
no, i mean get the 350. definately the 350 and give me the info on the 327
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10:23 PM
California Kid Member
Posts: 9541 From: Metro Detroit Area, Michigan Registered: Jul 2001
have u ever heard an 8000 rpm v 8? not to mention the kick in the pants when it comes on the cam.
Have you ever heard one that will rev to 10,000 rpm, I was raised on that stuff ! Everyone will have an opinion, I'm not saying it's a bad choice, but it will have it's limitations on the street, especially if it isn't geared right.
Regarding spinning tires on the Fiero with a high torque engine, it happens so little, you'd be amazed. If someone's laying a lot of rubber down, they've made a very bad choice of tires/sizes. Sure you can break them loose, but it's more of a diliberate action.
Interestingstuff and a few memories stirred as well. For the younger folks that weren't around for the transition up from the 283 thru the 327/396/409 etc, here's a little reading for you. I thought the 396 was the cats meow back when, till my uncle rolled into our driveway with his 409 and 2- 4's on top of it. My dad has that engine still sitting on his work bench back at the old home place where I grew up and learned from the best-my father.
In 1965 a brand new engine was introduced to replace the the 409. It was the "mystery engine" introduced 2 years prior but scrapped at the last minute. The cubic inches were reduced from 427 to 396 to comply with the corporate wide limit of 400 cubic inches. This time the excitement surrounding this new generation big block motor was generated by releasing a very limited number of these engines in the Malibu Super Sports as a Z-16 option package.Only 201 of these highly optioned and very fast 375 horsepower 396 equiped cars were made. Chevrolet made sure that the right people snapped up these cars to spread the word. The Impala SS could be had easily with a 325 hp 395 or a 425 hp version.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 04-26-2005).]
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11:13 PM
Erik Member
Posts: 5627 From: Des Moines, Iowa Registered: Jul 2002
Interestingstuff and a few memories stirred as well. For the younger folks that weren't around for the transition up from the 283 thru the 327/396/409 etc, here's a little reading for you. I thought the 396 was the cats meow back when, till my uncle rolled into our driveway with his 409 and 2- 4's on top of it. My dad has that engine still sitting on his work bench back at the old home place where I grew up and learned from the best-my father.
The 409 came out before the 396 but I will say that both were torque beasts and very fun in a 6ixties musclecars. I had a RS/SS Camaro with the 396 and my friend had a 63 SS Impala with the 409. We used to go cruising and occasionally race each other it was close but my Camaro would beat his. I had the Muncie M22 rock crusher that I installedand a 4.11 posi. Of course his car weighed quite a bit more than mine and was stock with a Borg Warner Super T10 4 speed I think he had 3.73 gears but not sure. With very little tweaking the 409 Impalas could run 12s they were very fast. I ended up putting a 454 in my Camaro and it was amazingly quick but strange enough I got tired of it and sold it and started leaning toward high revving high HP motors in future cars I owned and built.The next car being a 69 Z28 DZ302..now I really never got tired of that car and I hate myself for selling it. It would be worth a mint today, I had the cross ram for it, it had the M22 rockcrusher, 4.11 and 4.88 gears depending on my mood and it had 4 wheel disc as well. Gas was about 45 cents I remember gas wars dropping the price to 24.9 for awhile ..
[This message has been edited by Erik (edited 04-26-2005).]
The shorter stroke high rev low torque SBC's are real nice, but you must keep them in the limited power band segment of the engine. You have to really determine the type of driving you plan to do, select the proper cam, and gearing of both trans, and differential. For a street car, that's going to be very hard to do, like anything else it depends on what one expects out of his/her car.
and it had 4 wheel disc as well. Gas was about 45 cents I remember gas wars dropping the price to 24.9 for awhile ..
