I was almost ready to get the car painted for the Daytona show when I was rear ended yesterday. Long story short, they want to total the car but I am trying to avoid that. They say there is damage to the frame rail...how hard will this be to repair?

Picture shows majority of damage was taken on passengers side, no damage forward of the trunk. Car remains mechanically sound. Can I get opinions on whether or not you think they will total this? I have yet to hear from them...those that I have spoken to (from the insurance company) have gone both ways....some say yes it will be totalled others say no. Of course I am hoping its not. I won't know till the adjuster is in on Monday.

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Even if it is totaled you can buy it back cheap and use the money you get to get the frame straightened.

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Bottle Fed 4.9 V8 5 Speed
I drive way too fast to worry about cholesterol.

The state has strict rules about cars that have been totaled (so I have been told). How hard would it be to insure should I buy it back? Could I even title it again as a drivable vehicle?

I can't give you advice on the rules of a totaled vehicle - but that can definitely be fixed without much time or trouble. I had a similar incident and repaired it all myself.

You'll need a new rear bumper bar (the metal that runs width-wise from one impact zone to the other), possibly new impact zone pieces (looking under the car they look like box sections of metal with ovals cut into the side). If the impact zones arent crumpled too bad then you can bend them out and possibly slap a piece of sheet metal on them and tac weld them to ensure proper support. If new ones are required due to the damage then you can get them from most any old fiero. I got mine from Ed Parks down at the Fiero Factory for a good price. Depending on the condition of the bumper cover (rear fascia) you will eaither need to repair or replace it. Same with the tail lights and license plate lights. Take a look at your exhaust too as mine was pinched closed due to the other cars bumper hitting the end of my pipe and bending it. If this happened to you you will need a new one, possibly a new cat if it got cracked or damaged as well. Look close at your trunklid and see if the locking mechanism was damaged. Of all the things that I've fixed on this one, that is one that has given me the most headaches. If the fiberglass on the trunklid is cracked where the trunk release or lock is mounted, it will give you alignment problems. Just need to repair that section, but I have yet to do that. The trunk is actually the easiest. Just use a hydraulic ram (small cheap one) to pop it back out, it holds it's shape real well as long as you never had rust down there, and I didn't. Once popped out use some rust preventative paint to protect in outside and inside and throw your carpet back in.

Overall it looks worse than it really is. The only thing I can't tell is if the frame end on the passenger side got jolted out of place during impact. My frame rails were perfect before and after, the impact zones took the damage. If your impact zone took all it could and the car kept coming, you may have bigger issues than I had to deal with, and I can't give you much advice at that point. Overall - this really isn't that bad, and is VERY fixable. Hang in there. You mentioned you were about to get it painted, hey, at least it happened before... LOL

Take care - good luck!

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Kris Bulla
kbulla@victorytechnologies.com

Well, I am supposed to be able to tow the car away from their shop tomorrow. I drove it in, but they took apart the rear to examine it and I can't drive it back without the lights in place and bumper attached...besides the tow is free so what the hell. I haven't really had a chance to get in there and get a good look myself. The guy who assessed the damage said the frame rail had some damage but that it was fixable but beyond the price that the car was valued at for the total repair of the vehicle. So they won't do it and opted to total the car. I haven't looked at it myself yet but I can't believe the car is toast. It is a good thing I did not get it painted sooner...I would have been pissed!

He very well could have been looking at the little crush zones I was speaking of. They are welded right to the end of the frame rail, so it literally looks like, and I guess could be considered, the same part. Trust me, my impact pics were a lot worse than yours and mine is as sweet as can be. If those impact things were damaged badly just cut them off, making sure you have a way to line up where the replacements would either bolt or weld on. I modified mine to unbolt in case anyone decided they liked the rear end again, but you can weld them just the same. Email Ed Parks at www.thefierofactory.com and he'll give you a good price and ship them if needed. I can't remember but $15 per side is what he charged or something..... Not bad at all. He also sent the bumper which was very economical too. He'll get you what you need.

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Kris Bulla
kbulla@victorytechnologies.com

I had a feeling that might be the case. I should have known...when I took it in his exact words were...

"I don't know anything about these cars, or even how to price them, so I'll probably just total it." My response, which I'm sure sealed the deal with his decision to total my ride was "Your ignorance of my vehicle should not determine whether or not it should be categorized a total loss." That pissed him right off which led to a nice exchange of words between us. What an idiot! Stupid people should not be allowed to reproduce!

If they total it out offer to buy it back for $50.Then you can possibley repair it, or swap parts to a new Fiero.

I plan on negotiating to keep the car. We'll have to see what happens.

Without seeing the rest of the car it is hard to say.
From the appearances in the photo you have minor sheetmetal damage to the trunk area and a collasped right rear frame rail to which the steel bumper attaches to which needs to be either repaired or replaced depending on how it looks from the rear and from the right side. Additional pictures would help showing the damaged areas to the rest of the vehicle.
Seeing that you are in Florida I'm going to guess that it is for the most part rust free.
If the rear cradle mounting point is undamaged it should be a quick fix. If possible get the car on an alignment rack and check the alignment, that will tell you a great deal on weather the frame has any substainsial damage. Measure the distance from the front center hub to rear center hub on both sides. If they are the same the car is repairable with the same cradle but if they are different the cradle was bent as well and would require time on a frame rack which can get expensive very fast.
Was the damage limited to the tail lights and rear bumper or was the rear clip damaged as well?

check with the dmv. if it's totaled as a nonsalvageble vehicle, it can't be registered in florida again. a totaled, salvageable vehicle can. don't ask me the difference, it makes no sense to me at all. best to check first though. at least you'll know you're future plans for it. ie..parting it out or rebuilding it. sorry to hear about the accident. i assume nobody was injured? that's the good part of an accident when nobody gets hurt.

The rear clip was spared. The damage was limited to below the tail lights, primarily the bumper on the passengers side. I guess that is why I am having a hard time with them telling me this car is totalled.

[This message has been edited by powrmajik (edited 02-11-2005).]

Sorry to hear this happened to ya. Those pics don't look TOO bad though, yer taill lights still look intact!
Hopefully, there isn't too much frame damage, and you will be able to swap out the damaged parts. That car doesn't look totalled...

just tell them NOT TO TOTAL THE CAR
it is your property not theirs
just get the ins Co to pay you an agreed price for the dammage done
and fix the car youself

there is no law saying they must total the car
or buy it from you, they can just give you a check for the agreed price
it is just the eazy way out for the ins Co
I have done this before and got 90% of what I paid for the car
PLUS I got to keep the car WITHOUT the title being totaled
or changed in any way

stick to you guns and donot take any chit , make them do it YOURWAY

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Question wonder and be wierd
are you kind?

Just words of encouragement.........can't speak to the legalities, but in mid '70's my roommate gently skidded on the ice into a guardrail in the Lake Tahoe area. The right front suspension, frame, fender and front corner was damaged, but the story was similar to yours. The car was sound. They were ready to total it because of 'engine damage'. The oil filter was punctured, and oil spewed everywhere! We rented a trailer and used my Power Wagon to haul it to San Francisco. He bought it back for almost nothing, and used the $3000 insurance money to have it rebuilt and repainted. That cost about as much as the insurance claim, but he never had second thoughts. It was worth it, because that car was not just transportation. He had taken a body shop class a few years before, and the Z-car was his project. He added a spoiler, stripes, spider web wheels, fat tires, etc. It was sexy, gorgeous, quick, and reliable as a rock.

That classy, much-loved 240Z cruised the California coast for another 20 years.

Interesting.....I don't remember ever driving it (although I rode in it plenty of times), and I don't think anyone else did, either. I hadn't thought about that before. I think Bob really loved that car, and wasn't willing to risk it in anyone else's hands.

Just to save hassles, try to come to an agreement on the price youll accept. It looks to me like a relatively minor hit and pretty easy to repair. Id probably drop in a new/used trunk compartment, new bumper reinforcement and cover. IF the frame itself is bent, unless its badly rusted, any frame shop will pull it back to specs for less than a few hundred dollars. Just dont try to ream the insurance company and be realistic about what would be acceptable. Insurance companies like to total a lower value car as a rule just to cover their own asses for future responsiblity. You could even offer the adjuster a signed release saying you wont try to recover more at a later time.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 02-12-2005).]

I appreciate everyones suggestions...keep them coming! There will be +'s for all! This will give me plenty to think about come Monday when I'll have to negotiate with the insurance company. Everyone here has given me hope that this will have a happy ending! My main goal today is to get it off their lot...if I can do that then I can get a good look at it myself and see just how bad (or not) it is. Of course no repairs will take place until an agreement is reached.

One other question for those of you out there....What about getting a second opinion? I was thinking about taking the car to a dealer and having them look at it...any thoughts?

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Sorry to hear about the Car.
I have a couple things being from Florida.
1) If they total it they will also let you buy it back for a very low price.
2) Then you end-up after fixing it with a Rebuilt Title and a sticker stating it was rebuilt.

This part is a hassle as we had to gather all our reciepts from the repair and go to the local DMV
and get a temporary tag to drive it to Ocala and get it inspected. Then you go back to the
DMV and they issue a "Rebuilt Title" This does effect the value of your car if you go to sell it. I
am not sure where you would go in Orlando for the inspection.

My suggestion as someone else said don't let them total it, see what they offer
you and if it is reasonable tell them you wil take that but not as a Total.
Also don't forget you can haggle with them and get it raised to your liking.
Good Luck as we know Insurance companys suck to deal with in these situations.
P.S. if you don't have the parts I know where you can get them to fix it real cheap and about
an hour from you. I also have a rear bumper.

As far as a 2nd opinion sure, but I would wait till after they make an offer, no sense in
getting ahead of the game, they are just looking at the fact for them to locate parts to repair
it and get it whole is going to be way to costly to them.
But if you want to get the frame checked I think it is like 50-100 to get it measured,
atleast that's what it is here.

[This message has been edited by carolinajoe (edited 02-12-2005).]

Carolinajoe......PM sent.

From looking at the additional pics it appears tha the point of impact was 6 to 8 inches to the right (passenger side) of the lisc. plate opening. Is that about right?
If so your damage is basicly minor sheet metal work in the trunk area and very little damage to the frame horn. The might be some minor damage to it that can be pulled out easily. The parts required to repair has already been outlined for you to include a rear bumper skin, impact material, and a new steel bumper. Of course some easy sheetmetal work, I would use what is there and not cut anything except the existing metal bumper to pull the horn out with.
I would not total the car, but an insurance company or body shop might due to the estimated cost of NOS parts.
We all know that those parts can be found cheap either on this Forum or on e-bay. So far as that goes if you can't find the parts I'm sure that I have them here but I'm in Indiana. Fieros used to be plentiful in Florida so anything from an 85 GT to 86 & 87 SE will work as well as a trashed pace car rear bumper and support.
I would think a good body man could have the sheet metal work done in less than 12 hours and have the new parts hung and aligned in 3 hours or less. Ready for paint.

Insurance sucks. I have paid enough insurance to buy a new car and still fix my Fiero. The guy that hit me was driving a new SUV 2005. They are going to try and give me book value and take the car. I told them no and he left and told me someone would be in touch with me.
Book was $1400 to $1800 but try and find one in the shape our cars are in for that.
I dont know about you but I didnt put all that work into the front end of my car to let them crush it.
Good luck I feel your pain.
On a side note I have beat out the trunk in one of my other cars and you could not tell once the carpet was put back in.

[This message has been edited by Jake_Dragon (edited 02-12-2005).]

Well, I had no luck today. It was arranged lastnight that I was to go and pick up the car today and bring it home to await "judgement" by the insurance company. When I arrived on site this morning to get the car they had already moved it to another location. Talk about pissing a guy right off! Anyway, who knows whats going to happen. Kento went with me to try and take a look but of course with no car that made it a little difficult. They are pretty much already talking a total loss so it looks like my best bet here is going to be to try and at least keep the car for parts. Does anyone know of any Fieros in Florida that are for sale? Shoot me a PM if you know of any....don't bother with the ones on Ebay...I already have those flagged.

Thanks All...

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First they have no right to do anything until you settle. If they tow it off, its up to them to get it back to you untouched or you can sue them. If they towed it somewhere without your permission, technically, theyve stolen it. If they already scrap it before you know it, sue the hell out of them

You can report it to your insurance agent, claim it yourself on your policy and have your insurance adjuster appraise the damage. If they say its fixable, they will pay on your policy , less your deductible and then THEY sue the other guys insurance to recover what they paid out. They also will get your deductible amount back and give it back to you.

I didn't think about it that way. Thats a good option...go through MY insurance company. They are supposed to contact me tomorrow so I will give them the benefit right now and try to keep a level head about this. But if I get pushed to far I think I may just go that route! With everyone's suggestions I am starting to feel much better about my options here.

I'll keep you guys posted with what happens in the morning...If all goes well I'll have the car back by noon.

These people in Orlando should be able to make your rear fascia like new and ready for paint. It's what they do. http://www.keystone-auto.com/locations/search.asp

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Notchbacks RULE

Fierobruiser for President 2008
" No Fiero left behind"

As an absolute last resort, if they really get "assy" about it, I suppose you could inform them that your back has begun to hurt you from the impact since it was so severe that it totaled your car. Like I said........only as a last resort........it just might get their attention. There is no way I would let them total it if it was mine. Seriously though, I do wish you good luck. Too bad you don't have an attorney friend that could help you out. Insurance companies are for the birds sometimes.

Getting read to fire up the Angle grinder. Should I ask earl for his Saw-all??? Guess, Im glad we did not haul that car away yet.

Kick them in the stones and run. I have more damage than that but it didnt move the frame at all.
Its all trunk that took the damage.
Im going to cut it out and put in "new" sheet metal from another car.
See having 2 or 3 cars pays off.
We could go in half on the parts car and save money

quote Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: Kick them in the stones and run. I have more damage than that but it didnt move the frame at all. Its all trunk that took the damage. Im going to cut it out and put in "new" sheet metal from another car. See having 2 or 3 cars pays off. We could go in half on the parts car and save money

I have all the parts he needs in the back yard. wil be nice to get some use out of an Item I thought was going straight to the junk yard for scrape.

quote Originally posted by Kento: I have all the parts he needs in the back yard. wil be nice to get some use out of an Item I thought was going straight to the junk yard for scrape.

You giving him a quote for the insurance? Give me one too
Kento's garage, drag it in and drive it out.
If things work out I will get Harry's car and pull the parts I need off of it.
If they dont work out its going to get the parts off my 84 parts car.
What every it takes. Its kind of far for me but if you need help some saturday and can give me some notice I can help.

quote Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: You giving him a quote for the insurance? Give me one too Kento's garage, drag it in and drive it out. If things work out I will get Harry's car and pull the parts I need off of it. If they dont work out its going to get the parts off my 84 parts car. What every it takes. Its kind of far for me but if you need help some saturday and can give me some notice I can help.

You funny!!!! Which car of harry's are you looking at?

Here they are...The DAMAGE pics, taken today after they finally delivered it back to me...all was accounted for! Whew! Safe and Sound! Believe it or not it ended up at AN AUTO AUCTION!!! Damn those people! When I found that out I thought for sure it was gone!

Here's the damaged passengers side...behind the rear wheel...any thoughts guys?

This is the drivers side...not even a scratch! This is how the other side should look.

Comments appreciated.

quote Originally posted by Kento: You funny!!!! Which car of harry's are you looking at?

The gold t-top.
But they way it sound I will probably be putting the crappy parts I have here on it just to may it legal till I can do it right.

Like I posted at the start, minor horn damage.
I would cut the bumper in half, secure the front of the car to an imoveable object use a comealong, secured to another object of the same properties of the first and pull it out.
Repair the trunk an install the new parts.

I agree. I had a chance to go out this evening before dark and have a look for myself. Its pretty ugly right now but nothing a solid weekend worth of work can't fix right up. Now the battle is moving to the damages they caused to the front end of the car and the interior pieces that were "borrowed" while it sat in the storage yard...not too much missing, but just enough to piss me off!

quote Originally posted by Indiana_resto_guy: Like I posted at the start, minor horn damage. I would cut the bumper in half, secure the front of the car to an imoveable object use a comealong, secured to another object of the same properties of the first and pull it out. Repair the trunk an install the new parts.

Got a small tree (36" Dia) in the back yard that will work just great for that. it just happens to be about 10 feet from the parts car that will get disected if needed!

Yup, now all I have to do is get it together enough to get the couple of miles to your place!