Well last week I wentand picked up the donor car, but teh project was on hold untill 2 days ago. My friends and i were able to strip the parts car's interior and what was left of the exterior in salvageable condition. My goal with all of those parts, plus what is left from the engine bay is to get a free engine swap out of this. Hopefully it will be possible.
Today I go to pick up the engine hoist and remove the engine fromt he engine bay. The only thing that I'm a little nervous about is the A/C stuff.
There are a few questions that I have aobut the engine swap that I thought I cleared up but now I'm not sure:
1. Can I use the stock thorottle lines off of a V-6 fiero? 2. What is wrong with using flexible fuel lines? 3. What have you all been using for coolent tubes?
In the pictures, you may see some excessive damage, but the car was in a rollover before, so dont think that we trashed a good car Besides you need to take out frustration somewhere! Well, without further ado, here are some pictures of what we have done so far:
So after I hit this one kid, it did all of this damage, I SWEAR!
After the body was removed.
So thats about it for now, I'll update tonight once the engine is out hopefully!
-Jeff
------------------ REMEMBER: If you cant win the race you loose the argument!!
Im interested, Id definitly like to see a detailed writeup. I wish I had my engine. I pulled mine almost two months ago, and it had a bad crank. My new"est" engine has been sitting in its totaled body for the last two months, waiting on the paperwork to get cleared up . I enjoyed reading DarthFiero's build up, you should check it out. Id like to read yours too, as I cannot do mine myself yet, at least can get more ideas.
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07:33 PM
ltlfrari Member
Posts: 5356 From: Wake Forest,NC,USA Registered: Jan 2002
Well, if you 'ain't seen it already info on my swap is on my site, link in sig below. I made up my own throttle cable, dunno if the V6 would work, my car was duke and the cable would not have been long enough. By flex steel line do you mean braided lines. I used those and they are fine but it gets expensive with the AN fittings. for coolant tubes I used one of those flexible stainless hoses for the feed (driver side), got it off ebay. For the pump return hose (pass side) I found one of my orig fiero hoses was close enough with some trimming although I don't know which hose it actually was since it was just lying around the garage.
Way to go Jeff! I was just about to write you another PM to see how it was going and here was this thread. Glad everything's starting to go forward. I'm definitely interested in watching this as it goes along.
------------------ Activities Director N.I.F.E. www.fierofocus.com
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10:24 PM
Jun 18th, 2004
fieromadman Member
Posts: 2217 From: Oconomowoc WI, USA Registered: Jan 2003
jim123185: I'll be using the stock getrag 282 with new output bearings and axel stabilizers.
86GT3.4DOHC:
I will definatly be doing a detailed write-up on this conversion. Right now I was just working on getting the engine out of the car. Soon I'll be able to do some more of the swap orientated parts of the conversion. I have looked over Darths several times, its very well done but hes doing more custom work than I can handle, especially with the mounts. Good luck witht your donor car, mine pulled through for me, I hope yours does too!
ltlfrari:
I've seen your webpage but its too darn long to read through in one sitting, if i have questions about the swap I'll usually refrence either your website, darths thread or www.dohcfiero.com . Thanks for the info on the parts. I'm gonna try to make the stock v-6 thorottle lines work.
Dave:
Yeah, she's slowly but surely comming along. I just have to wait for that credit card application to go through before I can start ordering. (for those of you who dont know, im 17 years old, so if you see some youngsters working on the car dont be suprised.)
Well now into some of the more important parts of my swap. The donor car is a 95 Monte Carlo Z34 that was in a roll-over at 30 MPH. The engine has 86000 miles on it. The timing belt, alternator, and main front seal was replaced less than 1000 miles from when this happened. I picked up the car for $600, way cheaper than all of that work put into the motor. It appears to have some sort of an oil leak, hopefully just out of the gromet where the distributor would be. Otherwise she fires right up and runs fine.
We will be bolting this engine onto the stock 84-87 cradle on my blue GT. New poly motor mounts, cradle mounts and suspension mounts in the rear will be used. The front has allready been re-built. We'll be using a spec stage II clutch to hold the power. I didnt want to go with a stronger one because this is my daily driver during the summer and I want to keep the abuse on the transmission down.
The decklid mount will have to get hacked off and I plan on running a rodney dickman strut to hold it up. The dogbone will be bolted to the engine lift braket on the stock side. A/C will not be hooked up for now. The power steering pump will be gutted and filled half way up with fluid to aviod having to make an idler setup. There will be no cruise control for now but I will keep the parts around if i decide to tinker with it. Intake will be done via modified short ram.
I'll be mounting the ECM in the stock location, with some modification to the bracket im guessing, but I like the cleanness of the install like that better. Battery will be moved up front. Wiring will be done using a west coast fiero wiring diagram. The ECM that I'm using is for a 93 3.4 TDC manual, it will hook right up.
Exhaust Is gonna be loud, but its gonna run out the backside of the car, splitting into a Y right away. One cat on each side with a resonator tip.
Well I'm about spent for now, pictures will come tomorrow or the next day. We were able to remove everything for the engine including the engine without cutting many lines at all in less than a full days work. For a bunch of inexperianced teenagers thats not too bad, eh? What else isnt too bad is the fact that if I can sell all of the parts off of that car it will pay for the swap its-self!
Updated pictures to come.. -jeff
------------------ REMEMBER: If you cant win the race you loose the argument!!
As of right now the motor is sitting out of the car and i have the wiring diagram ready to go with the two harnesses. Hopefully by mid next week the harnesses will be ready to go. Time to get ordering parts! Here is a parts list that I have compiled with a link to some of the parts:
The next thing to acomplish is the wiring like i said, order parts, and to get the parts car outta here so i have room to tear down the Fiero. My other computer broke with that had the digi cam so i cant get pictures right now but it should be back from the shop next monday.
Anyone know how to retard the exhaust cams 13 degrees? (I've heard up to a 25 horsepower gain).
------------------ REMEMBER: If you cant win the race you loose the argument!!
to do the cam timing is pretty easy if you know how to do the stock timing, go to http//www.60degreev6.com
in a 91 lumina z34 i think it makes 237 hp at 6000 rpm 7000rpm redline(stock is 210 hp @5200rpm with a 7000 redline) you loose a bit of initial torque but you gain so much hp
now in a fiero you should make at least 230 stock without power steering and haveing a shorter exhaust so with cam timing 250-260 hp isnt faretched
just think youll have about the same hp as a mustang GT with 2 less cylinders 1.2 less liters and about 800 lbs less of a car and the mustang gt puls about a 14.3-14.5 in the 1/4 mile
a mustang eater!!!
horse anyone i hear its good
as far as my swap im gonna post pics soon i just have to find me a computer (im on webtv.) i have the getrag and im installing it on a 87 gt i haged the whole engine every gassket seal and bearing made an idler from the power steering box did the cam timing and im sending off my harness on monday in the meantime im gonna do my exhaust!
[This message has been edited by Exotic Rida (edited 06-20-2004).]
Whew! I just spent 1024 dollars total ordering parts for the car. I still have the exhaust stuff to order and the fuel lines and the coolent lines if i need to do it. I also have to find someone that will retard my exhaust cams 13 degrees . Hopefully by the end of next week it will be in. I have started on the wiring but I'm not very far yet. More to come on that. I still dont have any picture updates because of my computer, but that should be done tomorrow. Show you then!
The power steering pump will be gutted and filled half way up with fluid to aviod having to make an idler setup. -jeff
That is the same way I did the pump on my wifes car. I pulled the back cover and removed the vanes, plugged the lower hole for the return, and will fill it through the pressure port. It was quick as there was no bracket/idler to fabricate, and when it needs a belt, I just have to get a stock belt for a 92 Lumina.
I have 2 evenings (about 6 hours) in the wiring harness and probably 2 more evenings to get it finished and mounted. I still have to change the pump and reroute the fuel lines. I hope to start it this weekend (minus the exhaust).
Gene
------------------ 87 Notchie 4.9 87 SE 3.4TDC swap in progress 87 Notchie Pontiac 428 longitudinal coming soon
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11:33 PM
Exotic Rida Member
Posts: 563 From: new orleans louisiana, now displaced to atlanta Registered: Jan 2004
I keep hearing all this talk about the wiring harness and am starting to wonder if I'm way off base?!? When I pulled the motor and harness, it appears that the only connections needed are through the C100 (of the DOHC harness). Basically, the starting, fuel pump, neutral (or clutch) safety switch circuits. The remaing stuff like Fiero speedo and A/C will need to be addressed but are not critical to make the motor actually run. Am I way off-base with these assumptions? Are you guys making different harnesses? I'm confused . Are you guys just rewiring the C100 connector or doing something radically different?
Roy
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11:00 AM
86GT3.4DOHC Member
Posts: 10007 From: Marion Ohio Registered: Apr 2004
I used an old Fiero harness, and spliced the harness from the lumina body into it. Now its kinda a big "Y", with the Fiero firewall and right side connector (I forget the numbers) and the lumina C100 end on the other side. So hypatheticaly, it'll be plug and play.... once I get my engine still waiting on that.... its been almost two months now, and he still doesnt have the title.. but thats another story.
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11:58 AM
fieromadman Member
Posts: 2217 From: Oconomowoc WI, USA Registered: Jan 2003
go to www.dohcfiero.com for the wiring directions. basically its one plug from the donor car and 2 plugs from the fiero that need to be changed.
I forgot to mention that in a few seconds I'll be leaving trying to find out the best exhaust set-up and whats possible. I'll be running it off the stock 3.4 y pipe and all but after the downpipe connection it will have a Y in it and go to two small cats and then further to two resonator tips. Short, sweet, and high flowing!
The fiero gets torn apart tomorow, i will start posting pictures of that soon!
[This message has been edited by fieromadman (edited 06-22-2004).]
I still havent gotten around to tearing into the Fiero. Not really a problem though. I have been busy getting the motor off the cradle and fine tuning all of the details. I've decided on what to run for an intake. Im just running a K&N filter right off the stock flexible rubber tubing. It will need to have a curved cover over the filter to avoid water soaking the filter but otherwise it should be good enough for now. Eventually I'll run a tube to the side of the car giving it some cool air.
After talking to the guy at my local bumper to bumper auto parts store I've decided on what to run for fuel lines. I should be able to bend some line myself to go from where the hardpipe goes to the drivers side strut. Before my parts car is gone tomorrow it is important that I find what lines do what for the cooling system. I've been having one #3!! of a time figuring out what does what.
The wiring has been labled and I started but un-certainty made me un-do everything I did. If i can I would like to get forum member joshua riedl over to help, theres cash in the offer!! Hopefully that will be done in about 2 days.
My forecast for exhaust changed, I'll be using the stock setup for now, just having the shop bend me a temperary pipe that goes stright from teh header to the muffler. Later I will do my two cat setup with resonator tips. Can't seem to find two cats small enough for my liking.
I'm a little stressed as I wanted this whole project done by the end of this week but it looks like it could easily drag into next week as well. Parts should be here by tuesday or wednesday. I've gotten everything except for my parts form west coast fiero. I screwed up in ordering a tranny seal because I only ordered one of them. Brain fart, what can i say?
A/C will be left un-hooked for now, same with cruise controll, but I would like to get both working.
Thats about all she wrote for tonight, once again, I'll get pics before the car is gone and besides, the fiero related part hasnt really started yet!
------------------ REMEMBER: If you cant win the race you loose the argument!!
Let me know how that exaust works, that what im plannning on doing, temp anyway. And pooooorrrr baby, it might take you a week longer than you thought..... I was planning on being done with mine 2 months ago... Im still waiting on the engine title crap sigh.... Looks like fun though. Keep us informed
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02:24 AM
PFF
System Bot
86GT3.4DOHC Member
Posts: 10007 From: Marion Ohio Registered: Apr 2004
I've seen your webpage but its too darn long to read through in one sitting
Fear not, once the beast is running and back on the road I will be doing a 'short' version that covers the detail of the actual swap and leaves all my thoughts/rant out !!
Hello, well I had a good chuckle, good luck on your "plug and play harness" weve done three here and there all different depending on the year engine and chassis used. Have patience my good friends. thanks Norm
Projects always take longer then you expect but keep the faith Jeff and you'll get it done. Good luck, i can't wait to see it on the road. It definitely needs to come to Fierorama here in Illinois btw.
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11:25 AM
86GT3.4DOHC Member
Posts: 10007 From: Marion Ohio Registered: Apr 2004
Hello, well I had a good chuckle, good luck on your "plug and play harness" weve done three here and there all different depending on the year engine and chassis used. Have patience my good friends. thanks Norm
lol, yea I know it will require more work, but hopefuly in the end it will be PNP for my car. I hope in the future to have an extra cradle, 4.10 tranny and 350 for hot swapping. I'll hopefuly out fit it in the same way, so that I can swap em in a couple of hours. Then stroke the 350 to a 383, and build it up. drag car on the weekends, sports car during the week. This is just an idea right now, im still working out the logistics of it. That and I dont know if I could bring myself to actualy pull put the 383 lol.
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12:52 PM
Jul 16th, 2004
fieromadman Member
Posts: 2217 From: Oconomowoc WI, USA Registered: Jan 2003
Mine should have been running today but for some reason the starter wont crank the motor, now i've heard of a thing such as shimming problems, but i decided to bolt up a old 2.8 starter that I had just to see if one of the loose cracked plastic around one of ther starter studs is to blame. The gearing seems the same, so its probably just shimming. I also think that my fuel pump isnt starting up, which would be a shame because I have all of the wiring in a loom right now. Im starting to wonder if it will be done by this weekend!! err!! this was supposed to be done like 2 weeks ago.
Anyhow, after all of that i just have to get the dogbone and exhaust and alignment. I think Im gonna end up dropping the cradle AGAIN after if filled it with coolent and attached all the lines and everything, just because with my new motor mount the engine moved over too far and im gonna try and correct it, I might be able to do it in the car though, we'll see. Another thing is that my O2 sensor is right up against a piece of metal on the trunk wall and I need to cut the metal. Also a little part of the loom should be re-routed because its right were my dogbone should be going, but I didnt cut away enough metal on the strut tower to get it to fit very well. We'll see how that goes...
Other than that she's golden, I just want it to fire up right now.
See ya! Jeff
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02:14 AM
ltlfrari Member
Posts: 5356 From: Wake Forest,NC,USA Registered: Jan 2002
Just a thought but can you turn the engine over by hand using a socket on the pulley nut. I had the same problem, would not crank, and it turned out that the clutch cover was hitting the inside of the bell housing, but I was using WCF 9 11.16 clutch. Some pics of where it was hitting on my web site.
Good to see some one else jump in and tackle a 3.4 dohc swap. It sure helps the rest of us to share info like this so our swaps go smoothly. From the increased interest I'm seeing on the DOHC engine on this site it almost looks like it is over taking all others.
I have a new 96 crate engine sitting in my garage waiting to slip into my 86 1/2 GT 5 speed Getrag but need some help on the intake and most externals if anyone here has a spare 3.4 that is trashed but good for parts close to Indiana I'd be more than happy to provide you with more garage space.
Keep us posted on your progress.
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09:24 AM
Jul 22nd, 2004
fieromadman Member
Posts: 2217 From: Oconomowoc WI, USA Registered: Jan 2003
grrr.. well im taking this exert from an email i sent out tonight, this should give you a clue as to what is happening now. I hope to add to this thread in depth later with pictures that i havent developed yet. ----EMAIL----
Hello
I have some problems with my 3.4 DOHC and i dont realy know where else to turn for expertise advise. I swapped the motor from a 1995 monte carlo Z34 into my 87 fiero gt. The engine is in no problems and the wiring is hooked up and tested for the most part, but im pretty confident that it works because the engine will start and even the idle will level off but then the engine shuts its self down. It runs for about 2 seconds before it gets shut off. Now, this car was equipped with the anti-theft. So i made a circuit to bypass it from www.fieroaddiction.com and installed it using both of the different resistances given to see if it was the passkey1 or passkey2 system. I still dont know which one it is but i do know that it wont make the car start either way. So my next question is if there is a way to bypass the system by enabling what ever it disables (I think fuel pump). Another question is if there is any other reason why my car would shut its self off? Im hoping that tomorrow i will be able to use a silliscope to see if my board is putting out the right hertz or not. If it doesnt that might be the problem but if it does im up **** creek without a paddle. So about the long e-mail but that is my problem and im clueless and lacking professional help.
Thanks for any help! Jeff ----/EMAIL----
So basically after replacing my starter and swapping tot he monte carlo battery this beast will start up on its own power. Right now however the joy is short lasting. My car shuts its self off one banana two banana seconds later. When its on it seems to be running right, no service engine soon light appearing, but that might just be because it hasnt ran long enough to generate a code? Has anybody else used that fieroaddiction.com schematic to make an antitheft bypass circuit? Has anyone tried to bypass it before? How about does anybody have a gun to put me out of my missery? No GM dealer in town will touch the ECM and i dont know of any shops around here that do custom tuning. I just want the anti-theft gone!!! Burn in #e!! anti-theft!
Anyhow, hopefully while im trying to get ahold of a silliscope i can make a dogbone mount like darth fieros so that i can have itmechanicaly 100%. The decklid is back on, supported by a rodney dickman decklid strut and it works wonderfully. Basically i need exhaust and dogbone and no antitheft right now.
I'll keep you updated as to what happens with my auto shut down situation.
I've got one other question right now, I dont really have any vaccume lines hooked up and no fuel vapor canister because i dont believe in needing one but all of the holes are plugged. i know the seloniods work because the engine ran fine when it was hooked up in the monte. Is plugging those lines going to make may car stall out like it is? I hope not...
------------------ REMEMBER: If you cant win the race you loose the argument!!
after some heated research i found out that it is most likely the passkey doing it after all. The fuel pump isnt what passkey shuts off, instead passkey shuts off the injectors. Looks like my cicuit board needs a meeting with a sillascope (wow i cant spell that). Hopefully we can get it tuned in.
Jeff
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02:30 AM
KurtAKX Member
Posts: 4008 From: West Bloomfield, MI Registered: Feb 2002
A. Bejcek had the same problem with that Pass-key replacement circuit in his 3100/pass-key 1 swap. Put the original pass-key box in (held wires onto key resistor tabs) car started right up. Go figure.
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02:44 PM
fieromadman Member
Posts: 2217 From: Oconomowoc WI, USA Registered: Jan 2003
yeah i dont have the original passkey box, so i ordered a bypass modual off of ebay to cure my problems, hopefully it will be here by this weekend/early next week
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03:14 PM
Jul 23rd, 2004
ltlfrari Member
Posts: 5356 From: Wake Forest,NC,USA Registered: Jan 2002
My engine came with the later ecm, so i used the later one. Its hell trying to find a chip for these, i have a few people that i have contacted about burning me one but no answeres back yet. I might switch to the 9396, we'll see. Right now i ordered the modual to bypass it, hopefully that works as well as i think it should. At least the car will be driveable then. We'll work on drivability and getting me an exhaust next week.
Later! Jeff
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12:59 AM
Jul 25th, 2004
fieromadman Member
Posts: 2217 From: Oconomowoc WI, USA Registered: Jan 2003
So after the show in Iowa, where I learned a new saying, Dave Gunsul convinced me to update this thread so that he could ogle over it but here are alot of the pictures that i took of the swap:
So kinda leaving off from the pictures that i allready posted, here is us empting the gas tank of the Monte Carlo right before it went off to get crushed.
Here is the Monte Carlo stripped of all good parts and beat to crap out of anger and fun on its way to the crusher.
My helper Chris sitting in the trunk b*tching about how we have to be careful taking the engine out of this one and it wont be any fun lol, however we got it out without cutting anything and being careful in about 4 hours.
The old 2.8 getting dropped out of the bottom along with all of the cradle.
The 2.8 is sitting on the floor here and im taking a break.
to be continued....
------------------ REMEMBER: If you cant win the race you loose the argument!! 3.4 DOHC Motor Swap-14.7 in the 1/4 mile with no hook-up, crumby exhaust and automatic chip. Better exhaust, chip, cam retarding, and driver to come... I'm feeling lucky! www.geocities.com/j_depies
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03:03 PM
fieromadman Member
Posts: 2217 From: Oconomowoc WI, USA Registered: Jan 2003
Here i am stripping the engine bay of everything we dont need and prepping all of the lines in order for the 3.4 DOHC to go in. Note: I am sitting on a chair in the engine bay lol.
Here is the engine in still not with the correct mounts i dont believe but it is getting wired up in this picture. I would like to thank Josh for all of his time on this aspect of the swap.
Here is the engine in there to stay. The battery box isnt in place so i still have the ecm on top of the battery. There isnt a dogbone installed yet and you can see our custom computer board made that was supposed to bypass VATS but didnt.
Here is the wiring done for the most part and the engine ready to go. The only things not done in this picture is the exhaust air cleaner cover, dogbone, VATS relay not installed yet, idler pulley, and (still not done) the rear spark plug cover.
Besides you need to take out frustration somewhere!
. I enjoyed reading DarthFiero's build up, you should check it out. Id like to read yours too, as I cannot do mine myself yet, at least can get more ideas. 
. Are you guys just rewiring the C100 connector or doing something radically different?
