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Dexcool antifreeze... by AutumnsOATH
Started on: 01-02-2005 01:14 PM
Replies: 51
Last post by: red85gt on 01-06-2005 09:57 PM
FrugalFiero
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Report this Post01-05-2005 01:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FrugalFieroDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Pyrthian:

boy...y'all are making me want to actually find the truth about this stuff. for the most part - the "if it works..." is what I'm sticking with. tried & true ethyl glycol. is the sludge some kind of self sealing system gone wrong? or just the nature of the stuff? then theres the "where theres smoke...". I know people are dumb, and cars end up in shops for the stupidest reasons. but, heaters cores are hard to phuck up. its not like you can use your heater wrong. yes, low on coolant is a "neglect" issue, but jeez - used to be able to have an empty overflow bottle. also, now applying to the Fiero. I have yet to have a year go by, that for some reason or another, my entire coolant system contents end up running down my driveway. hopefully this year will be different, but somehow, I doubt it. so, coolant that lasts forever is no big sell to me.

This website has a pretty good writeup about all the different coolants...it is in PDF format.

http://www.macsw.org/pdf/200410MS.pdf

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Formula88
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Report this Post01-05-2005 02:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by RickN:

My Mechanic says that it is good stuff if you just treat it like normal anti-freeze and replace it on a two the three year cycle whether it's been mixed or not. He went on to say that the biggest problem is that the idea that it is Extended Life has made people think that they can just forget about it for life.

Then what's the point? I don't expect it to last forever, but if it's 5 year / 150,000 mile coolant, I expect it to last for 5 years or 150,000 miles. So far, I've never gotten more than 2 years or 40k miles before it started turning to mud. My green antifreeze in my Fiero has lasted longer. So, in other words, there's no reason for Dex-cool to exist.

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rogergarrison
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Report this Post01-05-2005 03:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post
I was just thinking before i read the last post.........I should make a blue dye and put it in antifreeze, get a tv commercial made saying its vastly superior to all others. Id make millions.........Im wondering if someone somewhere down the line put Dexcool in my vette. Ive always had a layer of brown goo in the radiator and overflow tank. Maybe I should flush it out and refill with what I know is the good ole green. Im one of those people who never change antifreeze untill something else needs repaired like a water pump, radiator, hose, etc. I go with the idea of if it aint broke, dont fix it. (also know as fix it till its broke)
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Skybax
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Report this Post01-05-2005 03:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SkybaxSend a Private Message to SkybaxDirect Link to This Post
Hmmmm.... better re-post this info, lots of carzy people out there.

Mixing traditional green with dex-cool will not sluge a system. That is a myth just like the popular Fiero myths.

Mixing them is not recommended because it defeats the purpose of having dex-cool in the first place. Traditional green is only good for 2 years. You need to change your coolant every 2 years. Dex-cool is good for 5 years. When you add green to your dex-cool it is not longer good for 5 years. It also goes without saying it's common sense not to mix them.

Dex-Cool and traditional green antifreeze are both Ethylene Glycol based.

Conventional coolants (the green stuff) which use silicates, phosphates, borates, nitrates, and amine additives to eliminate corrosion. These additives are abrasive to water pump seals, and silicates are especially unstable and drop out of solution and form a gel after time. All of these conventional inhibitors deplete after a short time, which is why conventional coolant must be changed 2 years.

The unique corrosion inhibitor technology in Dex-Cool is based on the use of two organic acids, which are synergistic and combine to form carboxylates. Texaco refers to this as Organic Acid Technology (OAT), or Carboxylate Technology. The corrosion inhibitors used in Dex-Cool deplete very slowly thus eliminating the need for traditional additives, or frequent change intervals.

The only reason you hear "not recommend using Dex-Cool in older vehicles" is because the additives in Dex-Cool can eat away at copper/brass radiators and high lead solder seams. That does not apply to Fieros.

Rules of use...

1. Keep the cooling system filled. In fact, fill the reservoir bottle to “Hot” level when the system is cold. Problems arise when a system’s coolant level is not maintained. (Fleet vehicles receiving regular maintenance, and with reservoirs kept slightly above normal, do not show signs of contamination. This even applies to the specific “problem” vehicles.)
2. The coolant problems found in this survey were caused by system contamination, and not due to the breakdown of DEX-COOL.

3. Check and keep the pressure cap clean and functioning. A contaminated and/or malfunctioning cap causes low coolant levels, which in turn causes overheating and a greater loss of coolant: the notorious vicious cycle. No matter what the vehicle, if the cooling system acts suspiciously, test the pressure cap.

4. On the ST vehicle models mentioned in the GM DEX-COOL video, you “must” replace all suspect radiator caps, especially those with a Drop-Center design, with a Stant Model 10230 or 11230 (Spring-Center type). (Just do it.)

5. Make sure that the coolant is at a 50-50 mix. Often, the flush water was not being removed from the engine block. Consequently, when a 50-50 mix is added to the system the resultant mixture could approach 30-70. Like any fluid that has been diluted beyond its recommended levels, the lowered level of inhibitors will not be able to protect the coolant system effectively. Low levels of inhibitors can cause pitting on aluminum surfaces and general corrosion of cooling system metals.

6. A safe method of achieving a true 50-50 mix is to first determine the actual capacity of the system (use the owner’s manual). Then add 50% of “that” amount of undiluted DEX-COOL (or any coolant), and top it off with water.

7. Mixing a “green” coolant with DEX-COOL reduces the batch’s change interval to 2 years or 30,000 miles, but will otherwise cause no damage to the engine. In order to change back to DEX-COOL however, the cooling system must first be thoroughly drained and flushed.

8. Bacteria cannot live in a hot, Ethylene Glycol environment and is therefore not a threat to DEX-COOL.

9. While there have been intake gasket failures on CK Series, V8 powered vehicles for various reasons, DEX-COOL has never been found as a cause.

10. Use a refractometer to check the condition of DEX-COOL. Its inhibitor package is strong enough that if the batch still provides proper freeze protection, it is probably still providing proper corrosion protection as well.

11. DEX-COOL can handle the minerals in hard water better than silicated conventional chemistry coolants. Drinkable water is suitable for top off.

12. In ST Blazer applications where the radiator cap is mounted at an angle to the ground, the vehicle is more susceptible to radiator cap contamination and its related problems. The Stant 10230 is a wise choice for these vehicles.

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ricreatr
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Report this Post01-05-2005 05:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ricreatrSend a Private Message to ricreatrDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Skybax:

12. In ST Blazer applications where the radiator cap is mounted at an angle to the ground, the vehicle is more susceptible to radiator cap contamination and its related problems.

i have replace a lot of caps on dex vehicles, never on greens. the brown crud gets under the vapor seal and the resevour overflows.

 
quote
Originally posted by Skybax:

12. The Stant 10230 is a wise choice for these vehicles.

i have also replaced a lot of stant caps. junk (imo) i go with oem. cheap and best ive seen. alway in stock at the dealer.

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tesmith66
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Report this Post01-06-2005 06:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tesmith66Send a Private Message to tesmith66Direct Link to This Post
The sludge forms when air gets into the system. Air will ALWAYS find its way into the system. Never happens with green - ever. Dexcool is a bad product. It has cost many people (including me) time and money that could have been avoided. It is not worth the risk.

BTW, green will last waaaaay longer than 2 years. INMHO, Dexcool was one of those GM things to get you to spend more money with them and/or their affiliates (which puts more money in GM's pockets).

I have been wrenching for over 20 years, and have never seen a cooling system problem caused by anti-freeze until Dexcool came along. It is nasty stuff and I will never use it again. Besides, green is cheaper.

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Kohburn
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Report this Post01-06-2005 07:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KohburnSend a Private Message to KohburnDirect Link to This Post
so for dexcool you have to make sure you don't have anything in the system that could contaminate it and overfill the resevuar...

so basicly its hypersensative to every day crap but can last for years in a controlled test environment.. sounds like a product I want to drive every day .. right..

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Report this Post01-06-2005 01:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Direct Link to This Post
So, I want to flush the Dex-mud out of my Grand Am. Anyone have any suggestions on the best method? I've use the Prestone flush & fill kit on my Fiero before and was considering that, but wanted to know if people had better options or suggestions.
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rogergarrison
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Report this Post01-06-2005 02:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post
to flush one out good, go to a reputable garage and let them do it. Home power flushes are not worth the effort if your going to change type of antifreeze.I never changed my green antifreeze in my MercedesSL in the 10 years I owned it and never had a single cooling system problem. Not radiator, water pump, heater ect, and I put 250,000 miles on it.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 01-06-2005).]

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Paul Prince
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Report this Post01-06-2005 02:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Paul PrinceSend a Private Message to Paul PrinceDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:

So, I want to flush the Dex-mud out of my Grand Am. Anyone have any suggestions on the best method? I've use the Prestone flush & fill kit on my Fiero before and was considering that, but wanted to know if people had better options or suggestions.


Talk to Pontiac customer service at Pontiac.com. Tell them the story, you are a loyal Pontiac Customer etc. etc. Maybe they will take care of it for you. I had a 99 Grand AM and had a lot of problems with the CD player (replaced 3 times) and the coil packs and wires (replaced once in 40K miles).

They fixed it free and sent me a $1,000 check toward the purchase of a new Pontiac. I did buy a Vibe and used the check to pay for taxes and title.

Hey, it can't hurt.............Paul

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Formula88
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Report this Post01-06-2005 04:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Paul Prince:

Talk to Pontiac customer service at Pontiac.com. Tell them the story, you are a loyal Pontiac Customer etc. etc. Maybe they will take care of it for you. I had a 99 Grand AM and had a lot of problems with the CD player (replaced 3 times) and the coil packs and wires (replaced once in 40K miles).

They fixed it free and sent me a $1,000 check toward the purchase of a new Pontiac. I did buy a Vibe and used the check to pay for taxes and title.

Hey, it can't hurt.............Paul

I'll give it a shot, but the dealers around here aren't very good. The Leith Pontiac dealer is pretty good, but I've only been there once, so it's not like I have a rapport with them.

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Report this Post01-06-2005 09:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for red85gtClick Here to visit red85gt's HomePageSend a Private Message to red85gtDirect Link to This Post
I work for chrysler. I havent seen any problems with there long life antifreez. I plan on putting the Mopar stuff in my car and I know a few outher mechanics have to with no trouble. Chrysler has had no problems with there heater cores or any outher coolant issues related to the long life antifreez I know of. Havent seen any tsb's yet.

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[This message has been edited by red85gt (edited 01-06-2005).]

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