With as hard as it is to get air out of a Fiero, I'd say NO. Air and Dexcool = Sludge. Dexcool also breaks down nylon66 when combined with heat, this is an issue if your running an engine swap like a L36 3800 series 2 engine.
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01:21 PM
$Rich$ Member
Posts: 14575 From: Sioux Falls SD Registered: Dec 2002
GM Finally Ditched dex, they now have a replacment that is a replacment for ALL Antifreeze, its green and works good
I had heard that, but when I still worked at a Chevrolet dealership (left in September) the new cars were still coming with Dexcool! Dexcool is crap. Just about every Blazer/S-10 out there with Dexcool in its cooling system would have a plugged heater core every year. If it were me I would just use the green coolant. It works just as well.
DO NOT MIX Dexcool with green antifreeze or you WILL have a plugged system. Dexcool is a fine product until it's mixed with other antifreeze. even draining the system and refilling with dex will plug it up because you can't get ALL the old antifreeze out. I have a 2000 Blazer with dex and it's been totally trouble free at ~80ooo miles. If GM has switched it's no doubt due to the end users lack of knowledge about not mixing it.
DO NOT MIX Dexcool with green antifreeze or you WILL have a plugged system.
Neither statement is true
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05:11 PM
Russ544 Member
Posts: 2136 From: S.W. Oregon Registered: Jun 2003
So you dissagree with GM then? ............. <shrug> ok.
GM’s Jay Dankovich and Equilon Enterprises’ (Texaco) Stede Granger directed a 2-year study of thousands of DEX-COOL cooled vehicles. Armed with the results, they really didn’t have anything bad to say about the coolant. In fact, they strongly defended the product’s reputation. What they revealed to the audience is that specific models of GM vehicles have specific cooling system contamination problems. And essentially, that DEX-COOL is not the culprit.
1. Keep the cooling system filled. In fact, fill the reservoir bottle to “Hot” level when the system is cold. Problems arise when a system’s coolant level is not maintained. (Fleet vehicles receiving regular maintenance, and with reservoirs kept slightly above normal, do not show signs of contamination. This even applies to the specific “problem” vehicles.)
2. The coolant problems found in this survey were caused by system contamination, and not due to the breakdown of DEX-COOL.
3. Check and keep the pressure cap clean and functioning. A contaminated and/or malfunctioning cap causes low coolant levels, which in turn causes overheating and a greater loss of coolant: the notorious vicious cycle. No matter what the vehicle, if the cooling system acts suspiciously, test the pressure cap.
4. On the ST vehicle models mentioned in the GM DEX-COOL video, you “must” replace all suspect radiator caps, especially those with a Drop-Center design, with a Stant Model 10230 or 11230 (Spring-Center type). (Just do it.)
5. Make sure that the coolant is at a 50-50 mix. Often, the flush water was not being removed from the engine block. Consequently, when a 50-50 mix is added to the system the resultant mixture could approach 30-70. Like any fluid that has been diluted beyond its recommended levels, the lowered level of inhibitors will not be able to protect the coolant system effectively. Low levels of inhibitors can cause pitting on aluminum surfaces and general corrosion of cooling system metals.
6. A safe method of achieving a true 50-50 mix is to first determine the actual capacity of the system (use the owner’s manual). Then add 50% of “that” amount of undiluted DEX-COOL (or any coolant), and top it off with water.
7. Mixing a “green” coolant with DEX-COOL reduces the batch’s change interval to 2 years or 30,000 miles, but will otherwise cause no damage to the engine. In order to change back to DEX-COOL however, the cooling system must first be thoroughly drained and flushed.
8. Bacteria cannot live in a hot, Ethylene Glycol environment and is therefore not a threat to DEX-COOL.
9. While there have been intake gasket failures on CK Series, V8 powered vehicles for various reasons, DEX-COOL has never been found as a cause.
10. Use a refractometer to check the condition of DEX-COOL. Its inhibitor package is strong enough that if the batch still provides proper freeze protection, it is probably still providing proper corrosion protection as well.
11. DEX-COOL can handle the minerals in hard water better than silicated conventional chemistry coolants. Drinkable water is suitable for top off.
12. In ST Blazer applications where the radiator cap is mounted at an angle to the ground, the vehicle is more susceptible to radiator cap contamination and its related problems. The Stant 10230 is a wise choice for these vehicles.
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Profile? In 20 years... Auto Detailing, Auto Body, Classic & Antique Restorations, Mechanic, Engine Performance Specialist, Porsche-Jaguar Tech, Wholesaler, Sales, Independent Full Service Repair Shop, Vehicle Vinyl Graphic Design and hard-core auto / aviation enthusiast... now searching for a new career. What a ride!
[This message has been edited by Skybax (edited 01-02-2005).]
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05:55 PM
FieroGT87 Member
Posts: 3195 From: St. Louis, Mo, USA Registered: Jul 2001
My 2000 Yukon XL has 95,000 miles on it with Dexcool, and I have never had any problems. It was my understanding this anti-freeze was good for 100,000 miles.
i have dex-cool in my 98 cherokee and have had no problems . i also had it in my 87 gt fiero , when my throttle stuck and my car jumped a curb at over 60 kph and almost hit a fence i took out the heater core line under my car . dexcool got my car home .so now i am not sure to replace the coolant now with more dex-cool or conventional coolant
------------------ modding one day at a time .critique me dont critisize . try to be objective dont troll
Dexcool is covered in my cave a little bit. It is/was made by ChevronTexaco for GM like many other GM factory fluids. The Dexcool brand has also been licensed to a couple other coolant makers in the last few years.
The large post above looks like someone cut and pasted most of the article from imcool.com about Dexcool what goes into greater detail.
While Dexcool is not a bad product, I would not recomend putting into any older vehicles that came with traditional antifreeze. This is mainly because it is nearly imposible to get an old system clean. Even shop/chemical often flushing leaves trash in the system that could mess with OAT coolants like Dexcool. GM also voids the extended life rules for filling older cars. They have sent documents to the dealer network to this effect stating that Dexcool can be filled but reverts to the old 2-3 year change interval.
There are some new products available in the aftermarket that are suposed to be longer life and work in any system. I have no information on any of these products.
------------------ The only thing George Orwell got wrong was the year...
I have to totally agree with Skybax here. I have talked to Texace engineers over this. Per their recomandations, I "top off" all systems with dexcool, never green coolant. It is TOTALLY mixable with green. The reason GM says not to do it is because it is considered only as good as the weakest link, the green, when mixed. So don't mix it if you want the long term durability of Dexcool, do mix it if you want it to have the short term durability of green coolant. When I flush I always use dexcool.
The large post above looks like someone cut and pasted
That somebody would be me. Most people generally look at the user ID to see who posted a message. Yes it is a copy & paste of very popular, useful, and important information on dex-cool found at multiple sites.
Exactly Electrathon...
Mixing traditional green with dex-cool will not sluge a system. That is a myth just like the popular Fiero myths.
Mixing them is not recommended because it defeats the purpose of having dex-cool in the first place. Traditional green is only good for 2 years. You need to change your coolant every 2 years. Dex-cool is good for 5 years. When you add green to your dex-cool it is not longer good for 5 years. It also goes without saying it's common sense not to mix them.
Dex-Cool and traditional green antifreeze are both Ethylene Glycol based.
Conventional coolants (the green stuff) which use silicates, phosphates, borates, nitrates, and amine additives to eliminate corrosion. These additives are abrasive to water pump seals, and silicates are especially unstable and drop out of solution and form a gel after time. All of these conventional inhibitors deplete after a short time, which is why conventional coolant must be changed 2 years.
The unique corrosion inhibitor technology in Dex-Cool is based on the use of two organic acids, which are synergistic and combine to form carboxylates. Texaco refers to this as Organic Acid Technology (OAT), or Carboxylate Technology. The corrosion inhibitors used in Dex-Cool deplete very slowly thus eliminating the need for traditional additives, or frequent change intervals.
The only reason you hear "not recommend using Dex-Cool in older vehicles" is because the additives in Dex-Cool can eat away at copper/brass radiators and high lead solder seams. That does not apply to Fieros.
Anyone is welcome to come inspect the cooling system in my Fiero. The first 9 years used old-green changed every 2 years, the second 9 years used dex-cool changed every 4-5 years. My dex-cool is 5 years old and due to be changed this spring. I'll bet you never seen a 18 year old cooling system look so good..... not to mention I am still using my original water pump, heater core and radiator.
How many people on the Forum you think keep green stuff in their Fiero longer than 2 years? Probablly 90%...
How many times have you heard the words "heater core leaking" on this forum? Too many...
To answer the original question by AutumnsOATH, there is nothing wrong with dex-cool being in the Fiero you are interested in buying. Just be sure to inspect the cooling system to make sure it was maintained properly. What type of Ethylene Glycol antifreeze is in there is irrevelant.
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Profile? In 20 years... Auto Detailing, Auto Body, Classic & Antique Restorations, Mechanic, Engine Performance Specialist, Porsche-Jaguar Tech, Wholesaler, Sales, Independent Full Service Repair Shop, Vehicle Vinyl Graphic Design and hard-core auto / aviation enthusiast... now searching for a new career. What a ride!
[This message has been edited by Skybax (edited 01-02-2005).]
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08:18 PM
Shadow_Wolf Member
Posts: 759 From: Sherwood Park, Alberta, Canada Registered: May 2003
If you mix the two it often LOOKS contaminated because the resulting color mix is usually brown, but have never heard from anyone in the industry that dexcool is an inferior product.
I'm not going to come up with any fancy Quotes from big names but, I subscrib to every Auto tech magizine and they all say If you mix dex and the green it will turn into a sandy substance and sit at the bottom of the block.
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08:41 PM
solotwo Member
Posts: 5375 From: Grand Rapids, MI. USA Registered: Jun 2002
New GM products are still being shipped with DexCool. The 2005 owners manuals still say 5 years or 150,000 miles. I have not been advised other wise and tell all my customers to keep the Dex in .
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09:02 PM
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
All the parts stores here are carrying a 'new' yellow antifreeze that mixes with both. Autozone didnt have any green original type or Dexcool the other day I needed a gallon. They had 1/2 dozen different brands and all said mixes with all kinds of antifreeze. just my 2-cents.
So we have a in-depth study by the makers of the stuff and co-sponsored by the car maker that uses it and they say it's the best thing since sliced bread??
Guess I'll take that for what it's worth. Remember when Philip Morris said their study showed nicotine wasn't addictive or harmful? When Firestone said there wasn't anything wrong with thier tires? When the AEC said nuclear testing in Nevada was perfectly safe? When White Star Lines said the Titanic was unsinkable? (ok-that one was a little before my time)
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10:43 PM
Russ544 Member
Posts: 2136 From: S.W. Oregon Registered: Jun 2003
So we have a in-depth study by the makers of the stuff and co-sponsored by the car maker that uses it and they say it's the best thing since sliced bread??
Guess I'll take that for what it's worth. Remember when Philip Morris said their study showed nicotine wasn't addictive or harmful? When Firestone said there wasn't anything wrong with thier tires? When the AEC said nuclear testing in Nevada was perfectly safe? When White Star Lines said the Titanic was unsinkable? (ok-that one was a little before my time)
Darn. you beat me to the punch . I was ready to spew a quotable quip about inquiring to Richard Nixon if republicans are honest. So do I believe a mechanic who sees Dex in the real world, or a biased engineer who does "studies"? I believe the mechanic........................ cause I are one . No flame. just my opinion.
So do I believe a mechanic who sees Dex in the real world, or a biased engineer who does "studies"?
I don't know... you tell me.
quote
Anyone is welcome to come inspect the cooling system in my Fiero. The first 9 years used old-green changed every 2 years, the second 9 years used dex-cool changed every 4-5 years. My dex-cool is 5 years old and due to be changed this spring. I'll bet you never seen a 18 year old cooling system look so good..... not to mention I am still using my original water pump, heater core and radiator.
Mechanic, Engine Performance Specialist, Porsche-Jaguar Tech, Independent Full Service Repair Shop
What you see in the real world is only half of the equation, you also need the scientific explanation behind the problem and how it developed to answer the questions why you see it = automotive forensics.
Two toothless "mechanics" in the middle of nowhere starring at a flat Goodyear tire scratching their head won't solve why it's flat, and certainly doesn't prove all Goodyear tires are defective.
Trying to explain why there is nothing wrong with dex-cool is like trying to tell people the Fiero is a good car. They will never buy it. They don't want to hear it. They are set in their mind it is a cheap plastic fire bomb death trap with a highly flammable magnesium engine.
[This message has been edited by Skybax (edited 01-03-2005).]
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02:06 AM
Freshj Member
Posts: 1250 From: Holly, Michigan Registered: Nov 2001
Originally posted by Skybax:How many times have you heard the words "heater core leaking" on this forum? Too many...
I've used Dexcool for the last two years. I have had no problems with it. The only thing is, I'm on my 3rd heatercore since the switchover... I used a Dexcool Engine, new radiator, and a new heater core, with all existing lines flushed, so the only coolant in my system is Dexcool... I've had a radiator hose blow off twice in those 2 years, so the coolant in there is less then a year old at any given time. Go figure... At leas the heatercore is cheap and easy to replace on Fieros eh?
My 1999 Grand Am came with Dex-crap from GM, and it's had nothing but Dex-crap in it. It's supposed to be 5 year / 150,000 mile coolant. My car had it flushed and changed at 2 years 40k miles and it looked like mud. Now at 5 years 90k miles, it's mud again. Would you like to see the muddy sludge appearance of 2 year old Dex-crap with about 50k miles on it? Long life coolant my butt.
I'm flushing that crap out and going with the hybrid stuff that's supposed to work with green or Dex. After a couple of flushes of that stuff, I'll eventually migrate over to the green antifreeze completely.
Did I mention my heater core is plugged up? My car's heater doesn't work with the engine idleing. I have to rev it to 2500-3500 rpm to get enough water flow through the heater core to get any heat. (with a fully warmed up engine).
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01:12 PM
Rickady88GT Member
Posts: 10649 From: Central CA Registered: Dec 2002
I have an 85 gt that has had DEX-COOL in it since February 2000 and have encountered no adverse affects in the past five years. Next month I will be replacing it with DEX-COOL good for another five years. The Fiero anti-freeze fill and flush procedure is difficult enough without having to repeat it every two years. If there is a life time antifreeze product out there how long will your hoses last?
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02:17 PM
Russ544 Member
Posts: 2136 From: S.W. Oregon Registered: Jun 2003
Trying to explain why there is nothing wrong with dex-cool is like trying to tell people the Fiero is a good car.
But the thing is, I do think that Dex is a good product (I use it in my Blazer, as mentioned in an earlier post) unless mixed with green stuf, or used in an improperly maintained vehicle . Dex "problems" do seem to be like the Fiero "problems" which are generally shown to be a loose nut behind the wheel.
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08:51 PM
Mike Murphy Member
Posts: 2251 From: Greencastle, Indiana 46135 Registered: Oct 2001
My 98 Bravada had it in there and at 76,000 miles my heat went away due to a plugged heater core last spring. Was it overdue timewise? Yes by about a year. Have I ever had a plugged heater core before in the many vehicles I've owned? No. Do I change my antifreeze on the recommended intervals? Eighty percent of the time. My local independent shop has seen nothing but plugged heater cores and freeze plugs eaten up in a bunch of GM cars with Dex. Did I go back to the green stuff that I have to change more often? You betcha! I was a solid supporter of GM products in the 70's and 80's working in my family's Pontiac Olds GMC dealership and later for Pontiac Division but I remember the 350 gas converted diesel, premature cam shafts wearing on 305 V8's, Dropping springs on 69 olds, and the fiero recall as well. Do I beleive what they tell us as much as I used to? You figure that one out.....it's a no brainer. Does GM build a good product? For the money I'd say no better or worse than any other. Gotta give em credit for the 8 Fieros, 1 Olds Bravada, 91 Transport, 94 Grand Prix and 01 Bonneville that are in the family. Just not always do they do the right thing and admit they can be wrong until it's too late.
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09:33 PM
Jan 4th, 2005
tesmith66 Member
Posts: 7355 From: Jerseyville, IL Registered: Sep 2001
I think it sucks. I got it out of my 99 Silverado and replaced it with good old green stuff. The overflow bottle has about 2" of gray-brown sludge in the bottom of it, and some more came out of the radiator when I drained it. If it's soooo good, then why does it do that, and why do so many people have problems with it? Why does it eat intake gaskets and destroy radiator hoses? Why did it plug the inlet to my heater core? Why is GM replacing it?
I just got a 97 Grand Prix and you can bet that I'll be replacing the deathcool in it as soon as possible. I'm not taking any chances. I can't afford to.
was just talking to the shop owner I trust in the area about it yesterday and he was saying he's had the dexcool engines come in with it clogged up or leaking due to gaskets getting eaten up by it..
My son purchased a 96 S10 with a 4.3 last year. It had a sticker on it indicating the cooling system was flushed and filled professionally the year before, and it had the correct rad cap on it. I took that cap off for a looksee, and all I saw was brown goo. Needless to say out went the dexcool and after a flush, in went the green stuff. It has been fine since.
I also have a 87 Astro with the 4.3. I bought it new, and after 17 years and well over 100K miles it still has the original antifreeze in it. I check it every year and it is still green, and still protects to -40 degrees. It also has the original water pump.
I know the antifreeze manufacturers, and most auto related people will tell you to replace the green stuff every few years since they claim the anti corrosive properties weaken over time. It sounds reasonable to me but then, if I manufactured antifreeze, or owned an auto service establishment, I would be inclined to recommend that it be replaced also.
GM will never admit there is a problem with dexcool, because they would go broke fixing all the issues related to it.
------------------ Tim Red 88 Formula Auto 2.8 100K+ Miles
Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence!
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09:26 AM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Originally posted by FrugalFiero: I also have a 87 Astro with the 4.3. I bought it new, and after 17 years and well over 100K miles it still has the original antifreeze in it. I check it every year and it is still green, and still protects to -40 degrees. It also has the original water pump.
I know the antifreeze manufacturers, and most auto related people will tell you to replace the green stuff every few years since they claim the anti corrosive properties weaken over time. It sounds reasonable to me but then, if I manufactured antifreeze, or owned an auto service establishment, I would be inclined to recommend that it be replaced also.
I would still recommend replacing it for the corrosion prevention. Cheap insurance.
I also have a 87 Astro with the 4.3. I bought it new, and after 17 years and well over 100K miles it still has the original antifreeze in it. I check it every year and it is still green, and still protects to -40 degrees. It also has the original water pump.
Guess we know why you chose your username.
Sounds like my dad. He told me yesterday he was thinking about changing the spark plugs in his 1992 Ford truck. It still has the oem plugs in it.
lots of cars show terrible sluge build up with a SLOW dex leak the sluge will NOT, NEVER come completely out. acid flush gets lots out though dex costs more for no? reason never seen problem mixing no amount of flushing will remove the silicate from the system, eliminating the advantage of dex (per gm) if it is so great then why are there a dozen cars in the shop with no heat/plugged cores? your gm warranty will NOT cover coolant issues past 36,000 miles no matter what coolant is/has been in it. some gaurantee eh?
toothless buick pontiac gmc tech.
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11:21 AM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
boy...y'all are making me want to actually find the truth about this stuff. for the most part - the "if it works..." is what I'm sticking with. tried & true ethyl glycol. is the sludge some kind of self sealing system gone wrong? or just the nature of the stuff? then theres the "where theres smoke...". I know people are dumb, and cars end up in shops for the stupidest reasons. but, heaters cores are hard to phuck up. its not like you can use your heater wrong. yes, low on coolant is a "neglect" issue, but jeez - used to be able to have an empty overflow bottle. also, now applying to the Fiero. I have yet to have a year go by, that for some reason or another, my entire coolant system contents end up running down my driveway. hopefully this year will be different, but somehow, I doubt it. so, coolant that lasts forever is no big sell to me.
My Mechanic says that it is good stuff if you just treat it like normal anti-freeze and replace it on a two the three year cycle whether it's been mixed or not. He went on to say that the biggest problem is that the idea that it is Extended Life has made people think that they can just forget about it for life.
------------------ RickN White 88GT 5spd White 85GT Auto
[This message has been edited by RickN (edited 01-05-2005).]
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12:17 PM
Paul Prince Member
Posts: 2935 From: Kansas City, MO Registered: Dec 2002
I thought all the manufacturers used Dexcool? My Vibe (Toyota) has it. Anybody know?................Paul
Edited for speeling.
I pulled this tidbit from www.motor.com articles regarding the Vibe...
Pontiac Vibe. The Pontiac Vibe is a funky-looking "tall box" car made in a GM plant here in the States, but like the Toyota Matrix introduced late last year, it's built on the Corolla platform. The 130-hp, 1.8L engine is pure Corolla, and the 180-hp 1.8 is straight out of the Celica with its six-speed manual. GM's input was the styling direction, which many rate above the Matrix
So when you lift the hood to do any work, think Toyota. That means the antifreeze/coolant is Toyota red, and although it's a nonsilicate antifreeze/ coolant, it's nothing like orange DexCool. The coolant change interval is 2 years/30,000 miles whether you follow GM's recommendations for non-Dexcool coolants or the Toyota listings. Toyota red may be hard to come by, so your logical move is to drain and fill the entire system, then install a name-brand conventional American silicated antifreeze.
------------------ Tim Red 88 Formula Auto 2.8 100K+ Miles
Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence!
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12:37 PM
Paul Prince Member
Posts: 2935 From: Kansas City, MO Registered: Dec 2002
I pulled this tidbit from www.motor.com articles regarding the Vibe...
Pontiac Vibe. The Pontiac Vibe is a funky-looking "tall box" car made in a GM plant here in the States, but like the Toyota Matrix introduced late last year, it's built on the Corolla platform. The 130-hp, 1.8L engine is pure Corolla, and the 180-hp 1.8 is straight out of the Celica with its six-speed manual. GM's input was the styling direction, which many rate above the Matrix
So when you lift the hood to do any work, think Toyota. That means the antifreeze/coolant is Toyota red, and although it's a nonsilicate antifreeze/ coolant, it's nothing like orange DexCool. The coolant change interval is 2 years/30,000 miles whether you follow GM's recommendations for non-Dexcool coolants or the Toyota listings. Toyota red may be hard to come by, so your logical move is to drain and fill the entire system, then install a name-brand conventional American silicated antifreeze.
I'll be darned. Maybe Toyota just added food coloring to Dexcool ..............Paul
. I was ready to spew a quotable quip about inquiring to Richard Nixon if republicans are honest. 
