Hey guys......

I have a sinking feeling that my 1987 Fiero GT (auto) has just died (terminal)!

I was driving down rt.283 heading towards Lancaster (just before the Landisvillle exit) when all of a sudden my car died!

I stopped in Mount Joy at Sheetz and filled up, got on 283 heading home when about 2 mins after getting on 283 I nailed the throttle to pass a slower moving car the car hestitated bogged out and stalled. While coasting it fired up again on its own. After it fired up it had a loud exhuast tone (not sure what this is all about) and would not go over 60mph so I slowed down to about 50mph trying to limp it off the highway and about a minute later while slowing down to pulll off to the side of the highway it stalled. I brought it to a stop hit the key and it cranked over about 3 times real slooow (didn't fire) and then didn't turn over again. I noticed while trying to start it that the temp needle was almost pegged (hot side). I noticed that when it started running bad that I had good oil pressure (above 40psi) and volt meter looked fine....never even thought to look at the temp guage until after it stallled so It may of been running hot and I didn't notice it!

I removed the oil cap white smoke bellowed out for about 3 seconds (don't know if this is normal). Thinking I toasted the motor I walked to a turkey hill to call my brother to come get me (out of all the times I don't have my cell on me). My brother shows up about 1 hour later and we take the short drive to my car and try to crank it (just to see what happens) and all it did was make a real loud CLICK when the key was hit. I tried it 3 time and it and got 3 LOUD clicks. The 4th time it cranks again but super slow about 4 cranks and then nothing. We checked the oil....looked o.k (no contamination), the antifreeze looked ok as well (alittle low but not bad....just below where the thermostat sits). Also the drive belt is stil intacted and al pulleys rotated when slowly cranking
I didn't notice any smoke before the car died nor did I hear any loud knocking....not unless it was muffled by the loud exhuast tone. We looked under the car for any fluids (none were present). I also looked over the exhuast system from underneth and I didn't see any black carbon buildup from an exhuast leak!

Car info....1987 Fiero GT (150,000 miles) auto trans. Stock except an MSD ignition (6A). It has run pretty good since I owned it (about 4 years). Most of the miles are highway (50mile round trip to work everyday). It was burning some oil. About 1 quart between oil changes (every 4-5 months). The car did suffer from hot low oil pressure when idling (about 10-20 psi but about 40-50psi under normal driving ). The car would sometimes run alittle hot on warm days sitting in traffic (manual fan switch was installed for ease of mind).

So do you guys have any thoughts on this (I am assuming the motor is finished.....just don't know what the culprit is). Also for any local guys...... Anyone know of a cheap tow service. This thing is gonna be costly to get towed home (40miles round trip).....and i'm not sure who I want to call to get it towed anyone suggest a cheap tow service???

Thanks for reading this and any input!!!!!!!

Having witnessed a similar set of circumstances in my brother's Chevrolet Spectrum (Isuzu I-Mark), I'd have to guess that the engine is seized. In my brother's car, it was because it lost oil pressure briefly.. just long enough for the bearings to seize up.

Back when I had my old v6 my car did that. Ended up being the ignition module. When the ignition module goes bad the engine either dies or starts running really odd. I would change that out if I were you. It's located under the distributor cap.

It also sounds like you have a dead battery.

The slow cranking and hot guage reading make me think the motor siezed with heat. Was the radiator hot when this happened? It could be that the coolant mix was incorrect and it froze. If that happened and you drove it until it seized then there's a chance the rings and/or exhaust valves are damaged. Let the engine cool off completely and use a fresh battery to see if it will crank. Pull all the plugs and check for coolant in the cylinder. If a head cracked when it overheated it could have filled a cylinder with coolant, and when you tried to start it again it hydraulic locked the engine.

JazzMan

On Some cars the temp. needle peggs when the key is on run, KOEO, or key on engine off.goes to the engine temp. while cranking. It could be bad gas, ( don't think so), or the alternator, battery went south. Mike

Thanks for the replies!
First...The control module crossed my mind briefly....but it wouldn't explain the change is exhaust tone. It went from running good til I hit the gas to pass someone when alll of a sudden it cut off....it fired backup again on its own while coasting thats when it started running loud...then driving for another minute and dying! Now if before dying the exhaust note wouldn't have changed I would be thinking the same thing! I have a few extra modules lying around. I may try to install one of them...I may also try and disconnect my MSD and run it stock!

Coolant.....
The coolant has been in the car for sometime...and didn't freeze yet (about 1 year). A few days ago it was about 20 degrees colder and it was fine. Also I forgot to mention in my writeup that prior to coming home I was driving the car for about 40 minutes (I drove to mount joy....stopped at work and left 10minutes later to head towards home) . So I would think if the coolant would be froze that I wouldn't have gotten as far as I did! Sorry I forgot to mention that!

I wil try to put another battery in it and crank it over. Also If the engine seizes would you get good oil pressure prior the the seize. I would've thought that I would've had signs of something going wrong. Any idea's what made the car exhaust sound get louder?
If it still cranks slow with a new battery what will that tell me (SEIZED?????)!

It was so strange running great, nail gas,bogs-out and shuts off, fires up while coasting, sounds like exhaust leak and running poorly, and 1 minute later it dies?

Also like to mention that the car has a new exhaust system (no cat). I installed it about 1 month ago (clamped in, not welded)!

Lastly.....
If the block cracked I should've seen antifreeze in the oil....correct??????

[This message has been edited by camon (edited 12-26-2004).]

I had an iron duke in my Mariah boat awhile back. It was brand new & had about 12 hours on it. Was coming to dock & noticed a change in the exhaust, just when I docked the engine quit. It was under warranty & when they came to check they found sand & water in the cyllinders, was a cracked block. On my '87 coupe I have the exact opposite, I have motor oil in the coolant but no coolant in the oil, engine runs real good & so far problem not found, they are guessing head gasket but from what I am told it would be the opposite. Also check engine light & had replaced what the codes found, map, tps & 02 but still the light is on. Any ideas on my problem????

The engine in my race boat died without warning. Battery seemed dead after, wouldnt crank, just clicked. I valve keeper popped off, droping a valve. Piston broke off the head of the valve and cocked it sideways on top of it. bent rod, busted piston, busted head. I just put in a new motor. When we took it out and pulled the head, the valve was driven right into the water jacket. I was just cruising along, no noises, running perfectly and it just stopped like i turned off the key.

I wouldn't junk the engine just yet.
No coolant in the oil? Good. No oil in the coolant? Good.
Not a clogged cat, no cat.
Module/pickup coil should be checked/replaced, then check the coil, also. Most auto parts stores will do this for free, or you can swap with one that you know is good. These tests are not always accurate!
Finally, if these don't fix it, do a compression check.
OK?
Fuel pressurecheck out OK- unlikely, but worth checking before junking the motor.
Overheating is not a good sign, but these are tough engines and will survive some abuse.....

NEPTUNE.....Thanks for the hopeful comments!

I'm sitting here racking my brain!

In an attempt to rule somethings out I have a few questions???

1.If the alternator goes out what symtoms will arise....will the car just up and quit after the battery is drained or will it mess with the ECM and the data it sends causing the cars performance to change)?

2.Could the weird exhaust note the car developed after it stallled out and refired be caused by missing cylinders (if the alt. will infact mess with the ECM could it start missing)? Maybe the exhaust note I heard from the car was the car missing.

The only shread of hope I have here is that the car wasn't knocking or anything when this all happened. There also was nothing in the fluids and no puddles under the car or in the exhaust tips (just carbon build-up)!

I was just talking with my brother (not sure how accurate he is here) But he said that if the engine seizes the car will not crank over (you hit the key nothing will happen). Well when I hit the key after this happened and though it just clicked at first..after afew tries it did crank over all be it in slooooow motion (real slow cranks). like the battery would've been drained!

Just trying to get some info on how a car will react under certain conditions!

Thanks agin for the info and help....guys!

I think the alt is a very good possibility. I had a car... not a Fiero, but it was one with the 3.1 V-6 60 degree engine with the same ECM as the Fiero that the alt died on, and it just plain ole quit once the battery drained enough. No codes, or other faults... the fact that it turns over slow would rule out the module for me, and make me lean more towards a bad battery, alt, or siezed engine.

Good luck

BTW, did you try the advice on putting a fresh battery in it yet?

Ok, here's some more info on seizing scenarios. The pistons are sized such that as they expand with engine heat they don't become larger than the cylinder bore and stick. However, pistons always expand with more heat and at some point they will expand so much from so much heat that they will actually seize in the bore. That temperature is in the 300's for many engines. If you seriously overheated the engine the pistons would stick and cause slow or no cranking until the engine cooled all the way off.

The description of symptoms that you gave indicates an overheat problem. If you want to give us different symptoms then we can give you a different diagnosis.

JazzMan

No.....the car is about 20 miles away along a major highway (I won't sleep well tonight). I will more then likely call a tow truck first thing in the morning and get it towed home (I think that is what spites me the most....the tow truck bill...that will be expensive i'm sure). Once I get it home I will start to look into the problem.

I reallly am already prepared for the worst........I have been through dying modules, fried coils, fried fuel pumps before....but I just have this feeling that this one is terminal.

The good news is I have 2 other GT's (a red 86 and a black 86). The red one has an exhaust leak (from the exhaust system) that I will attempt to fixing sometime monday, as well as a leaky output shaft (4sd) that needs fluid every 3-4 days and the black one is in my garage waiting for it's owner to get the ambition to repair a brake issue, hang a door skin, and put in some new wheel studs for inspection. Man 3 fieros i'm starting to think is too much to handle!

The bad news is I will only have one day to either fix the 87GT, get the red 86GT ready (the other 86GT needs more time then I have to spend), or buy a cheap beater to get me through! Because I have work on Tueday!

Well any other suggestions are welcome....and thanks for the help so far!

Anyone have any ideas on my 87 coupe with the iron duke & auto. Oil in the coolant & no coolant in the oil. Not losing coolant was running good. Today I noticed was stalling & noisier then usual also don't know if it from the colder weather or the engine but it was smoking today, a white smoke.

Jazzman.....

No I only want to give the symptoms that my car is experiencing(hehehe)!

The only reason I questioned it (no insult towards you...I know you know your stuff....you have given me lots of useful advice in the past) but this is the first time I have ever experienced this type of problem and i'm trying to narow down the list. I have everything here from seized motor to bad battery! I am trying to get all the info possible so I know what to look for......not to mention this thread could serve others with simular problems! So the more info contained in it the better the community will benefit!

I am siding with the idea that the motor is gone just because of the sound the exhaust was making and the decrease in performance. My brother said he always thought a seized motor wouldn't turn over.....so I wanted to findout if that in fact was true.

I have often heard the term "seized engine" but never had first hand experience with a seized motor so I relied on what the term "seized" means to me and what I was being told (not just here on the forum).

Thanks again for the time you all have invested in this thread!

Thanks!

Camon,

Our 2.8 motors generally fail one of two ways, wear out or catastrophic bearing failure. Wear out usually occurs with the rings and rod bearings gradually, over time. Rod bearing failure usually occurs after a fairly extended period of low oil pressure due to worn out bearings in the motor. Rod knocking followed by a loud bang and pieces of the motor littering the road behind the car is the typical result. Overheating to seizure can cause other failures, the least of which is head gaskets and bearings. Do you think the engine got really hot? If not, then seizure may not be what happened here.

If overheating didn't happen then other scenarios are likely. Slowly running poorly, then dying, followed by slow cranking and clicking of the starter solenoid would make me think the battery died, most likely as a result of a failed alternator or belt.

Since you haven't got catastrophic noises going on then I would tend to think it's not a terminal problem.

JazzMan

i had a similar problem in a friends beretta with a 2.8 today ran fine then we went to slow down for the stop light and the engine made a strange noise STEP 1. we attempted to limp the car to a gas station when the light turned green the noise got louder and the engine lost more power STEP 2. finaly as we went to turn into the gas station the motor would barely run and died had to push it the rest of the way STEP 3. from what i heard and felt... the engine still cranked over and wasnt really hot... was that the timing chain was jumping teeth not sure yet cause the car was just towed and i have yet to have time to do anything. thats just my 2 cents. if anyone has any ideas what this problem is it would be much help also. thanks and i hope it helps some.

whoops!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[This message has been edited by camon (edited 12-26-2004).]

Possibly your alternater went to alternater heaven and you used all the remaining current in the battery untill it died (or possibly loose battery cables).As for the change in exhauset note that could be caused by a blown exhaust manifold gasket,cracked exhaust manifold or your cat went into nuclear meltdown.Sounds like your battery needs a charge,an over heated motor can be hard to start.Other posibilities could be a bad fan or fan relay causeing the car to over heat,then causeing the fuel to boil and then die on the side of the road.

[This message has been edited by James Bond 007 (edited 12-26-2004).]

Check the timing chain or gears. A real advanced cam will be hard to crank and maybe thats whats causing the exhaust note change.

quote Originally posted by steve1173: Anyone have any ideas on my 87 coupe with the iron duke & auto. Oil in the coolant & no coolant in the oil. Not losing coolant was running good. Today I noticed was stalling & noisier then usual also don't know if it from the colder weather or the engine but it was smoking today, a white smoke.

White smoke = coolant being "combusted", or ATF leaking onto a hot exhaust. Should be a different thread.

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 12-27-2004).]

You mentioned above that your new exhaust system was clamped and not welded. Is it possible that with intermitent spark you loaded the exhast with raw gas and it fired loosening a connection. That would account for your change in exhaust note.

[This message has been edited by Wolfhound (edited 12-27-2004).]

if at all possible, take a good charged battery to the car before towing it to see if you can run it long enough to get it home. (just to avoid the towing bill) if it is a bad alternator you can then get one for the price of the tow...

See how hard the engine is to turn by hand. If it still turns easy there may be no internal problems.
You said the following: "filled up, got on 283 heading home when about 2 mins after getting on 283 I nailed the throttle to pass a slower moving car the car hestitated bogged out and stalled. While coasting it fired up again on its own. After it fired up it had a loud exhuast tone ".
You possibly may have bad fuel (doubtful) or your starter may have hung up after starting and remained engauged with the flex plates ring gear. As the starter motor turns faster and faster (with the engine running) it will heat up and begin to drag sort of like a jake brake on a big truck. (feels like a loss of power) As it gets hotter the brakeing effect will get larger and the solonid will possibly fail and the car may loose power because of this and shut off engine electronics while the fuel pump continues to run off the oil pressure switch. It may have then cooled off enough to regain some power to the engine and restart and burn up unburned fuel in the exhaust system making it a louder or deeper pitch till that fuel is burned.
KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid an old saying of mine) Check out the starter for sh!ts and grins.

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: A broken belt would cause the battery to go dead (no alt) and the engine to overheat (no waterpump).

Good answer!

Well it is safe to say the car is gone!

The tow truck just dropped it off. It costed 75.00 (alot cheaper then I thought it would be).

I threw a brand new battery in it and it still cranks over slow. It started turning super slow after about 30 secs. it got alittle faster but it is still real slow (to slow to even make me have any hope that it will ever fire again). So I think it is safe to say the motor is gone.

Hate to get rid of the car......the interior is in realy good shape and there are alot of newer parts on it but I don't know if I want to invest the money in getting it rebuilt and I don't see me having the time or patience to part it out!. I think it would be cheaper to just buy a beater car until I get one of the other ones totally road worthy!

Well thanks for all the help....... I do have to admit....... this was one of the worst christmas weekend I can remember having!

One more thing, I've seen Alernator bearings seize up and cause the engine to drag or not turn at all. If the belts are old cut them and see if it turns faster. Don't give up, I've seen little problems act like big ones.

Keith, i sent you a PM.

Matt

Kekipi.....

Thanks for the suggestion!

The belt is only 1 month old but cutting it don't bother me!
I will snip it off Tuesday (provided it isn't to aweful cold out when I get home from work)!

Just a folllow up on things I noticed when looking around the engine compartment.....

I removed the distr. cap (needed to put the EGR tube on my red 86GT and needed more room to work) and noticed the rotor had lots of carbon buildup on it (never seen that much buildup before and it was replaced 1-2 months ago), not to mention I had to break the rotor to get it off the distr. shaft (don't know how it fused fast like that).

I wanted to check the compression but the motor doesn't crank fast enough to even attempt it. So how will I be able to see what happened in there (are there any tall tale signs to look for besides the slow cranking, maybe on the plugs or oil). Will draining the oil tell me anything......I know metal can be seen in the oil when rod and bearing failure occurs, How about other engine failures???

Wel thanks again guys...

Mattm PM back at you!

------------------

1987 Fiero GT (2.8 auto)
1986 Fiero GT (2.8 4spd)
1986 Fiero GT (2.8 4spd)

Keith F.

New batteries can sit on the shelf for a month or more,plenty of time to go flat.Try throwing it on the charger for an hour.

The battery was bought on Sunday. I put the battery in the 86GT today so I had transportion and it ran perfectly fine in that car (cranked over real strong) so I don't see anyway the failure to crank condition on my 87GT could be on the battery!

Thanks for the suggestion though James Bond 007.

im not gonna go through 500 steps of diagnostics because mach10 likes to troll all my posts.

Pull your plugs out and crank the engine over using a ratchet. It should be very easy to turn over.

You could have a bad starter, electrical issue, something locked up that uses the serpentine belt
something broke inside your transmission, or your engine is bad internally.

[This message has been edited by CertifiedMechanic (edited 12-27-2004).]

quote Originally posted by camon: The battery was bought on Sunday. I put the battery in the 86GT today so I had transportion and it ran perfectly fine in that car (cranked over real strong) so I don't see anyway the failure to crank condition on my 87GT could be on the battery!

quote Originally posted by CertifiedMechanic: Pull your plugs out and crank the engine over using a ratchet. It should be very easy to turn over. You could have a bad starter, electrical issue, something locked up that uses the serpentine belt

I said it once before, check your starter.
You've proven it isn't the battery by placing it in another car and it cranked fine and ran fine as well.
You're already doing more hard work than checking the starter you might as well be lazy and check it.
Won't do anything but perhaps get the car going again.

Yea,as Indiana_resto_guy says check the starter also check the ground that goes from the battery to the engine block.Did you check the contact sides of the cables that attach to the battery for corosion?I once owned an 84, were rain water would drip down the back of the engine compartment and drip on one of the starter wires and caused a heavy buildup of calcium,preventing the car from starting.

I am back at work again after the short x-mas holiday and will need to wait til friday to check anything else out on the car (*I have a few thing that were suggested on here to give a shot). Getting off at 5:00 sucks because by the time I get home (25mile drive) it is dark!
I have done lots to this car mechanically but never messed with the starter. You want me to pull off the starter and what will I be looking for (or will it be plain to see a problem).
Thanks resto for the idea....you are right I tried other things so this is worth a shot aswelll.

Also the battery cables look good and the ground is fine. I checked this out last week when my old battery (3 years old) died and had to replace it because of it's age and cold weather drained it dead! Good suggestion though!

Thanks for the continued support....you guys are great!

If you take the starter to Advance Auto they will test it for free.

Jen

Be sure to unhook the battery before you start working with the starter.

quote Originally posted by camon: by the time I get home (25mile drive) it is dark! I have done lots to this car mechanically but never messed with the starter. You want me to pull off the starter and what will I be looking for (or will it be plain to see a problem). QUOTE] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Fierochic88: If you take the starter to Advance Auto they will test it for free. Jen

The winter time sun sort of sucks, eh? Think about Alaska! LOL
Not a visual call, do what the woman says.
Hi Jen, any new horses?

[This message has been edited by Indiana_resto_guy (edited 12-28-2004).]