I'm not saying their out to get us....not any more than any other jealous/ambitious hard working nations. I'm just saying they've been waiting to fuse into the greatness of America for some time now (electronics and cars), just like China (fake dog poop and everything else small, cheap, and everyday), just like Europe (this goes WAY back since we're from there), just like Arabia (oil and religion)....etc. etc.

You can do your part by not "buying into" these things. Buy American, work American, drive American, wear American, use American...its the only way to win in today's world of covert economic warfare.

Having said all that....putting a Japanese engine in a Fiero is completely unnecessary and a bad idea. Does that mean someone still isn't going to do it? Nope....and I'm surprised it hasn't been done more. Just move out of the way when you see me coming in my future black LS8 rice's ultimate nightmare.

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I would do a Nissan Maxima 3.5 6speed 270HP in one of my 88's in a heart beat if I could find an entire total at an auction. It would not be any harder to do then the 3.5 S* I already did. Pluss I would get a 6speed tranny with a MASSIVE aftermarket to help get more power out of it. Remember this is the same exact engine that is in the Nissan 350, it just has factory hop up parts to boost it to 290HP.

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They push this engine to 500+ hp pretty regularly with crazy boost and with proper build (they can get the parts!) they DO stand up to abuse pretty well. So it is at least worth a look.

Anyway.
So I measured up a complete package; it would be the only way to go as Honda makes the engine 'in reverse' to the fiero trans, which means you have to go with the whole shootin' match. And, there may be a problem, or at least a concern. By my initial tape measure measurements, the Honda's exh manifold (at the FRONT of the Prelude) would be VERY close to the fieros firewall. Like maybe pushing against it. You have to centre the trans axle shafts on the fieros axle line and that sets the engine in that position. I suppose you could set it a bit farther back and have angles in the driveshafts..... but I don't think that is ideal.
So that is my first fairly quick look at it. Too bad; it IS a great setup with a lot of potential. And that is even MORE important if you want to go with boost.......how to you (or WHERE do you) install your turbo and you have very little room for a custom header etc etc.

just a tidbit for everyone.......maybe someone will do more exact measurements.

How is it a bad idea? Is it because its japanese? Most of the shocks on this board are KYB, which are of japanese origin, are they a bad idea? And whats an LS8? Is that the LS2 but 6 models down the road? Seems alot of hating for the sake of hating.

when i was deciding what engine in my 86 gt there were a couple of import moters i thought about, but that being said i'm not going that way, i think that the costs outweigh any posible benifits. i just wish there was a after market for gm engines like there is for imports

On my way to my brother's house for T-day dinner, I saw a late '80s Honda Civic DX with a huge "UNION YES" bumper sticker on it, and I nearly laughed my [testicles] off. "I support my union brothers! I support them by buying a car...uh...that WASN'T made with union labor by a company which does NOT have unions in any of its factories!" heh

I've seen so many Japanese cars with pro-union stickers of various kinds that I have to wonder about the people driving the cars. Are they serious, or is it an attempt at the use of irony??

I think that Americans should buy American, but what does that mean? For me, it means buying from an American company. Yes, there are Hondas and Toyotas which are assembled in the US, but where does the profit go? It goes to Japan; it doesn't stay here. The folks employed at the BMW plant here in the States, they make good money, but the profit from all those US-assembled Beemers goes to Germany. The main reason foreign companies want to make their products here is so that they save money--Germany and Japan have varying levels of socialism in their long-term economic policies, and that means that the overall cost of hiring someone to assemble your products is higher.

Besides that, there are no workers anywhere in the world who are as productive as Americans!

So: my 1995 Ford Escort is half (or more) Mazda. So what? Ford owns some 35% of Mazda the last time I checked, and anyway, whatever profit Ford got out of that car stayed in the US, because Ford is an American company.

And that's good enough for me.

* * *

As for swapping Japanese engines into a Fiero:

Whatever floats your boat! It's not a swap I would choose, but that's me. The whole thing about customizing a car is to do what YOU want to do, and if you want a Japanese motor, go for it.

I think there would be many technical issues to be dealt with, but it's not really my problem...

Ed

Believe it or not, citizens of "other countries" look at American owned companies located in their backyards and wonder the same thing!

So from the listed above there is no reason not to use a Japanese engine if you can get over the re-engineering hurdles of making an adapter as a matter of fact they do have more power making potential over their American counterpart when modified for example a 350 small block that is street modified and daily driven will rearly get you in the 10 sec 1/4 or 700hp range yet a Supra modified with after market turbo will easily produce 1000hp with 9 sec pass and I am talking from personal experience working on Supras and MR 2's so yes I would definately use a Jap engine it it was convenient to install BTW I use a caddie 4.xx motor .

[This message has been edited by Master Tuner Akimoto (edited 11-28-2004).]

It's one thing to spec out the HP, but torque is a huge factor.
The 3800SC is 260hp but it is also 290 ft/lbs of torque. The Mits being 276hp is only 260 ft/lbs
I couldn't find a 365hp 2JZ-GTE only the 280hp / 265 ft/lbs crate engine. But an LS1 V-8 is 350hp/360 ft/lbs. A ZZ4 carb'd V-8 is 355hp/ 405ft/lbs. The new WRX STi's are 300hp/300ft/lbs.
There are many more engines to compare, but the bottom line is, most american engines have more torque than the imports. Just look at the towing capacity of american trucks vs. imports. Horsepower is great during the last half of a 1/4 mile race. Torque works during the first part.
I'm not saying one is better than the other, Just pointing out that comparing HP alone isn't a true indicator of how good an engine is designed.
My 2002 BMW 325Xi with 187hp/215 ft/lbs inline 6 is faster then the 200hp/190ft/lbs V-6 Mits I had and the BMW is AWD.

BTW ~ The Supra engine you posted isn't stock and if I remember correctly Japanese Spec is slightly higher than what they put in the U.S. cars. Although $4K isn't a bad price for a twin-turbo 3.0L engine WITH a trans and would be nice in a Fiero.
(from swapjdm.com)

2JZ-GTE - SUPRA TWIN TURBO, TWIN CAM 3.0L, 24 valve, 280HP/265FT/LBS. Japanese Spec. Includes Engine and Transmission.
US$3999.95 + Shipping.

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 11-28-2004).]

Now the real irony, even if it is built on this side of the border we still pay import taxes.

[This message has been edited by 86fieroEarl (edited 11-28-2004).]

Thats also an inline 6. Thatd be bloody hard to install in a Fiero

It's one thing to be proud of where you're from, nothing wrong with that, but comments like the above are pretty silly.

look what a mess I started-lol I would never do a Japenese swap into my car--Unless she was really cute---
I have been working on a 4.9 this whole past year ---I hope to be driving it soon.
We went to the Turkey Rod Run at Daytona yesterday and had a great time.

Well, sorry you don't like it, but it's true.

I wish I had statistics to cite--I really do. Unfortunately, this is one of those things I learned, and then forgot where I learned it from.

However, if you divide GDP by employed workers it gives a fair estimate of per-capita productivity. The US is the top producer in the world--as it's the largest economy in the world, this goes without saying--and our work force is probably in the area of about a hundred million people. Figure a ten trillion dollar economy divided by a hundred million and...hmm...ten to the 13th divided by ten to the 8th is ten to the 5th...$100,000 per worker. That's a really ROUGH figure but I could refine it if needed.

If anyone has figures for other countries, chime in. Prove me wrong!

Ed

Sorry Ed, it doesn't work that way. You made the original statement, you back it up.

Who's little agenda? I was simply responding to comments made in this thread.

Cliff, PLease take my thread to the trash can now.

Thank you
Jeff

Aren't you kind of overreacting, or is there something about "your" threads or Ed's posts I should know about?

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where did you get your hp ratings from chevy 350's range from 120hp up to 375hp na depending on the year. a 91 turbo eclipse 4g63 only had 200hp with the good turbo. I think the WRX was only 235hp and quote me here "boost is a wonderfull thing" a 1,000hp turbo 4cy will require race fuel to run the same hp can be achieved on pump gas with a turbo sbc.

back on topic I think a good 4g603 or a turbo V-tec or anything turbo would be cool in a fiero. Oh and the 2JZ engien

[This message has been edited by sheppard00 (edited 11-29-2004).]

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White 84 SE with the Duke, Holley TBI, MSD Coil, Hi Flow Catalytic Convertor

I too am interested in a Honda Jap swap. I love the Lotus that they put the Type R engine in and I can think of nothing better than a lightweight, reliable, high revving engine in a body we all love. I love Honda reliability but hate FWD and Honda has yet to make a body that I like. Also the BIG BIG BIG difference in any Honda to Fiero I have owned is the amount I have been able to drive them. The Fiero is always up on jack stands and the Honda is always ready to go in the driveway. Case in point, my 87 GT 5spd doesn't currently run and my wife's Civic is what we use to drive everywhere.
Anyway, you say the trans was on the other side in your car but in the new K-series engines the trans is on the same side as the Fiero. A B-series engine (Integra) might be an easier swap. Also if you wanted to stick with an older engine the B series engine are smaller than the H series (big block compared to small block basically). Also if you wanted to stick to a H-series engine I wouldn't worry about having an angle to your driveshafts by setting the engine back a little. Think about it, every truck known to man has an angled driveshaft and a lot of HP and weight but they do it just fine. If the driveshaft argument doesn't work for you what about every truck with IFS (independent front suspension). They have angle (down vs front back) in the axles/cvjoints but they don't have a problem with them. Also a Honda engine doesn't have a ton of torque and with the less weight of the Honda engine there wouldn't be a lot of strain on the driveshafts.
I have thought about the swap some but my main concerns are shift linkage and driveshafts. I think the driveshafts could be fixed by taking half of a Fiero shaft and half of a honda shaft and have them sleeved welded and balanced (simple solution, complex would be having new shafts made with a Honda spline and a Fiero spline). That way you have Honda on the inside and Fiero on the outside so everything there is stock besides the axles.
I can't help but think the shift linkage would be backwards since you are now shifting the trans from in front rather than behind. Wouldn't first gear be down and right as opposed to left and up? I'm sure there is a simple solution to this by maybe having the linkage at a different point either above or below the pivot point and then maybe turning the linkage on the Honda side over, but I haven't looked close enough to really tell yet.
As for the wiring I think I would just strip EVERY wire from my Fiero and install ALL Honda wiring into it replacing gauges as needed. That is one think I HATE about our Fiero's is GM did a shitty job of wiring in the 80's which contributes to the Fiero unreliability.

The more I think about it the more I like it, I have a welder, torch, chop saw, and Fiero all I need now is the engine and a little...make that a lot of time and some money. Donations anyone??

How about you get some figures first.