I'm not trying to pick your words apart, but the Northstar is a wee bit lighter than the 2.8 V-6 which puts it quite a bit lower than the 500# mark.

Engine weights:

When I received my engine, the initial shipping estimate was 420lbs which is supposedly what GM says a fully dressed 3800 Series II SC engine weighs. This is pretty much confirmed by the actual shipping weight of 475 which included the crate, and kit parts to install from ACE. Now, the weight of my car went from 2780 lbs to 2870 lbs with swap from the 2.8 so that puts a fully dressed 2.8 somewhere around 330 lbs. Now Archie should be able to chime in and tell us what an average SBC weighs. I have heard numbers from 475-550 lbs. Can anyone tell us what a N* or 4.9 weighs from their actual shipping experience?
Complete the grid
2.8 - 330 lbs
3800 - 420 lbs
SBC - 500 lbs ???
N*/4.9 - ??? lbs

I can also add that a Getrag 5-speed weighs 75 lbs. I'm quite sure the automatics weigh quite a bit more than that.

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www.fieroexcitement.com
Rate me if I've been helpful! :)

quote Originally posted by RBeaubien: Now Archie should be able to chime in....

Nope sorry, can't help ya'

I don't have a horse in this race.

All I can say about those lesser engine swaps is that it's nice for people to get a taste for a bit of power with those smaller engines. Because then on their next Fiero they will KNOW that the only way they'll be happy is with a SBC.

So, you guys just go ahead and argue, I'll watch.

Archie

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I weighed mine COMPLETE before I put it in and it was in the vicinity of 425 lbs. No one believes me, however, because some book or other says it's supposed to weigh 475. Oh well... not my loss.

quote Originally posted by Archie: Nope sorry, can't help ya' I don't have a horse in this race. All I can say about those lesser engine swaps is that it's nice for people to get a taste for a bit of power with those smaller engines. Because then on their next Fiero they will KNOW that the only way they'll be happy is with a SBC. So, you guys just go ahead and argue, I'll watch. Archie

He asked a simple question that you should be able to answer.. instead you get cute and sidestep the question...wait.. come to think of it.. this is where my negative ratings started.. the Cast iron head SBC weighs 575 Lbs.. the Aluminum head SBC weighs 525 lbs (fully dressed)...Fish scales anyone???

quote Originally posted by RBeaubien: Now, the weight of my car went from 2780 lbs to 2870 lbs with swap from the 2.8

90lbs gain. Not bad. That's only 60lbs more than Dave's car gained going from his V6 automatic to a ZZ430/Getrag.

The auto to stick swap saved a lot of weight though, and your 90lb figure sounds like it puts the 3800SC very close in weight (as installed in a Fiero) to an aluminum head SBC.

No flame to you Archie but those so called "lesser engine swaps" would be called just that if you were comparing them with a sb chevy in something like a camaro but as far as the Fiero is concerned a SBC pushrodv8 is the lesser engine swap IMO because it doest fit the Fieros intended image of an American Ferrari. The high winding motor and corner burner capabilty is what the Fiero needs to fit that image and a northstar fits that alot better than a decades old pushrod v8, with the manual trans of course. Dont get me wrong, I love sbc and they are fun in a Fiero but not my kind of fun compared to a high winding dual cam v8 or v6. It would be cool to setup a chevy sb with the dual cam heads with a shorter stroke. I remember there were some DOHC heads out there awhile back for the sb, I think they were Donovan but not sure. Now that would be awesome with the short stroke Rodeck I used to have. Of course I was running it in a camaro and it was fun , 9.42 1/4 mile times :-)I would have loved to put it in a Fiero but I would have had to detune
it.

[This message has been edited by Erik (edited 07-12-2003).]

Don't forget to factor in the "Dave's stuff"??? that was in the trunk too... and the beat goes on... and on... and on...
..Archie just buy the scales and weigh the engines that you are so proud of pushing...

quote Originally posted by SanBerdueFiero: ..Archie just buy the scales and weigh the engines that you are so proud of pushing...

Im just wandering why he should? So some dumbass kid on the other side of the country can say the sea levels affect the weight, or some other retarded ass thing? People who do a SBC swap do it so they can say they have a SBC in their Fiero. Thats more or less the bottom line. Im 19, and have an LT1 sitting in my garage, and it will begin its voyage into greatness in 2 months. I just started my second job today. Ill get times for you, but its not for you, its for my own enjoyment. I dont think it will even hit low 13's, but who cares??? Ever been in a car that fast? Its fast. Plus im gonna bottle feed it. Might as well. In all honesty, its not the best 1/4 mile engine for this car, but it is the best for the assometer. And shock value as well, if I had a dollar for every ******* who said it wont fit, id have the damn thing in by now. Sorry about the rant, but these posts are starting to get to me. I guarentee 90% of you guys will probly never own any kind of upgraded Fiero, and yet you still bash whichever isnt up to your standards. Its f%$*ing retarded.

quote Originally posted by Mr. Pat: Im just wandering why he should? So some dumbass kid on the other side of the country can say the sea levels affect the weight, or some other retarded ass thing? People who do a SBC swap do it so they can say they have a SBC in their Fiero. Thats more or less the bottom line. Im 19, and have an LT1 sitting in my garage, and it will begin its voyage into greatness in 2 months. I just started my second job today. Ill get times for you, but its not for you, its for my own enjoyment. I dont think it will even hit low 13's, but who cares??? Ever been in a car that fast? Its fast. Plus im gonna bottle feed it. Might as well. In all honesty, its not the best 1/4 mile engine for this car, but it is the best for the assometer. And shock value as well, if I had a dollar for every ******* who said it wont fit, id have the damn thing in by now. Sorry about the rant, but these posts are starting to get to me. I guarentee 90% of you guys will probly never own any kind of upgraded Fiero, and yet you still bash whichever isnt up to your standards. Its f%$*ing retarded.

...........
1)"Im just wandering why he should?"
..Because he sells adapter kits to do this swap..is profiting by his participation on this "discussion forum" and IT IS a MATERIAL FACT that anyone should take into consideration before doing any swap. ( other than a swap for "SHOW" and not "GO")
2)"So some dumbass kid on the other side of the country can say the sea levels affect the weight, or some other retarded ass thing? "
.. twisting things a bit here???
3)"People who do a SBC swap do it so they can say they have a SBC in their Fiero. Thats more or less the bottom line."
.. I agree with you here..but there are still the dihards who try to say that the SBC is the ultimate engine swap for performance in a Fiero.. look back just a year ago when Fiero X got his car running and provided information on his success.. Funny how the SBC tune has changed ( And if anyone cares to look back, I have always said that the sbc swap is a "great show swap" but is lacking in the HP developement.. twist that statement around now..
4)"Im 19, and have an LT1 sitting in my garage, and it will begin its voyage into greatness in 2 months.I dont think it will even hit low 13's, but who cares???"
..This is exactly the point.. "I" care what the end result of a swap is.. you must understand that just because you don't care , you have no right bashing someone who does, and wants to know just what the results of doing this swap is in real time.. I know from facts posted that a 4.9 will hit high 13's with tweaking, and for the time and trouble and cost of doing the SBC is it really worth it. (for less than 1/2 second ??
Second point is that only people posting the results of their swap will provide that information to those of us that are not wanting to swap in a sbc just because..
5)"if I had a dollar for every ******* who said it wont fit, id have the damn thing in by now."
.. this sounds good.. but the fact is that it does fit..everyone who posts in this subject knows that it fits..So your point is directed to????
6)"I guarentee 90% of you guys will probly never own any kind of upgraded Fiero, and yet you still bash whichever isnt up to your standards. Its f%$*ing retarded."
..Interesting coming from someone who has an engine sitting outside of his fiero and a fiero ..
........
And as to the standards issue.. if the "standards" ladder is too high for you, you still don't have the right to resort to profanity and ranting..
You do have every right to do what you want with your car.. Just as I have the right to find out all the pro's and con's of each and every swap and discuss the fact that I might be wrong. Before commiting time, money and resources to upgrading my Fiero.
My bottom line is that for low 14 second 1/4 mile times a 4.9 is the best choice for the bucks. For high 13's a turbo 3.4 or TDC 3.4 is the best choice. For low 13's a 3800SC. For anything in the 12 second bracket an LSI is the way to go..repeating here that the COST vs RESULTS is the determining factor in my "standards".
..Care to DISCUSS the issues?? or just bash???

quote Originally posted by Archie: Nope sorry, can't help ya' I don't have a horse in this race. All I can say about those lesser engine swaps is that it's nice for people to get a taste for a bit of power with those smaller engines. Because then on their next Fiero they will KNOW that the only way they'll be happy is with a SBC. So, you guys just go ahead and argue, I'll watch. Archie

Thats not kewl. I am simply trying to compile accurate information for anyone looking to do a swap. You're the one that should know what a SBC weighs. Part of the reason I went with a 3800 was because of the belief (or perhaps misbelief) of information regarding the weight of the SBC (there of course were other reasons too). I have heard stories ranging from the same as a 2.8, same as the 3800 to 150+ heavier than a 3800. I am sure the weigh varies wildly with the actual block/heads combination.

I'm trying to turn this thread into a constructive discussion with valuable information regarding the different engines. You can only gain by putting out "correct" information regarding this. I, for one, am considering doing another swap with the 88 Coupe I just purchased and the availability of SBC's and parts for one weigh seriously in my mind. I'm sure others are in the same boat. I'd love to duplicate CaliKid's results.

So, please pitch in and ignore the idiots that can't participate in a constructive discussion without resorting to trying to prove one platform is better than another simply because it fits their needs. We all have different needs and desires in the "perfect" Fiero.

------------------

www.fieroexcitement.com
Rate me if I've been helpful! :)

So having a sbc in my garage means what??? Im not doing it? Because I have several thousand in my car so far, and only 1500 in engine and tranny. But I guess to you that means I wont be doing the swap. And the comment on people saying it wont fit, well that wasnt directed at anyone here, we all know it fits, it just shows your lack of comprehension. I said, another reason to do this swap is to shut up the people who say it cant be done, people who say if it can, it will twist the frame, or say it gets to hot, and therefore will catch on fire, which these cars do already apparently. How about this, you go and start a swap, whichever one you choose, and when its done, we will see which one is better. There will be many factors involved. Feel, sound, times, handeling, and then theres the all to important public pole. We can go around giving people rides, and see what they say. Will this settle it???? No of course not, because your probly not going to do a swap, and if you do, and I win, then there will be excuses, you will just continue to bash the SBC swap, as seems to be the trend these days. I already stated that this isnt the best swap if times is all your after. Ive said it many times. But in the end, you still have a V6. Now dont copy and past that one sentance, because the sc3800 is an AWSOME swap. Ive ridden in one, and it blew my mind.

And as for the comment on Archie having to weigh his engines, I still dont see why he has to. He's been doing it for what, 15 yrs now? Im pretty sure if the weight difference was that bad he wouldnt still be in business. But if you go to his site, he does give some weights, I havnt been there for a while, and I will when im done with this little note. The may not be there. But there you go. Care to comment? I sitll say your just another dumbass kid who likes to stire up trouble.

Just a comment... (please don't hurt me) Archie's site says you gain ~85lbs from a v6. That puts a SBC at 415lbs, which (from the post above) is exactly what the 3800 weighs. I can neither confirm nor deny these allegations.

I don't think that there is ANY swap that is the absolute king. Will, and others who have put in the N* have demonstrated a remarkable amount of savvy. Rob B. has done a good job too, with his 3.8. Archie sure doesn't have to prove his worth to anyone. The bottom line is do YOU like your Fiero? Heck, even a good stock Fiero might help you to get laid.

I need more help to get laid than a good stock Fiero!

[This message has been edited by dewey (edited 07-13-2003).]