I just finished installing 97 Cavalier rotors at the 4 corners of one of my 88's.

The rear was basically a direct swap, but the front required some machine work to the front hubs.

The cavalier rotors won't fit on the front because the diameter of the hat is somewhat narrower than the hat on a Fiero rotor. I didn't take any measurements, but I'd say it's close to 1/2 an inch.

I have a line from the wheel stud hole, to the inner edge of the hats in this picture, you can judge the difference in diameter.

I had a spare set of front hubs so I took them to my machinest, along with a rear wheel bearing and had him machine the edge off the front hub flange so that it matched the diameter of the rear hub flange.

I swapped the original hubs for the machined hubs, and the rotors lined up great.

I did remove the dust shields from the front and back. I believe the rear ones could be bent enough to clear the inner edge of the rotor, but the front dust shields definetly need to be removed as the inner edge of the rotor is quite close to the edges of the steering knuckle.

Eyeballing it up, I would guess there is an 1/8" gap there. I didn't take any pictures of this, maybe tomorrow.

Stock front rotor,

97 Cavalier rotor installed, (I wasn't real fussy when I cleaned the overspray off the rotor face as you can tell....)

Now I can use 20 dollar rotors at every corner of the car instead of 120 dollar rotors.

[This message has been edited by jelly2m8 (edited 06-23-2003).]

Neat work Jelly. You answered the age old question of why exactly the rotors would not fit and fixed it.

------------------

Red 88 GT T-Top 3800 INTERCOOLED SUPERCHARGED
White 88 GT Stock
Please give me a rating if you appreciate my contribution.
History of Skitimes Car UPDATED 6-20-03

Sweet. A plus for ya.

WOW! what a price difference! Very good to know! Thanks!

Drove the car some today, braking is perfect. No problems with the rotors rubbing anywhere.

Just to be clear... You used the Cavalier rotor with the OE calipers. Yes?

------------------
Nobody loves me. Everybody hates me. Guess I'll just go eat worms.

quote Originally posted by theogre: Just to be clear... You used the Cavalier rotor with the OE calipers. Yes?

Yes, all I changed in the brakes themselves was the rotors.

Kept the stock 88 Fiero calipers and pads on the original mounting brackets.

This would be another great reason for me to get the Held spindles that use the rear hubs on the front. Great job.

Steve

Nice job!

A quick question...

You said you had to remove the dust shields. I've also heard others say that the rotors were a bit closer to the knuckles, too. How much closer?
The only concern I have with that is if the caliper will reach the end of its travel on the sliders before the pads are worn out.
After a point, will the caliper "bottom out" and cause just one pad to try to do all of the stopping?
Perhaps I'm missing something. As you may have surmised, I've never done this myself.

Thanks!

------------------
Raydar

88 3.4 coupe. 17s, cut springs 'n all.

quote Originally posted by cancerkazoo: This would be another great reason for me to get the Held spindles that use the rear hubs on the front. Great job. Steve

Absolutely, positively, not. The 88 held spindles do use the rear hubs but that's where the similarities stop. The rotors for the held spindles are much bigger than the stock and cavalier rotors shown here. 11.3,11.75,and 13 inches to 10.25 inches for the stock rotors. These will NOT fit a held kit.

Besides, if you missed the fact that Held has quality issues and that they don't stand behind what they sell, check this link.

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/030452.html

And there are many more topics on it. On the forum and off.

soooo,
so much for the super 1988 breaks huh?? better to upgrade to a cavalier rotor--- I sure hope that if I print this thread and find a machinist, he will be able to figure out what I want him to do cause I'm not real sure what you had machined there.Looks like a good job though, thanks for your post.

There were a set of 97 Cavalier rotors (used) kicking around here, I was measuring them up and actually considered swapping the front on my '87 GT, seeing what modifications I'd have to make to use the Cavalier calipers.

quote Originally posted by jeffndebrus: soooo, so much for the super 1988 breaks huh?? better to upgrade to a cavalier rotor---

Aye. This is definately a good thing for the 88's, and makes replacing stock rotors actually affordable again. If you want "super brakes" I will be receiving a 12" corvette kit from WCF shortly. There was another thread recently about that. But I had to drop $600 for the kit and I'll have to refurbish my old calipers. But at least I'll be able to rip off that HMS kit and toss in the garbage.

This option, however, is a dream come true for those with stock 88 brakes. And there are deals for cross-drilled and slotted cavalier rotors all over the place. Check ebay for those.

Hmmm. You know Rodney Dickman could have the new bearings machined for a minimal fee and sell 'em........... <hint-hint>

quote Originally posted by Raydar: Nice job! A quick question... You said you had to remove the dust shields. I've also heard others say that the rotors were a bit closer to the knuckles, too. How much closer? The only concern I have with that is if the caliper will reach the end of its travel on the sliders before the pads are worn out. After a point, will the caliper "bottom out" and cause just one pad to try to do all of the stopping? Perhaps I'm missing something. As you may have surmised, I've never done this myself. Thanks!

On the rear, I would imagine that the dust shields could be easily bent back to clear, on the front it's just too close for the dust shields.

I will try to find time to get some back side views on the rotor to knuckle clearance, it is close.

I don't think there will be much of an issue with the caliper bottoming before the pads are worn out. I can pull the pads, and slide the caliper to either side and check

quote Originally posted by jeffndebrus: soooo, so much for the super 1988 breaks huh?? better to upgrade to a cavalier rotor---

I did this swap solely because of the price difference in the rotors, now I can buy all 4 rotors for less than the price of 1 stock rotor.

My machinest charged me 10 dollars to cut my hubs.

quote I sure hope that if I print this thread and find a machinist, he will be able to figure out what I want him to do cause I'm not real sure what you had machined there.

This picture might help you, the outer area I have the yellow arrow thingies on was machined off.

All I did was took the 2 front 88 hubs, and a rear hub to the guy and asked him to make the front hubs have the same diameter flange as the rear hub.

quote Originally posted by fierogt88: Hmmm. You know Rodney Dickman could have the new bearings machined for a minimal fee and sell 'em........... <hint-hint>

I was thinking that, I see no reason to manufacture these front hubs with that wide flange.

thanks for the positive thoughts peeps!

quote Originally posted by jelly2m8: ...I don't think there will be much of an issue with the caliper bottoming before the pads are worn out. I can pull the pads, and slide the caliper to either side and check...

Jeez. Don't go to a lot of trouble. I'm not going to be buying rotors for a while, anyway.

Thanks!

Now I can use 20 dollar rotors at every corner of the car instead of 120 dollar rotors.

[This message has been edited by jelly2m8 (edited 06-23-2003).][/QUOTE]

OK, so maybe this one of my many dense days, but you say the cavalier rotors are $20 each, but then must be machined to fit?
I buy new 88 rotors from NAPA for $66 each. Brand new. Fit perfectly. Add the cost of the rotor to the machining and what would be your cost, per rotor? This on an item that should last 50-75K miles and might be able to be turned for more mileage? Enlighten me please .....Paul

I would think currency conversion and part supply in small town Nova Scotia would have something to do with his reasoning. From what I can see, the machining is a one time cost(I think). I think he said that it cost $10 to do the machining and $20 for the rotor. Even if the machining cost is per whell, you are still getting new rotors for $30 a wheel. 30x4=120. Four rotors for the cost of one. Also, 88 rotors aren't going to get easier to find over time.

------------------
Trevor Hughes


www.FieroGroupBuy.tk Group Buys on all the best products!

quote Originally posted by Paul Prince: Now I can use 20 dollar rotors at every corner of the car instead of 120 dollar rotors. [This message has been edited by jelly2m8 (edited 06-23-2003).]

OK, so maybe this one of my many dense days, but you say the cavalier rotors are $20 each, but then must be machined to fit?
I buy new 88 rotors from NAPA for $66 each. Brand new. Fit perfectly. Add the cost of the rotor to the machining and what would be your cost, per rotor? This on an item that should last 50-75K miles and might be able to be turned for more mileage? Enlighten me please .....Paul

[/QUOTE]

As far as I can tell, the rotors themselves don't need to be machined. It is a one time thing on the front hubs. Am I correct in saying this? Hope this helps,
--Bryson

------------------
88 Fiero GT Quad4 Turbo...It has begun
88 VW GTI 16v
90 Olds Calais International H.O.
88 Fiero Formula

I am going to do this to one of my cars. I to may be a little dense, it seems there is no machining of the bearing or hub, just the wheel flange that the hub installs in. I am I correct in my understanding. There would be nothing for Rodney to machine since he is selling bearings not the flange.

Raydar, I'll check the caliper clearance, gives me a good reason to pull it apart to install the front lowering springs anyway

...................

The only thing that I had machined was a set of front 88 wheel bearings / hubs, that type of wheel bearing is commonly known as a hub assembly in the automotive field.

I had the wheel bearing flange ( the portion that the rotor seats against with the wheel studs in it) cut down in diameter.

The outer edge with the yellow marks on it was removed in a lathe. The wheel bearing itself was not dissasembled, he mounted the whole bearing in his lathe and cut away.

Basically I removed the stock wheel bearings, and bolted the machined ones in place, took a 97 Cavalier rotor out of the box and placed it on the car. No machine work what so ever was done to the rotor.

When rotor replacement time comes, I simply have to remove the old rotor and install a new one.

By machining the wheelbearing flange, I eliminated any future machine work needed.
The machine work I had performed was a one time deal.

I priced 2 different local parts suppliers, and 88 rotors cost $104.99 plus $15.75 tax is $120.74 dollars canadian each.

The 97 Cavalier rotors cost me $16.95 plus $2.54 tax for a total of $19.49 canadian each.

$66.00 us dollars is $89.00 canadian, even before any shipping, I'm still way ahead of the game.

And since the Cavalier is part of the "sport compact" movement now, I wonder if you can readily find cross-drilled or slotted rotors for them?

not to mention, the Cav rotors are usually a stocked item. That's a great thing for me, as I usually wait til the last minute anyways.

------------------
SSFiero@Aol.com Support Mental Health, or I'll Kill Ya!!
Yellow Formula Signature

• 88 Yellow FORMULA-undergoing ZZ3 350 with Accel 1000CFM Street Ram TPI and Gen VI DFI=345HP/390TQ
  
• chevy S10 Parts Fetcher-getting a new engine to haul my fieros(and others)
  
• 87SE V6 auto-L4 to V6 done, Daily Driver
  
• My Shower Cam

quote Originally posted by Paul Prince: ...I buy new 88 rotors from NAPA for $66 each. Brand new. Fit perfectly...

Holy smokes! Really?!

Last time I priced 88 rotors at NAPA, they were like $94, US. That was about 3-4 years ago, though.
Cheapest I've ever found was Fiero Store. Shipping would have to be a killer, though. Rotors are not light. Especially in multiples.

------------------
Raydar

88 3.4 coupe. 17s, cut springs 'n all.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: Holy smokes! Really?! Last time I priced 88 rotors at NAPA, they were like $94, US. That was about 3-4 years ago, though. Cheapest I've ever found was Fiero Store. Shipping would have to be a killer, though. Rotors are not light. Especially in multiples.

Really. Of course I buy all my parts at NAPA and have rebuilt 3 Fieros in the last 2 years, so they give me a fleet enema..er I mean discount . Anyway, I would suggest anyone who uses a lot of Fiero Parts contact a parts vendor (who knows what the hell they are doing) and ask for the discount. I think is is 30%.........Paul

I have seen on Ebay recently a company selling 4, 88 slotted and drilled rotors for $175.00. They are also coated to cut down on corrosion. This appears to be the same company(same phone#)that has been selling 84-87 drilled and slotted rotors.

Not being familiar with the two rotors, I have a question. When the diameter of the hub was machined down, that left less material mated to the disk portion. Does this compromise the strength and might possibly allow the disk to shear off the hub under sudden emergency stopping stresses? Machining techniques could also play a part in the integrity. At the point where the outer circumference of the hub meets the surface of the disk, a 90 degree juncture is more likely to develop a stress crack around its perimeter than a radiused juncture of the two planes.

If this works, are there any vented disks to fit the 84-87 that we might use this process on?

[This message has been edited by fierofool (edited 06-26-2003).]

I don't think strength would be too much of an issue. Remember, the Cavalier uses the same bolt circle as the Fiero, and comes with the smaller hubs (obviously, since the rotors are made for smaller hubs). If anything, the Fiero hub is probably over-engineered or larger than it needs to be. Still, if someone knows otherwise, now's the time to let us know.

Anyone out there able to answer the strength question. I bought two rotors today from Autozone appx $14.00 each plus tax. If this is a safe option I'll have the front hubs machined and ready for cavalier rotors all the way around.

Strength won't be an issue, after machining my front bearings, there was the same amount of material from the stud outwards as there is on the rear bearings.

The rear carries alot more weight and stresses than the front does, and there is no problems with the back bearings in that department.

As Formula88 stated, just about all, if not all other front hub / rotor setups like this don't have that huge bearing flange like the front of the 88's do.

If anything, there is less flex in the Cavalier rotor hat than a stock 88 front rotor.

Jelly2m8, you are a genius! This will definitely be my next project! You have figured out a problem that has eluded our little fiero community, with such a simple solution. You’re my new hero

Thanks for sharing the info. I have just install a 4.9 in my 88 and the brakes will have to be done soon. The rotors may or may not be ok. I noticed that with the wheel bearing area in side the rotor being smaller the brake pad area is larger on the cavalier rotors. Have you checked to see if the Cavalier pads are larger and if so what would be involved in swapping the larger cavalier caliper/pads. Better braking for all cars is always a good thing.

Any possibility that the heat from machining could affect the bearing grease or temper of the hub metal?

quote Originally posted by bamman: Thanks for sharing the info. I have just install a 4.9 in my 88 and the brakes will have to be done soon. The rotors may or may not be ok. I noticed that with the wheel bearing area in side the rotor being smaller the brake pad area is larger on the cavalier rotors. Have you checked to see if the Cavalier pads are larger and if so what would be involved in swapping the larger cavalier caliper/pads. Better braking for all cars is always a good thing.

Hey bamman, welcome to the forum. Your swap sounds awful familiar to one I heard about talking with a gentleman from Windsor just last weekend.... Hi Barry!

The cavalier pads are quite different, and larger both in depth and heigth, no way they will fit in a 88 Fiero caliper. I also wonder about the effectiveness of applying the braking force off-center on a larger brake pad, if it was possible to install a deeper/wider brake pad.

The Cavaliar caliper mounting holes are quite a bit farther apart than the Fiero ones, so an adapter would be required to mount those.

The only GM caliper I can think of that may be close to the same mounting pattern as the Fiero caliper is the rear calipers from the early 90-ish W-body's.
Sadly those W-body rear calipers were the worst caliper ever to hit the roads....., and they have even a smaller surface area pad than the 88 Fiero's.

Brooklyn is only about an hour away from me, I'd like to check out your project sometime!

quote Originally posted by spark1: Any possibility that the heat from machining could affect the bearing grease or temper of the hub metal?

My hubs were cut on a machine lathe, and the guy charged me 10 bux at a 60 dollar an hour shop rate......, I don't imagine it took very long for him to cut the excessive off seeing he had to mount them in the lathe.

I asked about any issues they could forsee by cutting the hubs as this was my only set of spare hubs, and I did not want to chance ruining them, we all know how hard these are to find.
2 guys at the machine shop could see no effects on cutting the hub, whether it being changing the temper, or the strength of it.

I didn't see any signs of excessive heat, or of grease leaking from either the dust cap, or the seal.

[This message has been edited by jelly2m8 (edited 06-30-2003).]

<<<<The rear was basically a direct swap>>>>

that info alone is worth about $120, if i get you right

what do you mean by "basically"

quote Originally posted by cccharlie: <<<<The rear was basically a direct swap>>>> that info alone is worth about $120, if i get you right what do you mean by "basically"

Basically a direct swap means that if I did not remove the dust shields on the back, I could have pulled the rotor and slid the new one on.

One can leave the dust shield on there, and just swap the rotor, but you would have to bend the dust shield to clear the rotor.

Do dust shields really serve any useful purpose?

How much would you need to bend the dust shields on the rear? I really don't want to screw mine up, and I'd like to keep them.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: How much would you need to bend the dust shields on the rear? I really don't want to screw mine up, and I'd like to keep them.

Formula, I installed the rotors on the rear, and they turned very easily, but I could hear them lightly dragging on th edust shields, so I simply removed them.

I would imagine a slight bend in them would make enough clearance.

Most new cars now-a-days do not use dust shields, so if the penny pinchers believe it is safe enough to run without them, I'm fine with that.
I've put hundreds of thousands of miles on Fiero's without brake dust shields without any issues.

Cool! Thanks.

Time for new rotors on the T-Top, had these done today.

I'll get those pics for you this time Raydar!

[This message has been edited by jelly2m8 (edited 07-21-2003).]