If you've done it what did you use to cut them and how long did it take?
I started on my frontend tonight and everything is going great! A-arms are off and bushings are out, ready to put back together as soon as I get the springs cut. Started to use a hacksaw but after 10 minutes the finish is barely scratched!

Hacksaw is frustrating me! Jigsaw with metal cutting blade is ineffective!
Don't have a sawzall or dremel, trying to figure out which to get if I'm going to spend money on a tool.

Please share your experience.
Thanks, David

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http://www.geocities.com/fierorulz/

Angle grinder with a cutoff wheel is your best bet. You could use a cutting torch, but you can lose the temper in the springs, so I wouldn't recommend it

I used a circular saw with an abrasive cutting wheel I think I paid $6.99 for a pack of 4 disks at sears. It took about 30 seconds. I would advise caution and clamping the spring in a vice.

A dremel tool is very useful, I have split nuts, cut fiberglass openings, and even cut the spring perch off my struts (coil-over) with mine.
Its not even a dremel its just a cheep rotary tool from Wal-Mart. Wal-Marts also has disks and other cutters. It was a good buy.

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My Home Page

I used a cutting torch and zipped through in seconds. I used a wet rag just below my cut as to not heat up the rest of the spring. worked perfectly was cool to the touch right under my cut.
James.

Thanks for the input guys, I'm torn between picking up some abrasive cutting disks for my circular saw and buying a rotary tool. Guess it's time to go shopping!

You don't need any tools because you don't want to do it.

The result will be crushed bump stops, impossible alignment, worn tires, a bone jarring ride, and bottoming out on every speed bump on earth. The reason is that your spring rate changes so that what you "think" is a 1 inch drop will become a 3 inch drop over a short period of time.

Buy lowered springs and/or spindles and do it right. The result will be mind blowingly better.

Oh God, get over it.

You will be fine. I would have suggested to use a chop saw but the grinding disks will do fine as long as you take it slow and don't heat up the spring. Yes the spring rate will change, but big deal. It's not like there is an ENGINE up there or anything.

I will suggest you do take the time to let your springs "settle". Looks are deceiving until you drive it for a couple of days and then the top coil will level off. I only hope you did not cut off too much, because this mistake can be easily made. If you did, you will know it soon enough. After installing the cut springs, pounce up and down on the front a little bit and listen for any popping or knocking. You might need to shave your bumpstops if you went too low. Do this by heating up a hot blade and sawing through the rubber. Again this all depends on if you went mild or wild on the drop.

When you're done, you must get a front end alignment IMMEDIATELY or you risk the chance of chewing up your tires. Do a search. I remember winning one of these spring cutting arguments a couple of years ago. Got pretty ugly though.

PM me if you prefer to avoid all the purists.

I cut one coil from my front springs and one half coil from my rear. I have the ws6 on my 85gt and I have driven it a few thousand miles so far. I didnt need to cut the rubber stops. I do regret not doing it sooner. I also installed a chin spoiler(like skitime) and I dont botom out on even the bigest speed bumps. The only time I ever did was when I stabbed the breaks just after my front tires were over the bump. I say go for it but be cautious and dont cut too much it wont settle to the final higth untill you drive it a while. You can get it to settle faster if you load the spring befor you tighten the a arm bolts.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: You don't need any tools because you don't want to do it. The result will be crushed bump stops, impossible alignment, worn tires, a bone jarring ride, and bottoming out on every speed bump on earth. The reason is that your spring rate changes so that what you "think" is a 1 inch drop will become a 3 inch drop over a short period of time. Buy lowered springs and/or spindles and do it right. The result will be mind blowingly better.

But I do want to do it. I've used lowering springs on pre 88's, I'm aware of how it affects alignment. I'll let you know how long it takes to drop 3 inches after removing one coil.
Appreciate all the opinions but I didn't ask should I do it, I asked for suggetions on different techniques to do it.
Thanks, guys.

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http://www.geocities.com/fierorulz/

So you're saying cutting one coil from the front will give you a 3" drop?

quote Originally posted by FieroMGDriver: So you're saying cutting one coil from the front will give you a 3" drop?

No, a fellow member said that what will start out as a 1 to 1.5 drop will keep sagging to 3in. I've never seen it happen personally so I was just saying that if it does I will let them know how long it took to sag that far.

DRA: If you screw it up, I have a pair of FRONT cut lowered springs that used to be on my car. Feel, fit & look great.
OUT>

DRA,

I cut one coil from my 88 coupe front springs. It dropped it 1-1.5 inches. I didn't cut anything from the rear.
IMHO, it just made the car look right. I installed poly bushings in the front, too. It does ride a bit more firmly (I'm guessing more from the poly than the cut), but it's not objectionable.

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Raydar

88 3.4 coupe. In progress.

Out of my mind. Back in 30 minutes.

If you can, try to borrow a deep cut band saw from someone. That way there will be a minimum of heat build up. I've cut springs specifically on Fiero's and had them tested, they always end up with a little bit tighter springrate than Intrex springs, with the same overall lenght.

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02' 3800SC Poly, Koni, Enkei

Can you quantify that?

quote Originally posted by StansGT: I've cut springs specifically on Fiero's and had them tested, they always end up with a little bit tighter springrate than Intrex springs, with the same overall lenght.

and lowering springs are cheap. If you can't afford the $200 to do it right, you can't afford the repair bill for f'n up cutting your springs.

quote Originally posted by Howard_Sacks: Can you quantify that? and lowering springs are cheap. If you can't afford the $200 to do it right, you can't afford the repair bill for f'n up cutting your springs.

I've never had a repair bill before, why would I have one now? The only service I've ever paid for were alignments and tire mounting/balancing. Why would I pay over $200 for a modification that is completely free and that if I don't like it later I can change it. It's not like I'm cutting the top off the car. Takes what, 1 hour to swap a spring?
Let the thread die, I got the info I wanted.

Appreciate the suggestions and opinions, David

quote Originally posted by Earl: I cut one coil from my front springs and one half coil from my rear. I have the ws6 on my 85gt and I have driven it a few thousand miles so far. I didnt need to cut the rubber stops. I do regret not doing it sooner. I also installed a chin spoiler(like skitime) and I dont botom out on even the bigest speed bumps. The only time I ever did was when I stabbed the breaks just after my front tires were over the bump. I say go for it but be cautious and dont cut too much it wont settle to the final higth untill you drive it a while. You can get it to settle faster if you load the spring befor you tighten the a arm bolts.

Ditto.

About two years ago, I cut 1 coil from the front springs of my '85 SE WS6, and 1/2-coil from the rear. The car has not settled noticeably. With an '87 coupe nose, the front air dam sometimes scrapes on driveway dips but not (yet) on speed bumps. Ride is stiffer but not objectionable (to me).

I like it.

quote Originally posted by MrPBody: With an '87 coupe nose, the front air dam sometimes scrapes on driveway dips but not (yet) on speed bumps. I like it.

yea, I also like it when my car scrapes against the ground.

Sparks when cornering at normal speeds are cool! So are unbearibly stiff rides! Cutting springs is awsome!

quote Originally posted by Adam: yea, I also like it when my car scrapes against the ground. Sparks when cornering at normal speeds are cool! So are unbearibly stiff rides! Cutting springs is awsome!

I'm not crazy about scraping, but on balance I like the overall effect.

I haven't noticed any sparks . . . .

quote Originally posted by Earl: I cut one coil from my front springs and one half coil from my rear. I have the ws6 on my 85gt and I have driven it a few thousand miles so far. I didnt need to cut the rubber stops. I do regret not doing it sooner. I also installed a chin spoiler(like skitime) and I dont botom out on even the bigest speed bumps. The only time I ever did was when I stabbed the breaks just after my front tires were over the bump. I say go for it but be cautious and dont cut too much it wont settle to the final higth untill you drive it a while. You can get it to settle faster if you load the spring befor you tighten the a arm bolts.

Hey Earl , on the front and rear springs , did you cut the top or the bottom of the coils ?

Galen Smith
Red 85 Sport Coupe
Founder of Suncoast Fiero Club
Florida Fiero Council

quote Originally posted by Adam: ...Sparks when cornering at normal speeds are cool! So are unbearibly stiff rides! Cutting springs is awsome!

And you cut how many turns? Goob!

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 02-10-2003).]

You know, I have nothing to gain from warning people about doing DUMB things. Maybe I'll stop trying to help people from making mistakes because every time i do it, morons flame me.

from https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20010116-2-004373.html

quote Originally posted by 1fst2m6: you car won't handle for crap and will eat struts like there going out of style. I worked at NOPI for over a year and seeing many people at the shop (over the past 4 years of dealing with them) come in complaining cause their car bounces all the time or is "leaking some stuff... "(pressureized shock oil) it eats your bushings faster... even if you drive it once a month.. don't waste you time cutting the springs. And don't HEAT them either! they'll just become brittle and break! and then your REALLY screwed! sorry to sound so harsh but i've delt with SOOO many people that have already messed up their car with these ideas.

quote Originally posted by DRA: I've never had a repair bill before, why would I have one now? The only service I've ever paid for were alignments and tire mounting/balancing. Why would I pay over $200 for a modification that is completely free and that if I don't like it later I can change it. It's not like I'm cutting the top off the car. Takes what, 1 hour to swap a spring? Let the thread die, I got the info I wanted. Appreciate the suggestions and opinions, David

I'd(and probably others) still like to know the numbers stan got when he got them tested along with the spring codes.

quote Originally posted by Howard_Sacks: You know, I have nothing to gain from warning people about doing DUMB things. Maybe I'll stop trying to help people from making mistakes because every time i do it, morons flame me.

Funny how *many* people have cut one coil and are very happy with the results.
Especially on the 88s, which sit higher in the front than the rear, anyway.
Do you drive an 88 (which was the car in question in the beginning of the thread, anyway)? No? Didn't think so.

I used to disagree with the whole idea of cutting springs, too, until I found myself with a spare set from a parts car. Thought I'd give it a try. Had nothing to lose.
Worked so well that I'm going to cut my Formula's springs, too.

As usual, thanks for your valuable input.

In addition to being designed to a specific rate, each spring is designed to support a certain load at a specified height.

When you cut a coil off of a spring, you are changing both the height and the effective rate without a clue of what they are changed to.

Letting people that do not know what the consequences of cutting off that coil think that it is the right way to do things is irresponsible.

And if 5000 dumb fiero owners did something idiotic, I still wouldn't do it.

Cut them... On my 86 GT I cut my ST lowing springs one coil on the front and back. Looks really nice drives really bad. I will switch out my rear lowering springs to coil overs the best way to do it. If someone wants them there for sale. 50.00 and there pre cut.

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" TARGET=_blank rel="nofollow">http://lowfierogt.150m.com

86.5 GT, 18" wheels, GA CD brakes, ST brace, Leather, getting 3800 SC
88 Formula 5 speed T-Top stock,
88 GT, t-top, 3800

quote Originally posted by DRA: But I do want to do it.

No you don't. What you WANT to do is lower your car. That is, of course, unless you just have a spring-cutting fetish of some sort.

Now your next question should be, "What are the various ways to do it and what are the costs versus rewards of each option?"

To answer that question:

Option 1) You can cut your springs. This is the cheapest method in the short term but the most expensive method in the long run. By removing one coil you will lower your car 1.2 inches. This will sag to 3 inches over 2 years (depending on driving habits).
The reason this method is bad in the long run is that once your car sags to your bump stops each time you hit them will jar your entire car. Here are just SOME of the results I have seen in the last 10 years of customizing Fieros; 1) windshields cracked, 2)rear windows popped out, 3) sheared lower contol arm brackets, 4) coolant return lines ripped out, 5) bent frames, 6) crushed ball joints, etc. And this does not include the obvious problems of alignment and tire wear. Do the words CHA CHING mean anything to you?

Now, if you just want to lower the car for looks and intend to carry it around on a trailer, cut your springs by all menas. If you actually want to drive the car, BAD idea!

Option 2) lowered spindles. This is the best option and does not cost that much. A set can be bought for about $450. This maintains the cars natural geometry and will not comprimise the integrity of the spring seats or travel. Performance will be enhanced dramatically and all of your other stock parts will fit.

Option 3) Lowered springs. This method is less costly than the spindles but still leaves you with the geometry problem. As long as the drop is not more than 1 inch then they are an acceptable solution. They are typically much thicker than stock and offer greater spring rates. Performance and looks are both improved marginally.

Option 4) Cut the frame. This is a cheap solution but requires great welding and engineering skills and I do not recommend it for the novice. By cutting the frame mounting points and welding in new points at higher profiles you will keep your stock suspension and lower the car at the same time. This makes maintenance easier.

Option 5) Alter the tire circumferance. A nice set of 15 inch rims with low profile tires has a surprisingly good effect. It lowers the car 1 to 1.5 inches and still looks proportionate. Have a look at this example (top picture): http://www.concentric.net/~atamelio/cars.shtml

You can still cut the springs if you must. But at least you now know the consequences. Good luck.

There are consequences to all actions, some involve more money than others, but when you talk about cutting springs by a minimul amount and cutting springs to lower your car some 3 inches, theres a huge differnence. I believe if you are looking for a result of some thing less than 2"'s than you can have luck with properly cut coils springs (key word "properly")

BTW, I tested three springs for rebound and compression in a material sciences class in a college class, what I found was that "my" stock springs cut to the length of 1-1/2" lowering intrex springs (brand new), came to almost matching results for both rebound and compression. However, keep in mind that I used specific tools and hardware to cut my springs, NO TORCHES, DIE GRINDERS, ABRASIVE CUT OFF TOOLS!!!!!!!!!!..... Heat will OBVIOUSLY effect your springs! (please, if you are not willing to be at least somewhat professional about your car, dont give advice to those who know no better!) As you can see, I had doubts originally about cutting something as important as my springs, so I went, and I found out my self, and if you're not sure also!, please do not take what I say to heart, find out on your own!

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02' 3800SC Poly, Koni, Enkei

[This message has been edited by StansGT (edited 02-11-2003).]

quote Originally posted by Howard_Sacks: ...When you cut a coil off of a spring, you are changing both the height and the effective rate without a clue of what they are changed to...

Not exactly clueless.
Sure there is some engineering involved, but it's not exactly rocket science.

Understand that I'm talking only about 88 front springs, because that's all I have modified.
I'll use the figures posted in the first thread that you referenced.

236#/in. for a stock Formula spring.

That poster theorized that cutting 1/2 coil would increase the spring rate by 10%.
I cut one coil from mine. Theoreticaly, that should give me a spring rate of 236# + 20%, or ~283#/in. *if* I used Formula springs. I did not. I used coupe springs. They may be softer. They may not. But it was a good place to start. (Based upon the number of coils, I seem to remember calculating 20%, as well.)

Consider this.
There are a wide variety of spring rates available for the Fiero. From "pillow soft", up to "buckboard wagon stiff". Seems like I remember a range of 200# - 375#.
An increase of 20% in spring rate is *not* radical.

As for how far the drop was going to be, that's pretty simple. Look at the car with the full weight on the wheels. How far between one coil and the next? (In my case, approximately 1.75".) Removing one coil will drop the car a maximum of that distance. Probably a bit less, due to the slightly increased spring rate.
In any event, the 88 front suspension has more travel than the previous years, anyway. Bottoming of the suspension shouldn't be any more of an issue than it ever was. In my case it isn't, anyway.

Of course the alignment will change a bit.
It added a bit of negative camber to my front wheels. Not always considered a bad thing. Can be adjusted out, in any event.
Toe? Needed to be adjusted. No surprise, there. Replaced a tierod end at the same time, so I had to reset it, anyway.
Don't forget that using "store bought" lowering springs will produce the *identical* alignment changes, assuming the same amount of drop.

Tightening up the spring rates may give the car a tendency toward more understeer (or less oversteer, if you want to describe it in those terms). If that is considered a bad thing (Automakers don't seem to think so.) it can easily be compensated for by stiffening up the rear by adding poly sway bar bushings, etc.
But wait, there's more!
A stock 88 coupe suspension has *no* sway bar in the rear, so upping the spring rate in the front, and adding a bar to an otherwise (very compliant) stock rear suspension ought to result in handling characteristics somewhere between a stock coupe and a Formula. That's not even considering the lower center of gravity.

So... What was the point of this rant?
Only that there sometimes is some method to the madness.
You seem to automatically assume that people who cut springs do so without thinking about what the consequences will be.
Not everybody takes the "ricer" approach of cutting springs (or heating with a torch ) until the car is sitting on the bumpstops.

Of course this is all MHO, for whatever it's worth to our fellow Forum members.

I don't expect you (Howard) to agree with this.
Truthfully, I couldn't care less.
Fire away.

[EDIT] Wow! Lots of info added since I started typing.

Todd,
Cut springs settle?! Not questioning what you have seen, but just wonder what the circumstances were. Perhaps they were not cut properly. I agree that using a torch is a bad idea. Takes the temper out of the steel.

Stan,
What did you use to cut your springs?

I used an air-driven cutoff wheel on mine. Any heat generated didn't make it any more than a couple of inches down the wire. I suppose that time will tell.

FWIW, Cooter's Fiero Store 88 lowering springs settled to the bump stops in a month, IIRC. I wonder what the story was behind that.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 02-11-2003).]

Of course you can screw-up your suspension by cutting springs, if you take it to extremes. But like some other theoretically bad techniques, it works fine if done in moderation. I've done it; I like the results.

Yes, cutting springs -- or installing lowering springs -- will perturb suspension geometry; however (again, speaking of a moderate cut):

> The car's suspension is still operating within its normal range of travel and geometry.

> '84-'87 Fiero front suspension geometry is pretty crappy already. Lower springs don't make the geometry worse; they may improve it.