Originally posted by Wipe0ut: $4000 for 160 horsepower? For that kind of horsepower why not just throw in a 3.4? Shizat, for $4000 I could put in a blown 350..
Who said anything about 160hp?
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11:26 AM
erikred Member
Posts: 246 From: columbus, OH USA Registered: Nov 2000
Originally posted by Slammed Fiero: Dude no offense to you , I have met a lot of Fiero people and Racers in General, Shaun is one of the most intelligent people I have met when it comes to engines. I have some nice pics here of his 3.1Ltr aluminum Block he is building with Gen 2 heads and Cooters old Twin TB setup. He has all the parts and isn't a talker like a lot of the people around here.
you may not like the way he comes off on the forum , but I am telling you , you can learn a lot. I think like most of us here he is tired of hearing people saying what they are GOING to do , and no seeing any action. there are a lot of internet racers out there.
Shaun is not in Jr. High either. He was the 15th member on this forum , And the first guy here to run nitrous.
What is the difference between a cracked and "broken" engine block?
I know I sound like his fan club , but he has helped me quite a bit with my nitrous install and even given 1FST2m6 a few tricks to use on his car.
I think shauns main point is that for the time and investment the Duke isn't worth it. It works well as a commuter engine , but as a performance platform it is weak at best.
Keep an eye out in the back of the SCCA publication "Sports car" and get yourself a real SD4 for around 4G's less induction. Or get a 2.4 z24 motor and bolt on the blower kit. Either way you will be way ahead of a duke with any kind of performance upgrade.
JM
Slammed, I appreciate your point of view, and thank you for not going off on me. The reason I said Shaun is in JR high is because judging by his replies and his profile he acts like it. Also, for $4000 I would be building a SD4 using used parts not a standard Duke, that can be done for much less but would not be comparable to a V8 swap.
Now I don't want to debate the Duke Vs. Anything on this post any more. If we need to debate that, start a new thread. The point I was making is $4000 to swap in a SBC is very expensive, yet that seems to be considered a bargain among many in the v8 crowd. Many people will tell you the Duke (just as an example)is too expensive to build and then turn around and say what a bargain a $4000 v8 swap is when the Duke (or many of the other engine options out their) could be built to similar specs and installed with less hassle for the same or less money.
Erik-
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11:42 AM
erikred Member
Posts: 246 From: columbus, OH USA Registered: Nov 2000
Originally posted by Shaun41178: Quit talking about going out and building a SD4 for $4k and just do it and prove us all wrong about the reliablility and power you will get. Go spend the money to get the parts. OR QUIT TALKING ABOUT IT!! YOU HAVEN"T DONE ANYTHING! SHUTUP!
Do I need to do a V8 install just to prove to you it can be done? The Duke is an extremely successfull race engine. If that is not enough proof for you, I don't see how anyone could prove any Fiero modifications to you.
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11:48 AM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Well, I have one reason why the 4.3 swap isn't more popular. There's a great article in this month's Hot Rod about a 4.3 buildup. They spent $3000 on the buildup and got 300HP out of the engine. Impressive, but that doesn't include the cost of the engine, or V8 swap kit to install it. By the time you're done, you've spent as much, if not more, than it would have cost to install a V8, and you have less power. Not a very attractive return on your investment.
Still, it's a good engine, reliable, and different. To some people, that's worth it right there. They are just in the minority, I guess. Not wrong, mind you, just not as many people who are like minded.
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02:54 PM
NEPTOON Member
Posts: 29 From: ORLANDO, FLORIDA USA Registered: May 2002
If anyone still cares, this months Hot Rod magazine has a buildup of the 4.3 v-6, They mention that the heads don't flow very well and very few aftermarket parts avail to improve this. You can't saw off a 350 head. My .02, go with a 3.8.
Neptoon, we already covered the points you mentioned. Review the previous posts. BTW, Hot Rod tried to make a big deal out of the Vortech carbureted Chevy kit and its power gains. The ProCharger guys have been blowing through carburetors and getting bigger power gains (under the same conditions) for years.
Back to the topic From everything I have seen and all the 4.3 guys (Sy/Ty guys and Mach Performance), the only thing needed to bolt an older intake onto the newer heads is to change the bolt angle. Weld the holes shut, build the area up, redrill the holes in the right spot, & spot face the bosses. The 4.3 guys mentioned above dismissed this procedure as a trivial hurdle to using the newer heads with an older intake.
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07:09 PM
88formula Member
Posts: 2361 From: Worcester, MA Registered: Oct 1999
Didn’t read the 85 posts above so if this has already been said I’m sorry. Hot Rod magazine just did an article on a NA 300 horsepower 4.3-liter v6 and how they did it. Now add the Vortec supercharger they also have in that magazine and you have a very powerful v6 engine.
Besides wouldn’t the 4.3-liter V6 fit better into the fiero engine bay because you wouldn’t have to cut into the wheel well? Correct me if I’m wrong.
V8 power is great but never underestimate the power potential the v6 has as a COMPACT powerhouse.
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[This message has been edited by 88formula (edited 07-03-2002).]
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10:29 PM
Leper No longer registered
Report this Post07-03-2002 11:04 PM
Leper
posts Member since
Yes the V6 is. However, there are other v6's that are easier to bolt in that are just as good at making HP.
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11:04 PM
Jul 4th, 2002
Will Member
Posts: 14280 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
Originally posted by 88formula: Didn’t read the 85 posts above so if this has already been said I’m sorry. Hot Rod magazine just did an article on a NA 300 horsepower 4.3-liter v6 and how they did it. Now add the Vortec supercharger they also have in that magazine and you have a very powerful v6 engine.
[rant] Do us all a favor and read the !@#$%$^ 85 posts next time. You're the 12th person to mention that article. Why are you contributing to a thread you haven't read? [/rant]
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02:02 AM
Smoooooth GT Member
Posts: 8823 From: Lake Palestine, Texas Registered: Jun 2001
erik....if go surf www.mantapart.com and look under engines then under 1.6/1.8/2.0 ohc section youll see a slew of very hardcore in ternals and bolt ons....and those did use the isuzu trans but i will investigate te starter location some more...i really want a turbo for the calais..and there is 3 complete 2.0 sunbird turbo motors at my local boneyard..and 2 run! check it out though i think youll be impressed with the selection of goods!
------------------ fun is rowin throo my 5-speed
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05:00 AM
88formula Member
Posts: 2361 From: Worcester, MA Registered: Oct 1999
Originally posted by 88formula: Like I said before I'm sorry.
Gees!
This forum isn't what I remember it once was.
O-well.
[This message has been edited by 88formula (edited 07-04-2002).]
Dude, chill. That wasn't directed at you, even though the 4 posts immediately prior to your post were all about the Hot Rod article. It was meant to catch everyone's eye because lots of people kept posting the same thing over and over. I was trying to get people to notice that, so they wouldn't keep posting the same thing over and over. Sorry, if it offended you.
[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 07-04-2002).]
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02:18 PM
vortecfiero Member
Posts: 996 From: Toronto Area, Canada Registered: Feb 2002
LOL THE 20 POST RULE LOL There's 20 post why I should post!!! GO FIGURE!! So can someone tell me why there are not more 4.3 conversions going in the Fiero's??? Thanks for your time. Gary Everyone have a great holiday.
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07:34 PM
Jul 5th, 2002
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
We've pretty much covered that. Most people feel that since it the same amount of work to install a 4.3 as a 350, they'll just do the 350. I don't know what kind of answer you're looking for. The 4.3 isn't a bad engine, but there are easier ways to get more power in a Fiero.
Some people do it because they like the engine. Or to be different. What other answer could you possibly be looking for? There is no one thing you can point to and say "this is why people don't do 4.3 swaps."
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12:17 AM
Smoooooth GT Member
Posts: 8823 From: Lake Palestine, Texas Registered: Jun 2001
Originally posted by Nbodyraser: erik....if go surf www.mantapart.com and look under engines then under 1.6/1.8/2.0 ohc section youll see a slew of very hardcore in ternals and bolt ons....and those did use the isuzu trans but i will investigate te starter location some more...i really want a turbo for the calais..and there is 3 complete 2.0 sunbird turbo motors at my local boneyard..and 2 run! check it out though i think youll be impressed with the selection of goods!
Thanks Nbody. I knew about Mataparts, I just thought you had a better source. Same here on the bone yard. I don't think there is a big demand for these engines as most people just junk the cars they came in. I can get one complete with computer for about $400. I have a turbo off of one I am going to put on my Duke. I know for sure the starter is on the wrong side, I double checked after they told my at the junkyard. I havn't looked into it hard enough to find out if it could be moved though. When using a S10 Duke in a Fiero the other side of the eninge gets tapped and the starter moved over there. I wonder if it would work on the 2.0?
Erik-
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11:40 AM
erikred Member
Posts: 246 From: columbus, OH USA Registered: Nov 2000
From everything I have seen and all the 4.3 guys (Sy/Ty guys and Mach Performance), the only thing needed to bolt an older intake onto the newer heads is to change the bolt angle. Weld the holes shut, build the area up, redrill the holes in the right spot, & spot face the bosses. The 4.3 guys mentioned above dismissed this procedure as a trivial hurdle to using the newer heads with an older intake.
stuffed in these 3 page's!!
