quote Originally posted by Wipe0ut: Oh, one more question. This is correct, right? 4.5L V8: Cadillac Deville, Seville, ElDorado 1990 4.9L V8: Cadillac Deville, Seville, ElDorado 1991-1995 Thanks.

The 4.5 I believe started back as early as 1988 all fwd caddies. The 1990 4.5 switched from TBI to PFI. In 1991 fwd caddies went to 4.9 PFI.

Hope I am accurate enough for you.

Pete

The 4.5 was available later on, too..

What are some numbers for a TBI 4.5? Horsepower, ft/lbs. etc. Would it be worth doing the swap? Just as easy?

[This message has been edited by Wipe0ut (edited 07-02-2002).]

bump, (can't get enough)

It has been said before, if you have a line on a 4.5 really cheap than get it because they still have quite a bit of torque. And if every you come across a 4.9 later they are the same block and would be an easy install using the same mounts as the 4.5.

Sorry I do not know the 4.5 hp and torque numbers.

Ah, never to fear, I found a site with some useful information. http://w1.853.telia.com/~u85306919/Cadillac_engines.html
I don't know, it says the 4.9L is 200/245, I thought it was 200/275.. different means of measuring possibly?

I'm sure it's a typo or incorrect information.
He has N* torque specs wrong, has a version of the 4.9 listed at 295 HP, and has the '90 4.5 listed as tbi instead of efi/pfi. And that's just the stuff I know of the top of my head.

He has a version of the 4.5 listed as having an iron block from '88-'90. Is this true? I've never heard of such a thing before.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 07-03-2002).]

I don't want to start any kind of flame war or anything but what can a 4.9 fiero realistically beat?

Mustangs?
Camaros?
Vette?

Also, Bluemagic, how are you getting over 350hp out of a cadillac 4.9? I thought these engines had little for mods because they can't take them.

Will they take a hit of Nitrous? 25,50,100 shot?

Is there anything you can do to this engine to get more RPM out of them?

If alot of these questions have been answered in other threads, repeat them. It would be great to get all the information in 1 place.

Thanks for your time
Levi

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86 GT 4 speed 125,000Km

*sigh*

Why is it always about "beating things" ?

First of all, it's not (in stock/mild form) a high-horse motor.

It's a low-revving TORQUE BEAST in a light car. It'll give you stupid-low 60ft times, decent 0-60 times, but not-so-impressive 1/4 times.

It's good for ripping tires to shreds.
It's good for light-to-light showing off.

the REASON that there is *NO* aftermarket is because the 4.9 is found in CADILLACS. Where I come from, Granny Smith doesn't go sunday-night cruizing!

Now, understand that it's a thin-walled aluminum block. It has a wonky "floating sleeve" design which is ugly to look at, but not noteable in any fashion. Possibly, it cools a little better 'cos it has a full water contact. The thing is that you can't bore out these things much, without compromising integrety.

The bottom end is solid and VERY nicely balanced (mine idles at 300rpm and is SILKY smooth), but I have my doubts as to how much compression/power you can slam through it before it rips the caps out of their threads.

ALL of the improvements for the bottom end that I can see would be from lighter, slightly higher compression pistons (custom).

The Top end is where the engine's strength/weakness lies.

It was designed for a mixture of strength and fuel economy. How do you do that? LOTS of torque, and low revs.

SO, the intake valves are pretty big, the exhaust valves are TINY, the intake ports are HUGE, and the exhaust ports are laughably small.

If ANYONE made a performance head for this thing, it'd RULE....

Anyhoo, gotta run!

Thanks for the imput, I'm that much smarter now. I like the idea of a 4.9 swap. I was stuck between this and a 3.8sc but I'm not big on going really fast, which is where the 4.9 comes in. If its a good streetlight motor thats what I was looking for.

About the beating things. I asked because I'm really interested in what may happen if I do roll up beside an f-body. Streetlight to streetlight I'm positive they don't have a chance but what happens on the open road?

Its not a dumb kid question, just an inquisitve mind.

LS1 F-body: 3500 lbs, 350 HP (Yes, they really are this strong)
4.9 Fiero: 2700 lbs, 200 HP

Do the math.
Even with a 4.9, an LS1 F-body will be a legitimate challenge from light to light.

I think PBJ said last week or so that his wife took a newer mustang on at a light at smoked it. Not sure though.
Hmmmmm...........

A little over a week ago when my wife was coming home from work (12:30 am) so there was no traffic. She came up on a late model mustang GT stopped at the red light, she was talking to me on the cell at the time. So the light goes green and the stang takes off, and Becky say "figgin, that guy wanted to race me and I was not even paying attention." anyways, they both get stopped at the next red, she sets the cell down while her and the stang guy do the look thing...The light goes green, I can here her take off with no wheel spin at all The 4.9 fiero took the late model stang all the way through first, she was just under 1 car lenght ahead, the fiero does the 1-2nd shift the stang's frt bumper creaped up to her mirror and all the way through second she regained here loss through the shift. BUT once the 4.9 fiero with the 125 auto trans did the 2-3 shift gain was lost and the stang pulled ahead. BUT then there was the next light. This time I (cell) was not set down but got to here the play by play. Again right off from stop untill 3rd gear the stang was put to shame. As it turns out in all the excitment she accidently turned the torque converter switch on which means as soon as the trans went into 3rd the torque converter went into lock up-not what you want when racing...So next time we will see what happens. The stang owner was grinning and shaking his head at the next light as Beck went right and he went left.

Pete

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PJB, thank you for your replies, you firmly set me on a 4.9

The only bad part about a 4.9 is locating a good one... I phoned to most of the junkyards in Calgary and I managed to find one engine that was way overpriced and the people wouldn't include the ecm or wireharness.

Would the border guards question me if I had an engine in the back of my truck returning from the states?

Thanks,
Levi

4.9 is amaizing

i think that i know a few people that might try to toy around with it a little

not mine (when i get it)

however

we'll see what happenes

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Steven Rossi
Forget about world peace... visualize using your turning signal.
Cover me. I'm changing lanes.
I couldn't fix your brakes, so I made your horn louder!
If the universe is expanding, why the hell can't I find a parking space?
Horn broke. Watch for finger!

You'll have to pay the taxes on the motor coming back, but no duty, as it's made in the USA

It was interesting to read the subject 4.5/4.9 which is better,which is faster and the debate goes on,when I had a 2.8 in mine it was a ok engine but still was not good enough so I took it out and was contemplating a swap.I looked at all posibilities that was available 305,350 400,3.8 and the easiest was the 4.9 needing no adapter or any special needs,so I got my self an engine and started to experiment and experiment I did.The fuel injection I could not nail it down and after many trials I scrapped the idea and went to a carbed set up after doing some mods the engine ran much better with the carb and in the stock form what it had to offer I accepted because of the low cost and the car gets on and will embarass a lot of cars on the road.
I took that motor and now have a much more radical motor in but I had to lay out $$$ to get it to what I now have,took the block out crank shaft,new rings and heads reworked especially more emphasis on the exhaust dual valve springs ,new cam by Delta Cams with a more agressive grind and after putting it together it went up great.
My intention was to have a car that would be respected on the road and now it is because I had to spend money to get any extra some timse it worked and sometime it didn't but it was a chance I was willing to take how much it cost I don't know too much but this is what I wanted.I can hold my own with just about any car out there and this is the joy I get to beat on a Mustang ,Camaro etc but it comes with a price so with a stock motor you will get good performance for your cash outlay but if you want to go faster you have to go a little deeper in the pocket.I will debut the car at next Daytona meet for all the doubters can see that the 4.9 can be made to run

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85 Fiero (Savage)
345-HP/5SP 4.9 Cadillac.
88 Cradle
11.2" Zettner Brakes
Custom Coilovers
Flowmaster 80's
Keith Dorton 500cfm Carb#0-8583
Edelbrock-70001 3stage NOS kit.
Mallory HY-FireIgnition

Awesome.. the 4.9 DOES have an aftermarket, somewhat.. whether it be custom built parts or whatever hehe

I'm having my 1994 4.9L rebuilt next week. He was supposed to start on it last week but, he's running behind he said. I'm also going to try and do my own mount's... Can I make the mount's out of fiberglass...??? If so I have it made...LMAO!!!

I'm also going with the Carb setup. Modded dist., etc...

Has anyone done a 4.x turbo setup...???
Turbo people.... Anyone??

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"Smooth Fiero GT's RULE!!"

SmoothFieroGT@Yahoo.com
4.9L V/8....Rebuild In Progress!!

[This message has been edited by Smoooooth GT (edited 07-04-2002).]

quote Originally posted by Wipe0ut: Awesome.. the 4.9 DOES have an aftermarket, somewhat.. whether it be custom built parts or whatever hehe

There's an outfit that rebuilds 4.9's to 5.0 litres and 300 HP for fitment in W-bodies. This guy has one, and gives a phone number: http://home.attbi.com/~thirddatadrive/

I had the website once, but can't find it now.

quote Originally posted by Smoooooth GT: Hmm, I had mine rebuilt because I thought that IT had 87,xxx mile's. What the average life of these motor's, mileage wise??

Keep in mind that all Caddys have the dash board warning for the owner to change oil so it is unlikely you will get a Caddy engine that hasn't had its' oil changed on time.
GM considers the Caddy engine to be the "premium V8" so it gets the better metallurgy. 250,000 miles?
The biggest concern is that it is an aluminum engine with a steel headgasket. But there is no warning indicator to have the driver change coolant every two years. With dissimilar metals and worn out anti-corrosion components in the coolant the headgasket is vulnerable.

Is there an 'Aftermarket' Heavy Duty tough as nail's Headgasket that I could use instead of the one's that came in the rebuild kit..???
Also, Are the figure's on that "Caddy Motor Page" Correct..???

Steve
Smooth GT

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"Smooth Fiero GT's RULE!!"

SmoothFieroGT@Yahoo.com
4.9L V/8....Rebuild In Progress!!

bump

the head-gasket only has steel rings around the cylinders.

the rest of the gasket is that synthetic plastic-fiber shizat....

I don't see the problem...

hmmmmmm there must be a reason caddy stopped making them.......

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84 Fiero Phantom GT :D
Vortec 4300 CPI 5 spd.
Best ET 14.4 @ 95 mph
Go'in turbo

quote Originally posted by vortecfiero: hmmmmmm there must be a reason caddy stopped making them.......

Just like anything else GM does, once they get it right the discontinue production (4.1 - 4.5 - 4.9L) Car companies need the vehicles to wear out and break so WE the public feel the need to go buy a new one. Just like the fiero-stop production after all the upgrades on the 88's. I am sure the N* had something to do with it too

Pete

Possibly 'cos DOHC motors are more en vogue?

think about it... how many $40k+ luxury cars still come with pushrod motors?

no i heard they had too many reliabilty/warrentie issues and just scrapped them instead of rebuilding them
like the twin cam v6
my step mother went through 3 alum v8s in one car untill she got a northstar. this car has over
300,000 km and still pulls like stint

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84 Fiero Phantom GT :D
Vortec 4300 CPI 5 spd.
Best ET 14.4 @ 95 mph
Go'in turbo

quote Originally posted by vortecfiero: no i heard they had too many reliabilty/warrentie issues and just scrapped them instead of rebuilding them like the twin cam v6

This is a 4.5 vs 4.9 thread. Don't get me started on your oil-burning, rod knocking, CPI plugging, 4.3 (that I own in my '99 Jimmy), that GM has replaced also, with a dual cam inline six. I don't mean to be very offensive. I'm sure you're happy with your engine swap just like I'm happy with mine.

quote Originally posted by vortecfiero: no i heard they had too many reliabilty/warrentie issues and just scrapped them instead of rebuilding them like the twin cam v6 my step mother went through 3 alum v8s in one car untill she got a northstar. this car has over 300,000 km and still pulls like stint

Actually, the 4.9 is easy as all hell to rebuild, if a little expensive.

You just replace the cylinder bores, and grind the crank to spec. whoopee!

The extensive warranty issues are actually with the northstar. Every cadillac tech I've ever spoke to curses the 4.6, saying the 4.9 is a far more refined and reliable motor.
the northstar has horrendous headbolt issues, coolant leakage problems, and a penchant for eating head-gaskets if the coolant is not changed RELIGIousLY every 2 years.

the 4.9 is a bullet-proof little item. but it's depressingly "low-tech" for the gadget filled cadillac line.

Maybe in a few years, the N* will be the engine the 4.9 was.

until then, go to any caddy dealer, and ask them what the best motor GM ever made was (besides the 502 )

This is somewhat related, but do you think there is any way a Vortec 4200 would fit in a Fiero?
Hehehe that would be one hell of a swap.