Ok, I canged the entire cooling system except the radiator. That includes water pump, Thermostat, Temp sending unit, Radiator cap. I jacked up the back of the car and burped the system. I unhooked both radiator hoses, put the garden hose in one end and water came out the other like it should. Even after all this, I take out the thermostat and run the engine and there is NO FLOW. I am stumped..... PLease help

Thanks

There is no flow WHERE? Fill it up, take off the thermostat cap, remove the thermostat. Start the car. Is there anyflow at the thermostat housing?(caution, it may flow all over the place!)

I am having the same problem with my car also but I have a camaro 3.1 in there. It ran hot full of h2o new waterpump but when I take the tstat cap off only a little flow is seen. Burped the entire system even the heater core but it is still doing it. My starter and alternator went out at the same time also. this thing is a real pain to figure out.

there is no flow at the thermostat cap or at the radiator, or at the heater valve.

Might be a water pump, if you have one that has a plastic impeller it might come loose from the drive shaft and turn just enough to make it look like its works. Happend to me.
Or worst case a bad head gasket, have a service place do a test for that.

Rick

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Rick

86GT
84COUP
http://home.mn.rr.com/gmfierogt

By the way speaking of water pumps with the plastic impeller...I've heard that someone makes one with a metal impeller and I would like to know which auto store carries it and the part number.

Auto Zones is metal. Been working well for me so far, although my friend overheated* my car about 2 days ago. Don't have a freaking clue how he did it, as I haven't been able to get it up past 220 no matter what I try.

*What sucks is he didn't notice and drove it all the way back to me, didn't get hot enough to boil off, but the needle was pegged at the top.

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^{The Black Beauty (85 GT) - Bustedato (86 SE, Parts car)
Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things
AOL IM: KSSouter
MSN IM: I_R_Sootah@hotmail.com}

Its not the water pump. It is brand new installed yesterday. With the metal impellar. Got from the local Parts store. Just told them that I wanted the aluminum Impellar and NOT the plastic one. No prob, they ordered it and it was there in 4 hours!!

thanks

Probably a stupid question, but you CAN see the belt spinning the water pump, right? I mean, it's not frozen... (yes, I know it's new, but some stuff just fails)

Vic

I wish you'd kept this as i thread instaed of opening a new one. Get your pm?

Thanks for the PM. I guess the belt is on right. And yes I can see the pulley move. Sorry MaryJane for not keeping 1 post

If some could list all the possible ways that would cause NO FLOW ANYWHERE I would very happy That way I could just go down the list.

thanks

only 2 reasons for no flow, water pump or stopped up somewhere. since you say pump is OK, theres something plugging up a hose somewhere or the radiator core itself is plugged up. try disconnecting lower radiator hose at radiator and pour water in top and see if the water pours out the bottom. if its ok try taking your garden hose and shoot water thru the in and out hoses at the engine end and see if it makes it out the front. Hoses can collapse inside and still look good from the outside.

So there is no real "Engine" problem that would cause no flow?(my engine sounds tip top)

Is this a 4 or a 6?

88 4cyl 2.5L with no Mods

Your coolant tubes didn't get smashed on a lift anywhere did they. You've described checking flow individually but not the whole system.

you need the thermostat in the car for it too cool.

Your not going to see flow, or much of it.
One way to see flow is to remove the upper radiator hose and see if its shooting water out.(upper radiator if thats the return hose), and this has to be done while the car is running and when it gets hot, the thermostat will open to allow flow.

you can also disconnect your heater hose, and see if anything is coming out of those.

I also agree with roger, (cause he loves britney), that your radiator can be clogged.

plus a blown headgasket, will cause you to overheat also. Common signs is bubbles in your radiator (exhaust gases/mixture)

[This message has been edited by fierospeeder (edited 04-07-2002).]

quote Originally posted by BigNickDog: 88 4cyl 2.5L with no Mods

I have found circulating problems in almost every 4 cylinder I have. It seems to be the same case in almost all the 87&88 dis engines. The same problem existed in about 60% in the prior years.
I solve the problem by leaving out the gasket for the pump. I make sure that both surfaces are flat (file if not) and coat one of them with a thin, but still solid bead of RTV. Then install the pump and hoses then refill the system. Excellent flow results with no cooling or flow problems.

Never heard of not using a gasket, but can't see why it would matter. If the pump is pumping.....water is going somewhere....period. When you pull the rad cap off do you see water circulating thru it? You should from the time you start the engine. If not.....something is clogged up between the engine and the radiator and it should be gushing water back out of the engine.

Phil

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GTDude
25 years GM experience

If I understand what Nick said in the original post, even with the thermostat cap off, system full of coolant, nothing is moving INSIDE the thermostat housing. With the car started & BOTH caps off, water should just pour out that thermostat housing
even if the radiator is plugged up. With the rad cap off, all the coolant that is in the output side of the rad tank, the water that is in the return piping is now free to be pulled into the pump & the pump should at least push that amt of water thru thethermostat hsng. Nick-unless they changed locations on the later years, the fan felay should be just in front of the left headlight actuator.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 04-07-2002).]

I HAVE checked the whole system including disconnecting the heater hose and runing the car. Only a Very little bit of water comes out one hose(the top hose)and sucks the water down about 3in on the other.(these are my heater core hoses) I can blow on either of these hoses and get water to flow from the other hose.

How can I check my radiator to see if it has crap stuck in it? Can I pull off both hoses on radiator, Then put the garden hose in one hole(seal it up with hose in there) then turn the water on real high to blow all the crap out??
Can a radiator get plugged up so bad you have no flow at all? And can it happen Just like that??

Thanks

Have you run a compression check? If you're getting steam, etc. in the water, it's starting to sound like a blown head gasket, but I'd still expect you to get more flow. You may have passages in the block plugged?

Leaving out the gasket when the water pump is installed would slightly decrease clearance between the back shell and the impeller. I'm not sure how much that would effect flow. This could be dependant on the specific impeller design....

The only way I can tell you for sure if the "steam" is just steam or combusion gas is to hold an exhaust gas analizer over the opening. (Just don't put the probe in the water.)

Even with a busted head or gasket you should have water moving.

Some of the passeges, especially between the block and head, are fairy small. It would not take much to block them off. If some large chunks of dirt broke loose in the cooling system it could block them.

The head bolts on the L4 are known to be weak. The exhaust side ones were part of the recall for all years but 88 but that doesn't mean 88 is imune to the problem. Typically the bolt between exhaust ports 2 & 3 actually breaks.

Fotunatly with an L4 you can yank the head with the intake and exhaust manifolds still on it. Makes it heavier but saves work. You would need new head gasket and bolts....

You could see if you can somehow seal the garden hose to the intake on the water pump and see how free the water flows thru the motor. (This is not an engine running test....) With the intake hose off you could try flushing water backwards thru the block as well. If it's a dirt problem that might clear it.

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11-Sept-01, The day the world as we knew it ended.

You can disconnect both hoses on your rad. Put the cap on the rad. Put the garden hose on where the lower rad hose went, leave the other (upper) connection open. You will need to put a rag or something around the garden hose to help seal it off. Turn the water on, slow at first. Water should now be flowing backwards thru your rad & coming out the upper connection. If you have steam showing up at your thermostat housing while the engine is running, that sounds like a bad hd gasket, but may be the eng is trying to run hot because of the lack of flow.
Back flush the rad as above, back flush the eng as Ogre said. connect the rad hoses back up, fill the system properly. Remove the thermostat & cap. YOU squeeze the hose leaving the thermostat housing, while someone else starts the car. At cold start, the high idle should provide plenty of rpms to the water pump. If you get no flow out the top of the thermostat housing, you have water pump problems, or the passages in the eng are totally plugged up. I've never seen passages that plugged up tho. You should get some flow. **Post back here***!!!! with results of flushing-watch to see how dirty the flush water is, it will give some indication of your system condition. We're tryin to help ya, don't leave us hangin
Here is a simplified drawing of how the cooling fan system works. I've left off the 2speed fan part, the a/c part of it, and the eng blower part to make it easier to read.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 04-07-2002).]

Anyone considered a crushed/blocked coolant line along the underside of the car? Disconnect the hoses from the engine, and try and run water through the cooling system while removing the engine from the loop.

Other than that, I would suspect that some thoughtless bastard sent you a bad water pump!

Of course, you MAY just have a blocked journal inside the motor... Try the reverse flush.

Yep Mach10, he said he checked the hard lines by running water hose and water flowed up to the radiator hose in front. He's getting no flow from pump to thermostat housing. It's a new pump.

Ok, Back flushed the engine, radiator, and hoses leading to and from. Pinched the return hose coming from the thermostat cap. Started the car, NO FLOW It does dribble ever so slightly.. so slow it is almost dripping.
So what now? Head Gasket? If so, is there a for-sure way to tell if it is bad??? But why would the head gasket cause my flow issue? what about the intake and exaust manifold? could those be the problem too?
I am looking for anything now. no matter how trivial.

Thanks

Nick, I'm sending you a pm, answer right back
Did the radiator seem to be clear, plenty of free flow while flushing? pm is sent.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 04-07-2002).]

quote Originally posted by theogre: Leaving out the gasket when the water pump is installed would slightly decrease clearance between the back shell and the impeller. I'm not sure how much that would effect flow. This could be dependant on the specific impeller design.... The only way I can tell you for sure if the "steam" is just steam or combusion gas is to hold an exhaust gas analizer over the opening. (Just don't put the probe in the water.) The head bolts on the L4 are known to be weak. The exhaust side ones were part of the recall for all years but 88 but that doesn't mean 88 is imune to the problem. Typically the bolt between exhaust ports 2 & 3 actually breaks.

Leaving the gasket out prevents the impeller of the water pump from captivating because of excessive spacing between the pump housing and the impeller. (metal impeller) Fierodaave had poor circulating problems too and he thought that I was crazy too. I went to his place to help him out and that included installing a water pump on a 2.5.
He now believes.

When you talk about steam, is this an immediate thing that you get at start-up (cold) or after it warms up some? Is the fluid level up to the neck of the stat housing?

Possibility(s) do exist for a bad head gasket or a cracked head.

Nick, IndyRestoGuy, others, I went out to my 84, pulled the thermostat cap & thermostat- pinched the hose off, had Jane start the car. I got drenched with anti-freeze, so I know the WP should push enough water to see flow. I've posted in Gen Fiero Chat, whoever solves this problem, I'll send them a $5bill. I still think the problem is in the impellor of the water pump. Wrong one, slipping on the shaft, or broken. Good luck.
The replacement engine on Nick's car came from a Pontiac 6000.
Don

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 04-07-2002).]

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Nick, IndyRestoGuy, others, I went out to my 84, pulled the thermostat cap & thermostat- pinched the hose off, had Jane start the car. I got drenched with anti-freeze, so I know the WP should push enough water to see flow. I've posted in Gen Fiero Chat, whoever solves this problem, I'll send them a $5bill. I still think the problem is in the impellor of the water pump. Wrong one, slipping on the shaft, or broken. Good luck. Do

Well, now, I guess we wait, right?

NOT A MECHANIC.

I read that the w/p in a SBC turns the opposite directions with a reg belt vs a serpentine. Does this apply here? Is the pump turning in the right direction to pump? I hate cooling problems!!!!

Gary

yep we wait.

MaryJane is right. It's the water pump. It has a plastic impeller which is slipping on the shaft.

Anyway, that what I think. It's not the first time I've heard about an overheating problem caused by a "new" pump. Need to get one with a steel impeller.

Robert

Damn, do I feel lucky. My 88' 2.5 has never had a problem. *@$%#@!, I just hexed myself... I gotta sacrifice a chicken to the Fiero gods. My car will burn up tomorrow if don't!

88Ironduke

quote Originally posted by westtexas: MaryJane is right. It's the water pump. It has a plastic impeller which is slipping on the shaft. Anyway, that what I think. It's not the first time I've heard about an overheating problem caused by a "new" pump. Need to get one with a steel impeller. Robert

I believe he said that he already has a new water pump with a metal impeller.
I'm guessing that it's just defective, or the wrong pump, probably from something other than a Fiero. The 84-86 Fiero 2.5 used V-belts instead of the serpentine belt, but the waterpump still turns clockwise, as viewed from the pulley end.

FWIW, I had to refill my 88 Duke when I replaced the tensioner. Was a *bear* to get all the air out of the system. Quite a bit more difficult than the V-6.
The pump is also mounted quite high in the system. There might be a big air bubble in the area surrounding the pump. If so, it's not gonna pump any water.

Good luck.

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Raydar

From the Department of Redundancy Department.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 04-07-2002).]

Are you getting a water pump for the Fiero or for what ever the engine used to be in? What was the former home for this engine (year model etc...)

[QUOTE]I believe he said that he already has a new water pump with a metal impeller.

My apolgies, I obviously just scanned the thread.

Good luck with finding the solution to your problem.

Robert