I see you all like the Fiero but don't like to keep Pontiac or GM parts in them. How do you race and win with a Chevy with a Ford 302 engine inside. How can you brag about beating anyone on the track with the same engine they have, but putting it into a different car. If you want to race a VW engine, should you not buy a GERMAN made car to race instead of trying to turn this GM (American made beauty) into a German car. The Fiero means "Proud", proud to be an American. I know the Germans made poor Tanks, and that's why they lost the war, so how patriotic can you get putting a German Engine into an American car. Then trying to race other cars with it. Your bragging rights aren't really there any more now are they. If I raced your Fiero and won, then later found out you used a VW engine, I would laugh in your Face!! You all need to stay with a GM engine, just so you can be proud of what you are, an American(Sorry to the Canadian guys) you're still considered Americans(North Americans). My Fiero will always remain GM parts only, it's only natural. Now if you are looking to stay GM maybe you might want to look into getting a European GM engine, like the one found in the OPEL Speedster (the car I think is the NEW Fiero) This car is a GM produced mid-engine car with composit panels just like the Fiero. It has a GETRAG transmission and aluminium engine and 0 to 60MPH in under 6 seconds. We need to get this shipped over from the GM plant in Europe. This I would accept because it is still a GM product. You all must check this ECOTEC engine out. I might consider bringing a Speedster to America and rebadge it a Fiero just to piss off the GM executives trying to sell the New Fiero only in Europe. http://www.speedster.opel.com/specs/engine/index.html

[This message has been edited by Castlebuilt (edited 02-04-2002).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Castlebuilt:
[B]I see you all like the Fiero but don't like to keep Pontiac or GM parts in them. How do you race and win with a Chevy with a Ford 302 engine inside. How can you brag about beating anyone on the track with the same engine they have, but putting it into a different car. If you want to race a VW engine, should you not buy a GERMAN made car to race instead of trying to turn this GM (American made beauty) into a German car. The Fiero means "Proud", proud to be an American. I know the Germans made poor Tanks, and that's why they lost the war, so how patriotic can you get putting a German Engine into an American car. Then trying to race other cars with it. Your bragging rights aren't really there any more now are they. If I raced your Fiero and won, then later found out you used a VW engine, I would laugh in your Face!! You all need to stay with a GM engine, just so you can be proud of what you are, an American(Sorry to the Canadian guys) you're still considered Americans(North Americans). My Fiero will always remain GM parts only, it's only natural. Now if you are looking to stay GM maybe you might want to look into getting a European GM engine, like the one found in the OPEL Speedster (the car I think is the NEW Fiero) This car is a GM produced mid-engine car with composit panels just like the Fiero. It has a GETRAG transmission and aluminium engine and 0 to 60MPH in under 6 seconds. We need to get this shipped over from the GM plant in Europe. This I would accept because it is still a GM product. You all must check this ECOTEC engine out. I might consider bringing a Speedster to America and rebadge it a Fiero just to piss off the GM executives trying to sell the New Fiero only in Europe.

Dude three words for you.............

I AM CANADIAN!!!

I am not american nor do I want to be one I am very very very very proud to be a Canadian!!!!!!!!!!!! For me to put an "german" engine in a "american" car has nothing to do with anything about what you ar saying!!!! I really don't care about that stuff you were saying that we are North Americam! whatever! Seriously we are not the same people. Voted the #1 country to live in 7 years in a row! The US never got above 4th. We have public health.... uhhhhhhgggggggg

We are not the same.... I don't even know were to begin, That is such a ignorant thng to say!!!!!!!!!

Sorry about the flame, but don't go there, this isn't even an american site for your so called "american" loved car! Grow up.

I don't even know where to begin...

Sorry guys, this is NOT the kind of BS that americans actually belive...

I know, how about I put the engine from a Pontiac Vibe in my Fiero? D'oh! The world is a BIG place, obviously far bigger than your redneck pea-brain can comprehend.

Deal.

Best!
Ben.

------------------

Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

[QUOTE]Originally posted by artherd:
[B]I don't even know where to begin...

Sorry guys, this is NOT the kind of BS that americans actually belive...

I know, how about I put the engine from a Pontiac Vibe in my Fiero? D'oh! The world is a BIG place, obviously far bigger than your redneck pea-brain can comprehend.

Deal.

Best!
Ben.

Thank you very much Ben, I am very very sorry (typical Canadian) for flaming like that but I was a bit upset.

Thank you for understanding! Hey maybe will gets some beers go play hockey later eh?

Dude three words for you.............

I AM CANADIAN!!!

I am not american nor do I want to be one I am very very very very proud to be a Canadian!!!!!!!!!!!! For me to put an "german" engine in a "american" car has nothing to do with anything about what you ar saying!!!! I really don't care about that stuff you were saying that we are North Americam! whatever! Seriously we are not the same people. Voted the #1 country to live in 7 years in a row! The US never got above 4th. We have public health.... uhhhhhhgggggggg

We are not the same.... I don't even know were to begin, That is such a ignorant thng to say!!!!!!!!!

Sorry about the flame, but don't go there, this isn't even an american site for your so called "american" loved car! Grow up.

[/B][/QUOTE]

I never said anything bad about Canada! If you read my post again I never burned Canada or your SAAB engine post. Your the one that just burned America here. I'm proud to be an American even if we did not reach your #1 status. I've been to your hospitals, and I'm not impressed. I had to wait in the emergency room for way too long, then the Doctor came in and she was wearing sandles. There was no rush to help anyone beacause they get paid the same and there is no insentive to be the best doctor in town. So you think we are not the same people? You say you don't want to be an American, well guess what you are! You might not be a citizen of the USA, but you are an American by any standards. If you lived in South Africa, but you are white in skin color, are you not still an African? You might want to say your #1 country doesn't have Native American Indians either. What do you mean this isn't an American forum, this is the Fiero Forum, the Fiero is an American car, so there for it was started by an American Fiero owner and enthusiest. This isn't a European Car forum. My post said sorry to you Candian guys beacause this is an American made car, but I know Canadians own them, what cars are made in Canada? I like Canadians, everone that I've met were very cool to be around, you are a very laid back nation, great attitudes. So please don't try to make my post out to be something it wasn't. I can only hope Canada can recoupe from losing David Spade.

Is it just me, or does castlebuilt sound like rayB all over again?

Time to check IPs, Cliff.

quote Originally posted by Castlebuilt: I see you all like the Fiero but don't like to keep Pontiac or GM parts in them. How do you race and win with a Chevy with a Ford 302 engine inside. How can you brag about beating anyone on the track with the same engine they have, but putting it into a different car. If you want to race a VW engine, should you not buy a GERMAN made car to race instead of trying to turn this GM (American made beauty) into a German car. The Fiero means "Proud", proud to be an American. I know the Germans made poor Tanks, and that's why they lost the war, so how patriotic can you get putting a German Engine into an American car. Then trying to race other cars with it. Your bragging rights aren't really there any more now are they. If I raced your Fiero and won, then later found out you used a VW engine, I would laugh in your Face!! You all need to stay with a GM engine, just so you can be proud of what you are, an American(Sorry to the Canadian guys) you're still considered Americans(North Americans). My Fiero will always remain GM parts only, it's only natural. Now if you are looking to stay GM maybe you might want to look into getting a European GM engine, like the one found in the OPEL Speedster (the car I think is the NEW Fiero) This car is a GM produced mid-engine car with composit panels just like the Fiero. It has a GETRAG transmission and aluminium engine and 0 to 60MPH in under 6 seconds. We need to get this shipped over from the GM plant in Europe. This I would accept because it is still a GM product. You all must check this ECOTEC engine out. I might consider bringing a Speedster to America and rebadge it a Fiero just to piss off the GM executives trying to sell the New Fiero only in Europe.

I have to disagree with you on several points:
Open you mind. Like parachutes, minds function better when open. Check out www.hybridz.org for an example of how to do this.

Pay attention in history class. The Sherman tank, while decent in its own right, was a piece of $h!t compared to the German Tiger. It routinely took 5-6 Shermans to subdue one Tiger. The Germans lost because they ran out of Tigers (and U-boats and Messerschmidts and...) before we ran out of Shermans.

Patriotism is well and good. I'm an officer in the Navy; I certainly support US interests. However, the kind of nationalistic and prejudicial rhetoric you're spouting is exactly what brought about WWII.

I like the idea of the Fiero: an affordable mid-engined car. However, it never fulfilled its potential from the factory. That's why mine has a V8 and will shortly be getting some of the most radical suspension work ever done to a stock bodied Fiero. The concept is there, the details are lacking.

And what if I want to put in a 20V VW/Audi engine, or a VR6, or a turbo B18C5, or a 4AGZE, or a Yamaha engine from a Ford SHO Taurus? The dyno will read the same. Horsepower knows no nationality.

Why should I want to brag about race results anyway? They speak for themselves. Why do bragging rights not exist for hybrid cars? Not that I brag. As I said, results speak for themselves. And unless you have a heavy hitting V8, you're not likely to beat en exotic hybrid Fiero anyway, as anyone who goes to the trouble of doing a cross-manufacturer swap is going to have a pretty stout engine built for the task.

"Fiero" may mean "proud", but don't forget that it's taken from the Italian language. How un-American!

Getrag is a German company BTW.

If your Fiero will always be GM parts only, I guess you'll never have Wilwood brakes.

Is it blasphemous to put a Chevy V8 or Cadillac Northstar into a '32 Ford street rod?

[/b][/QUOTE]

I never said anything bad about Canada! If you read my post again I never burned Canada or your SAAB engine post. Your the one that just burned America here. I'm proud to be an American even if we did not reach your #1 status. I've been to your hospitals, and I'm not impressed. I had to wait in the emergency room for way too long, then the Doctor came in and she was wearing sandles. There was no rush to help anyone beacause they get paid the same and there is no insentive to be the best doctor in town. So you think we are not the same people? You say you don't want to be an American, well guess what you are! You might not be a citizen of the USA, but you are an American by any standards. If you lived in South Africa, but you are white in skin color, are you not still an African? You might want to say your #1 country doesn't have Native American Indians either. What do you mean this isn't an American forum, this is the Fiero Forum, the Fiero is an American car, so there for it was started by an American Fiero owner and enthusiest. This isn't a European Car forum. My post said sorry to you Candian guys beacause this is an American made car, but I know Canadians own them, what cars are made in Canada? I like Canadians, everone that I've met were very cool to be around, you are a very laid back nation, great attitudes. So please don't try to make my post out to be something it wasn't. I can only hope Canada can recoupe from losing David Spade. [/B][/QUOTE]

Really buddy you have issues to sort out on your on there, that I really don not want to get into. Candians are Americans?! What the hell is that?! This is really not even worth my time to argue. You haven't the intellectual capicity to understand what you're a saying let alone my argument against you. Cliff Pennock is from Haarlem, The Netherlands, Not the good ol US of A. But I suppose it's all the same to you isn't it... you know USA the rest of the worlds they will all eventually become or are Ahmerican, right!

And BTW the falgs at the top there are not for decoration only you boob, they are to symbolize the international love for the Fiero... Not the US of A. Really you should get out of your trailer park and see the rest of the world every once and while.

[This message has been edited by dourain86gt (edited 02-04-2002).]

[This message has been edited by dourain86gt (edited 02-04-2002).]

The whole point I was trying to make is that when it comes to what powers a car, you should try to upgrade your engine, or swap to the same manufacturer's selection of power plants. The brakes have nothing to do with what we are talking about. When you win a race everyone wants you to pop the hood to see the power plant, they don't ask you to take off the driver's wheel to see what had stopped your fast car! I don't need no stupid history lessons on the the Sherman or the Tiger tanks. I used the tank reference out of sillyness, not as an actual fact. I'm not here to match wits, or say my knowledge is larger and more vast, just here to voice my opinion. It seems like this forum is full of intellect matchers and intellect bashers. My brain is bigger than your brain rhetoric is rampant in this forum. You sound like you have Brain envy, like the movie Defending Your Life. "..he uses 70% of his brain, you only use 8%..."
I am the kind of guy who would want to beat someone racing with a GM engine in a GM car. I'm not trying to say your stupid or Canadians suck, or The United States of America is better. I'm just voicing my opinion on the fact that you some of you out there want a Volkswagon engine in a Fiero (Pontiac).

I do not live in a trailer, and if I did what does that mean about me in your mind, are you judging peoples' brain size to what kind of house they live in, or by what color their neck is? I'm not racist or believe I'm better than any of you. I've not once disparage your intelligence, nor have I tried to burn you in anyway. I just state my feelings and of course I'm have seen, you all take it the wrong way. I said I'm sorry in my first post to let you know I'm just posting my opinion to let you know what I think about the engine source you are talking about. The reason I did this is to let you all know that I'm a Die hard Fiero enthusiast, and I believe in keeping the Fiero alive as long as possible, and to bring the Fiero to higher standards. If you are going to make your Fiero prettier, then do it because you want the Fiero to look its best. If you are going to make your Fiero faster, then for prosperity sake keep it GM. I respect all your opinions and try not to bash your character or threaten anyone in anyway.

So stop trying to attack every post I send and just answer the question at hand, does the Volkswagon engine belong in a Fiero? My answer will always be NO, can it be done, of course, but why. Is the speed this engine might give you, worth all the headaches, and problems and ridicule that will occur during this process?

You right, why did they use an Italian word to name this car the Fiero? This is a USA made car that is love world wide. I use the USA because American Made is not up to your standards. On my globe it shows The United States of America is located in the Northern part of a continent called the Americas , which include the North and South America. So when I say you're an American just like the rest of us, then you can see what I mean. Canadians and USA citizens are American by this standard, but we all like to say proud to be an American. I guess the term American now and forever in your head means the USA. When we send up our men into space the side of our shuttle does not say America on it, it says U.S.A. Three little letters that says who we are. We haven't always been the best country, far from it, but we are FREE to voice our opinions on forums like this. I hope some day we can sit down and share a Molson one day. I love Canadians

[This message has been edited by Castlebuilt (edited 02-05-2002).]

Yeah maybe one day we could, but I drink Labatt .

I do agree that this went right out of hand. The only reason why I would even try to put a VW engine a fiero is a for a number of reasons:

1) It a big engine in a very small package. It would be easier to fit a fiero. In my opion, (humble) V8 do not belong in that bay or even V6 for that matter. The bay was designed for a four banger unfourtunaly. If the engine were vertically mounted instead horizontaly v engines would be alot easier.

2) it is a great engine 1.8L turbo, can produce up to 300 hp easily (and cheaply), It fits the personality of the car. The reason I say that is because well as much as I hate to admit it the fiero is a sort of a knock off of a certain italian car, and well this engine would complete the european flavour. You don't put spicy bar-b-q sauce on top of a capacino. You know?

3)There are alot of these engines around as VW seems to be using it in every car now.

4) I plan on putting the Finale package on my car one day and it is a very exotic looking package, and I thought it deserve some sort of exoctic type engine, you small 5v per cylinder, turbo, blah, blah, blah.

Any way I think I will be leaning towards the Saab engine now, because of some research I have been attempting it migh be a heck of a lot easier. They have an engine which is a four cylinder High Output Turbo! Or HOT, this engine produces 250 hp! And Ithink that Saab has Gertrag six speed. But I could be wrong eathier way it sounds like the 2.2L that they have in there cavalier/sunfire cars but just a whole lot meaner! Well If you could help with that I would be in your debt. Thanks.

I think I just discovered the engine that would make the coolest V8 Fiero swap. The VW W8, yes W. Because it has a W configuration, or a 'double V'. It has the length of a 4 cylinder, and is narrower than a 90 degree V8, but just a little wider than a 60 degree V6. Now if I only had a few bucks.....

quote Originally posted by Castlebuilt: The whole point I was trying to make is that when it comes to what powers a car, you should try to upgrade your engine, or swap to the same manufacturer's selection of power plants. The brakes have nothing to do with what we are talking about. When you win a race everyone wants you to pop the hood to see the power plant, they don't ask you to take off the driver's wheel to see what had stopped your fast car! I don't need no stupid history lessons on the the Sherman or the Tiger tanks. I used the tank reference out of sillyness, not as an actual fact. I'm not here to match wits, or say my knowledge is larger and more vast, just here to voice my opinion. It seems like this forum is full of intellect matchers and intellect bashers. My brain is bigger than your brain rhetoric is rampant in this forum. You sound like you have Brain envy, like the movie Defending Your Life. "..he uses 70% of his brain, you only use 8%..." I am the kind of guy who would want to beat someone racing with a GM engine in a GM car. I'm not trying to say your stupid or Canadians suck, or The United States of America is better. I'm just voicing my opinion on the fact that you some of you out there want a Volkswagon engine in a Fiero (Pontiac). I do not live in a trailer, and if I did what does that mean about me in your mind, are you judging peoples' brain size to what kind of house they live in, or by what color their neck is? I'm not racist or believe I'm better than any of you. I've not once disparage your intelligence, nor have I tried to burn you in anyway. I just state my feelings and of course I'm have seen, you all take it the wrong way. I said I'm sorry in my first post to let you know I'm just posting my opinion to let you know what I think about the engine source you are talking about. The reason I did this is to let you all know that I'm a Die hard Fiero enthusiast, and I believe in keeping the Fiero alive as long as possible, and to bring the Fiero to higher standards. If you are going to make your Fiero prettier, then do it because you want the Fiero to look its best. If you are going to make your Fiero faster, then for prosperity sake keep it GM. I respect all your opinions and try not to bash your character or threaten anyone in anyway. So stop trying to attack every post I send and just answer the question at hand, does the Volkswagon engine belong in a Fiero? My answer will always be NO, can it be done, of course, but why. Is the speed this engine might give you, worth all the headaches, and problems and ridicule that will occur during this process? You right, why did they use an Italian word to name this car the Fiero? This is a USA made car that is love world wide. I use the USA because American Made is not up to your standards. On my globe it shows The United States of America is located in the Northern part of a continent called the Americas , which include the North and South America. So when I say you're an American just like the rest of us, then you can see what I mean. Canadians and USA citizens are American by this standard, but we all like to say proud to be an American. I guess the term American now and forever in your head means the USA. When we send up our men into space the side of our shuttle does not say America on it, it says U.S.A. Three little letters that says who we are. We haven't always been the best country, far from it, but we are FREE to voice our opinions on forums like this. I hope some day we can sit down and share a Molson one day. I love Canadians [This message has been edited by Castlebuilt (edited 02-05-2002).]

Dude, go back and reread your first post on this thread. Maybe you came across a bit strongly? If you have an opinion, state it. But don't harangue us with it.

No comment.

Actually, I'd be all the more impressed if someone popped the decklid on a Fiero and I saw a 1.8t sitting in there.

Everybody does v8's, 3.4, 3800, etc. The instructions for swapping them are easily obtainable over the web, and anyone who's even just getting into the Fiero community probably knows someone who has done one of those swaps.

For someone to do a 1.8t swap, or b18c, or 3sgte, or anything like that would be one heck of an achievment.

------------------

1988 Quad 4 Coupe 5 speed
1986 GT 5 speed, 1984 SC Auto
AOL: LastMinuteBastrd AIM: SavedbyJebus

I love the Turbo SAAB engine swap idea. I drive a 9000 Saab turbo. The engine is bullet proof, LOVES to rev, and sounds really good. I'm sure its easy to tweak the stock engine up to 250HP, its about 200 from the factory.

Just eyeballing the engine compartments (Saab VS fiero) I know it would "fit". The Saab engine is about the same size as my duke, but less clustered .

They still use this engine is some new Saabs, so finding a donor would be easy enough. I have no idea about the transmission. I would be willing to bet they don't "bolt up".

Good luck to anyone trying to do this. I might try it when the body rusts away on my Saab. I'm sure the engine will still be running though!

Well good luck with your swap, when finished we should race, just for shits and giggles. There is a great track in Daytona
Sorry my post sounded strong, I usually reply to these when I'm real tired and I'm going to bed.

Normally I wouldn't bother posting in this thead, but I just had to say that I was laughing so hard that tears were running down my face.

quote Originally posted by Master_Sushi: I love the Turbo SAAB engine swap idea. I drive a 9000 Saab turbo. The engine is bullet proof, LOVES to rev, and sounds really good. I'm sure its easy to tweak the stock engine up to 250HP, its about 200 from the factory. Just eyeballing the engine compartments (Saab VS fiero) I know it would "fit". The Saab engine is about the same size as my duke, but less clustered . They still use this engine is some new Saabs, so finding a donor would be easy enough. I have no idea about the transmission. I would be willing to bet they don't "bolt up". Good luck to anyone trying to do this. I might try it when the body rusts away on my Saab. I'm sure the engine will still be running though!

More info on your engine please Turbo V6? is it? I know the 2.2l t is a four banger I was thiking the six, but the HOT 4 banger comes on the new saabs with I think it was 295hp I could ve wrong, but I like the turbo Idea from the saab alot. I think this would be most feasable in a new type of swap. Both cars are GM and the saab is fron wheel drive. I think this could be easier to do the some of the other swaps.like the northstar, It wouldn't have to be shoehorned in.

Is the engine in that Opel speedster the same ecotech engine[140hp] as in the new GMs? Also I look up fiero in my wife's Italian/English dictionary and its not in there and proud translates into orgoglioso. I always thought
fiero was a made up name like camaro or achieva?

quote Originally posted by dourain86gt: More info on your engine please Turbo V6? is it? I know the 2.2l t is a four banger I was thiking the six, but the HOT 4 banger comes on the new saabs with I think it was 295hp I could ve wrong, but I like the turbo Idea from the saab alot. I think this would be most feasable in a new type of swap. Both cars are GM and the saab is fron wheel drive. I think this could be easier to do the some of the other swaps.like the northstar, It wouldn't have to be shoehorned in.

It's a turbo turbo inline four. I don't know a whole lot on the history of saab engines. I know they have used this one for a long time now (since mid 80's). It came in N/A and turbo versions, also DIS and distributor fired too. They are known for great reliability. The one in the 87 I drive has almost 200k miles now, stock turbo, stock everything! I "think" its a 2.0 liter, but I have seen some that were 2.3, they might have changed over the years.

For the size of the engine, it pulls the 3500+ pound car around really well. I have read stock 0-60 times were well under 8 seconds with the 5 speed. In a fiero it would be a screamer.

I'll scan in the page from the manual tonight and post it here. It just lists the basic specks, but still might have some info.

quote Originally posted by Master_Sushi: It's a turbo turbo inline four. I don't know a whole lot on the history of saab engines. I know they have used this one for a long time now (since mid 80's). It came in N/A and turbo versions, also DIS and distributor fired too. They are known for great reliability. The one in the 87 I drive has almost 200k miles now, stock turbo, stock everything! I "think" its a 2.0 liter, but I have seen some that were 2.3, they might have changed over the years. For the size of the engine, it pulls the 3500+ pound car around really well. I have read stock 0-60 times were well under 8 seconds with the 5 speed. In a fiero it would be a screamer. I'll scan in the page from the manual tonight and post it here. It just lists the basic specks, but still might have some info.

Thanks any info would be great!

quote Originally posted by dourain86gt: Could I ask why?

It wasn't because you wanted to use the VW engine. Although I think you got the idea from all they hype in their advertising, I don't think anyone's stupid for trying something new.

quote Originally posted by Pontiaddict: ...I think you got the idea from all they hype in their advertising, I don't think anyone's stupid for trying something new.

I don't think wanting the single most tunable engine available currently (not including old crate motors) means someone fell into 150hp advertising hype.

The engine is easilly capable of over $350HP, as a reliable daily driver. For more race-involved applications, it has been tuned to over 450HP, even 600HP...if you include the 2.0 variant.

"turbonium" lives, and it has nothing to do with a 150hp detuned Beetle.