i sure am. my next 2 grand is going towards a V8. it's what i should've done in the first place. to all you people that are asking about how to get more HP out of your v6???? you're not. just give up and buy THE V8 KIT and make life easier on yourself. stop nitpicking at a has been motor and take it out. stupid V6. yeah, it was better than the 4cyl but really....how hard was that to do?? come on, get a life.
I just put 2 grand into my 2.8 and I am very happy. It runs so much stronger than before, I love it. Plus when I pop the deck lid I get to see the shiney red engine with "Fiero" on the intake plenum. Its just my personal preference, but I like having the original engine... especially in a car that is soon to be rare and very collectable.
BTW i'm not done yet. to all you V8 guys out there, WAY TO GO !! way to have the intelligence and the funding to build a true "hot rod" out of a fine car. i mean, these V8 Fieros are blowing away the new vettes and firebirds. that's real competition. not any of this " i got beat by a VW Passat full of kids" crap. factory anything sucks, that's all there is to it. if that V6 was worth a crap then they would still be making the car as we speak. it's not because sales were threatened from this or that or blah blah blah. it was because the V6 can't hang. that's why good people like archie invented the V8 kit. to put the engine in there that you want and need. GM wouldn't do it. safety, weight, driveability: who gives a **** . I WANT SPEED!!! and i know how to get it.
rare and collectable?? not in my lifetime. when's the last time you can see a row of "rare and collectable" cars in a row for 100-300 bucks apiece like on ebay. did you ever see corvettes like this?? howabout DeLoreans?? have you ever seen an ad for a DeLorean parts car for 50 bucks?? personally i would like to open my decklid and see EIGHT CYLINDERS OF RAW UNTAMED HORSEPOWER ready to burn down every set of tires i can afford. i want to try to take off without spinning out. why do you see so many topics starting out " My car chirped second gear today" BIG FREAKIN' DEAL!!!! it's because these stupid engines can't even begin to do a burnout. have you ever seen a factory Fiero at a drag strip. do you know how a factory Fiero gets classified at a dragstrip?? it's freakin embarassing. you get classified in the rear wheel domestic class. Yeah buddy, guess who your competition is. you bet. Mustang, Vette, Firebird, Grand National and you better believe you're gonna get your ass kicked GOOD and proper. thank god my transmission went out before i joined in the torture. screw the V6.
[This message has been edited by 80's BOY (edited 12-04-2001).]
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04:27 PM
jelly2m8 Member
Posts: 6303 From: Nova Scotia, Canada Registered: Jul 2001
I sure was! Junked the puppy for a Northstar. GM made a real ferrari-killer, there's just some assembley required
Best! Ben.
------------------ Ben Cannon 88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives" 88 Formula, Northstar, Silver -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"
Are you refering to the stock 2.8? If so, then I can't totally disagree. If you are refering to anything other than a V8, you are so very wrong it's amazing.
BTW, dollar to dollar, you won't beat a V6 in these cars with a V8. If you want to spend the extra dollars on the novelty of a V8 Fiero, go for. That rock. But if you want bang for the buck, learn the V6, learn power adders, and rock and roll... If you don't believe me, ask 1fst2m6.
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04:55 PM
FieroPerformance Member
Posts: 435 From: Cincinnati, OH, USA Registered: Feb 2001
Just for the record you contradicted yourself at least once in your rant.
"new vettes and firebirds. that's real competition" It is rare to find someone that will modify a brand new corvette. However, according to you, "factory anything sucks, that's all there is to it."
Not everyone buys a car to drive around ruining tires and racing $50,000 sports cars. Who cares if you are faster than a new corvette, I would much rather have a new vette than a V8 Fiero.
If the downfall of Fieros was caused by the lack of a V8, then why did they sell so many 4 cylinders in 1984? Also, look at the top selling cars in the past 15 years, I bet non of them have V8s.
No I've never seen a corvette worth anything for sale for $300... However, I've never seen a Fiero worth anything for sale for $300. You can buy a pile of **** for any price. Its the nice (and I mean nice) Fieros that I am talking about.
[This message has been edited by FieroPerformance (edited 12-04-2001).]
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05:09 PM
lou_dias Member
Posts: 5390 From: Warwick, RI Registered: Jun 2000
I don't know about you but blocking off my cracked egr valve and intake and my stock v6 88 feels as fast as my highly modded 3.4 with working EGR. Can't wait to diable the EGR on that sucker.
the hp gains on disabling the EGR seem to improve over time...atleast on my car...
that's a free power adder... oh and it's got 105k miles on it now and the 3.4 had 25k...
Well, this is quite an unusual topic. Yeah, I've thrown a lot of cash into my car over the past 7 years... so what? Not all of it was specifically for the engine. And IF I had all that money at one time, I'd have probably gone straight to a V8 too. But a Fiero is a budget vehicle/racer. NOT a Corvette, not a Camaro, and definitely not a Euro-exotic (Ferrari/Lambo/etc).
So if you want the power of a V8... spend the money for it- an' quit your ranting.
I'm fairly happy with my V6... it's quick, it's loud, it's got some torque. I too am starting to line up a V8 for a conversion. But that doesn't mean that if an issue happens with my V6 that I'm going to scrap the whole car until I can do a V8. I'd suggest that you relax just a bit (you're bound to give yourself a coronary) and be patient. Many of the "top show cars" that you see on the forum have evolved over long peroids of time.
Patience is a virtue... even when it comes to modifying your car!
------------------
[This message has been edited by MinnGreenGT (edited 12-04-2001).]
i'll agree that if you had a nice collection of fieros, one of every year with 2 miles on each of them then yes, there would be lots of value to that collection....as a group. like 4 out of 5 chairs in a limited collection on "antiques roadshow" isn't worth as much as all in the set, and only one is worth crap. Fieros collectors may be out there....but true collectors are few and far between.
who am I?? i am one of the only people to successfully build a complete Targa assembly for an 85 GT. I am also the guy who has been screwing with this car for the last 3 years trying to wring horsepower out of it without adding a turbo or NOS to my work and problems. i have a flawless 3.1 stroker with tons of mods that won't get below 14.5 secs. without nitrous or other add-ons.
why do they make aftermarket exhaust systems for the 2001 Corvettes and Firebirds?? why do people buy K+N Filters?? Why do people buy aftermarket wheels and tires?? why is there an "aftermarket" at all for GM vehices?? ask yourself these questions FP. everything gets modified. EVERYTHING. i was talking to a guy the other day with a Borla system for his new vette. sounds much better than the factory one, and performs better too. there's your answer.
Much love to 1FST2M6. I still don't know how he turns out the numbers he does but that guy knows his stuff.
why did GM sell so many Fieros the first year?? because it was a fad. also because the car was fun to drive. there's NOTHING wrong with the car itself, it's the lack of power that hurts. why are so many PT Cruisers out there?? it's a fad. people like the attention. they are just as slow.
i catch myself wondering why i should even bother doing an engine swap that the parts TO CONNECT THE DAMN ENGINE ALONE ARE $1000. hell you can put 12 kinds of engines in a Camaro and all you need is minor changes to the tranny and engine mounts. Fieros?? you've gotta PULL THE STUPID CRADLE!!!! whoever heard of that design anyway. hell i'm so close to ripping out the gas tank and mounting a drive shaft it's not even funny. tub out the back and put a fuel cell in the trunk. that's what i'm talkin about.
but really....if YOU had to pull the cradle again and this was YOUR weekend toy, what would YOU do????
[This message has been edited by 80's BOY (edited 12-04-2001).]
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05:51 PM
DRH Member
Posts: 2683 From: Onalaska, WI, USA Registered: Dec 1999
Why are there borla exhausts for Corvette's? Most likely as replacments for worn out stock exhausts. The new Z06 comes with an exhaust much better than any aftermarket that you could find. K&N air filters are a joke, the drop in your 1/4 won't be any more than it would if you went on a diet and lost a few pounds.
Btw, your engine isn't exactly stock if it is modded and a 3.1 now is it?
Check out BlackStang's thread about CoolBlueGT - someone said that he would pay more than the sticker price on a brand new 87 GT to get his. That isn't a package, cars do not come in packages... Maybe if you were selling a collection of matchbox cars, not real cars.
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06:45 PM
G-Nasty Member
Posts: 2099 From: woodlands,TX,USA Registered: Jan 2001
There is never enough power with the 6. It lacks mid range more than anything else. Quick off the line with a 5 speed but still wont keep up mids of a 5.0 Mustang (5 spd). I still beat most trucks and eclipses- but the money I spent should have gone to an all aluminum LT1. I havent tried that backwoods EGR valve block off thing but thats next- OUT>
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07:45 PM
jelly2m8 Member
Posts: 6303 From: Nova Scotia, Canada Registered: Jul 2001
80's boy, My little brother's got a 98TA 6 speed, loaded. it does 12.92 on Nitto tires, exhaust cut out and the free air mod. That's not alot of $$$ in mods but what you don't know is that his he's had his pushrods replaced (they bend alot on LS1's), clutch, transmission had a factory defect so that was worked on and now I hear ticking...probably a lifter. It's got 58k miles on it. Good thing for those extended service plans. Oh, ever try replacing the plugs on those...100k miles my ass. It costs $300 to have the plugs replace, BTW. Oh, my Fiero handles better and is more fun but it didn't cost me $28000.
Almost forgot that the speakers can't handle the factory 500watt stereo so some of those have been replace a couple of times.
80's BOY Step back and take a breath, I know what your going through, and it is very frustrating. But you need to relax just a bit. You need to go back and read some of these posts again, MinnGreenGT said it like it really is.
quote
Originally posted by MinnGreenGT: Many of the "top show cars" that you see on the forum have evolved over long periods of time.
Patience is a virtue... even when it comes to modifying your car!
Jelly2m8 told you to sell your Fiero and buy an F-body. I don't think he read "into" your post. What I get out of it is you really love your Fiero and you just want to make it do, what you think it should do. I think a V8 is a very good and worthwhile choice, but unless you are ready to give Archie a call and write him a check, it's not going to happen tomorrow. So take tesmith66's advice and stick with the decaf, until you get your project underway. Stay with it and you won't be sorry. Good luck in your project, hope to see it on the site soon, but slow down a bit or you'll never make it.
Bob...85 GT ZZ4
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10:52 PM
PFF
System Bot
LoW_KeY Member
Posts: 8081 From: Hastings, MI Registered: Oct 2001
Hmm I think the V6 is hella quick for me.. my friend was getting a 14.2 out of his mild rebuild.
After mine I plan on getting mid 13's but thats it afterwards I still want good gas mileage, sure a V8 would be nice, but that can wait til I get my life some what situated
------------------ AIM: FierFormula88
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10:58 PM
maninblack Member
Posts: 140 From: Vancouver,BC,Canada Registered: Aug 2000
hey 80's boy,do whatever you like and stop trashing other people's car.Do whatever you want your fiero,if you want to share it with others,fine, but if you start trashing other people's choice,please go somewhere else.
jelly, you DON'T have to listen....it was your choice to log on, read, and even reply to my statements at all.
maninblack, where did i "trash" anyone's car?? i am trashing the v6 in general as the choice in a powerplant to try and modify in comparison to the money spent towards it.
am i really the only person who feels this way??? does anyone else get tired of being raped for Fiero parts in general?? i am bringing up the tough questions now. this is a limited market car that is on the wrong end of the automotive food chain. the V8 conversion INSTANTLY turns the whole situation around and demands respect from F-body clubs, drag strips and local shows.
i do have the money to buy a V8 kit, but i did not get alot of money by dumping it into pet projects. i got it by being a tight ass and working hard for what i have. my frustration is trying to sell an engine with 2 grand in receipts and getting offered like 300 bucks at the most. because nobody has any money or the engine "isn't worth any thing" any more because i modified it to a 3.1 big deal. my time and money has been a slap in the face along with having a car that looks like it should run 10's.
for the record, i do not prefer F-bodies but i do like the engines.
yes, it takes time but if you look through ALL of my past posts over the years i have been a very passive, quiet individual with a few helpful comments here and there. along with the occassional smartass remark.
over the years i have seen people ***** about everything from sparkplugs to catalytic convertors to NOS is cheating and so on. i mean like 50 posts on each about the lamest damn things you can imagine. and the ONE TIME i choose to voice my only complaint this dude tells me to go somewhere else?? you must have a slow car that's why you are offended. when i was asking about ideas for the Targa conversion i got very little input from anyone, but every little bit helped. now i am very happy with my FIERO and it's TIME to REPLACE THE ENGINE!!! geez. maybe someone should start another thread about how many people would do the V8 conversion if they won the lottery or something. that would be interesting.
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09:00 AM
Cozmo Member
Posts: 421 From: Ybor City, FL Registered: Feb 2001
Gotta agree with '80's BOY on this one... The 2.8 IS a P.O.S. and the fact GM put it in the Fiero means the engine usually got flogged mercilessly. I have purchased over the years at least 4 decent Fieros with blown up 2.8s for under $500. My Targa has a warmed over 2.8 in it, it does sound good and it is kinda quick... so I can't complain too much. The nice thing (like artherd said, "some assembly required) is you can put some REALLY decent engines in and solve the problem! BTW, I LIKE the way the cradle drops out! I think it makes any serious mods much easier and once you know the tricks and shortcuts it's really easy.
------------------ Bob Cardone Suncoast Fieros '85 2M6 SE Targa
Your engine is what you make of it..... I'd love to put a 2.0 Mitsu engine in a fiero... 400 HP on the stock engine, you can't beat that with a stick, and a lot of V8s would have trouble taking it too. it's all about money, all a V8 is, is cheap horsepower. get a V8 put it in your living room and stare at it all you what. I'll take a little technology with my HP thank you very much.
good point Rob. now let me ask everyone else how much technology can you get out of a 1985 2.8 with has-been engineering methods. the new engines are capable of phenomenol torque and power curves like with VTEC and rotary designs. what can you do to a 2.8?? turbo?? NOS?? supercharger?? you're basically TREATING it like a small block 350 so why not just put one in there??
Fiero GT = old technology
Fiero GT + engine transplant = power and performance
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10:21 AM
Cyberkhat Member
Posts: 71 From: Middle of the mitt (MI) Registered: Nov 2001
I say to each his own.If you want to drop the rat in your 2M6 then more power to ya.Me - I will be satisfied with a tweaked 3.4 in mine. Not everybody out there is looking for the ultimate low E.T's. I just want to be reasonably quick and look good doing it. Everyone has a slightly differnt concept of what a bad-ass fiero should be.No need to rain on everyone elses parade.Just go do it and be done with it.
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10:36 AM
erikred Member
Posts: 246 From: columbus, OH USA Registered: Nov 2000
Originally posted by RacinRob: Your engine is what you make of it..... I'd love to put a 2.0 Mitsu engine in a fiero... 400 HP on the stock engine, you can't beat that with a stick, and a lot of V8s would have trouble taking it too. it's all about money, all a V8 is, is cheap horsepower. get a V8 put it in your living room and stare at it all you what. I'll take a little technology with my HP thank you very much.
Uh, what 2.0 Mitsubishi engine puts out 400 hp stock?
Erik-
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10:58 AM
yo_sweet Member
Posts: 633 From: heart lake ,ontario Registered: Aug 2001
I would never in my life put a mistubishi engine in my cAR , NOT ONLY BECAUSE IT'S JAP, but the fact that there trash , look at all the daytona's? where are they? in scrap yards all over america , not to mention the k - cars there trash , im going to do my 2.8l up turbo or even supercharged thats good for me!
if i want a v8 i will not invest it into a fiero id get a big block 69 camero or even a hemi cuda , fiero's are meant for v6 performance, that way in a race with the ricers it is still considerd v6 to v6 , or four
yeah, V6 to V6 is fine. i'll be the first to admit that you have to know your competition when driving a Fiero. then you find yourself explaining your car to other people, and also why it's so slow. i'm tired of doing that so i'm raising the bar a bit. i want to be able to live up to the task.
80's Boy: let me know if there's anything I can do to help. Labor-wise, I mean. Can't help financially. I would need some notice, can't just run over there when you call. But really, let me know. I'd even like to just drop by sometime to see how it's going. Maybe I can learn something. Do you go to AAFO meetings? If so, when is the next one?
I've been slowly coming around to your viewpoint for a long time. I too can't disagree with you on this.
Originally posted by yo_sweet: I would never in my life put a mistubishi engine in my cAR , NOT ONLY BECAUSE IT'S JAP, but the fact that there trash , look at all the daytona's? where are they? in scrap yards all over america , not to mention the k - cars there trash...
I don't think they're talking about old re-branded mitsu stuff. Check out the 2nd Gen DSM DOHC motor... it's reliable, easy to upgrade- and will easily outlive a mid-80's GM 2.8L And you can easily get it to pump 400hp (not stock mind you... but with some new turbo/engine control equipment). -------------------------------------
As to 80's BOY- Again... relax a little. You seem way out of control over such a simple thread. As to you Targa info... I'd love to see/hear what you've done- I think it'd be an awsome mod! (seriously... PM or email me).
I was able to overbuild/install my 3.1L (a real 3.1, not a 2.8 stroked) for less than it would've cost me to rebuild my 2.8, much less install a V8 (that's where my savings are headed now... LT1 ). This is why I've invested money into my little V6.
Modern engines (like the VTEC you referred to) are unimpressive motors until you add NOS/Turbo/SC...whatever. Much like the 2.8/3.1 you're currently running. The technology is different (DOHC is far better than any pushrod motor in the long run)- but you still can't take a showroom vechile to the track and lay down 10 or even 12 second runs with some time & money for mods!
As to your statement:
quote
i do have the money to buy a V8 kit, but i did not get alot of money by dumping it into pet projects. i got it by being a tight ass and working hard for what i have
I too have worked hard for my project car...I've easily invested $12k+ over the past 7 years! Oh, and I'm 22. I feel that your statement indicates that the rest of us have "daddy's cash" or similiar to fund our cars- I don't think so.
Again I'd like to finish by saying that- yes, most of what you're saying is fully correct. You just are overreacting to the responses you are getting. Best of luck! And really... email me about the targa!
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01:58 PM
jelly2m8 Member
Posts: 6303 From: Nova Scotia, Canada Registered: Jul 2001
Originally posted by 80's BOY: yeah, V6 to V6 is fine. i'll be the first to admit that you have to know your competition when driving a Fiero. then you find yourself explaining your car to other people, and also why it's so slow. i'm tired of doing that so i'm raising the bar a bit. i want to be able to live up to the task.
Yes I do have a SBC Fiero, but look at my signature, thats taken in my 87 GT with the original 2.8 still in it.
My V6 is no near as quick on acceleration as my V8, but it is still quick / fast enough to keep up with, and ahead of alot of the newer cars on the road.
Obviously alot of people are either speed freaks where they need more power ( me too), or their 2.8 isn't working properly.
Don't ever think that if you dump alot of money in your Fiero, that you will turn a profit on it. Never happens, if it does, its rarely.
------------------
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06:51 PM
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
summer 2002 Ill put my "stupid V6" up against your V8. You ought to bring it up to the oklahoma power fest in May, Ill be coming down from kansas. Ill give you a lesson in SC V6!
People who are so fanatical about ultimate horsepower make me nervous. Ive seen too many of them wrap themselves around poles. Which I believe is natural selection at work except when it takes out innocent drivers. I know because there have been times when I should have been "selected" during some of my races.
And Im sure the 80's knows that there will ALWAYS be someone faster on the street. But he just doesn't sound like it in his first couple of posts. He sounds like too many muscle car boys AND rice boys around here that have more horsepower than common sense.
Fieros didn't come with V8 for many reasons; the average insurance rate for one thing. You don't want to price it for a certain target audience that would then be screwed by the insurance companies. The engineers were already playing around with several engine combinations as well as building techniques. (Like an ALL aluminum space frame...mmmmmmmmmm!)
Another contradiction is a Fiero GT with an engine transplant equalling power and performance and NOT old technology. If you are putting a small block in, you are putting in old technology. Thats the wonder of SBC in today's world of DOHC and variable intakes. What other performance car other than the Vette is putting out obscene power numbers with pushrod technology? Look no further than Viper which takes a VERY old school approach to making power: If you can't beat them with technology CRUSH THEM with cubic inches. Those engines don't have to wait to wind up for torque like VTECs. You have torque RIGHT F***KING NOW. No waiting, no lines. (except the two black ones you can lay down behind you.)
So don't down old technology and embrace the small block at the same time. Sometimes the old ways can be best for the speed you apparently need. Give props. That POS V6 was the most powerful engine IN THE FIERO'S CLASS AT THE TIME. We are talking about the MR-2 (before superchargers and turbos) and the CRX. Lets not forget that it did have the bragging rights for power in its time. Something that the magazines never seemed to take notice of.
I know the power of a V8 in a Fiero because I drove California Kid's Fiero during development here in California before he got it. At the time I had an 87 coupe. How hard was it to start my engine that night after driving the V8? It was brutal.
You'll have no argument from me that a Fiero with a V8 is the ultimate. With a power to weight ratio near Viper level, you do have the advantage of surprise. And I would get a V8 if I won the lottery. But ONLY if its built the same as California Kid's by Keith Huff. Otherwise I would have just as much fun with a 3800 SC from Chris West.
Damn! Nuff said! Except that this was a great thread.
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09:10 PM
Toogy Member
Posts: 465 From: St. Thomas, ON, Canada Registered: Nov 2001
Holy Crap!, I have been driving a seriously under-powered Jeep (2.5) around for 3 years, I can't wait to get my GT and at least have a decent power/weight ratio and the ability to pass people AND the ability to maintain 75 mph would be nice too! I guess it is all perspective
------------------ Soon to be: 1987 GT 5-speed
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10:28 PM
yo_sweet Member
Posts: 633 From: heart lake ,ontario Registered: Aug 2001
I say to each his own.If you want to drop the rat in your 2M6 then more power to ya.Me - I will be satisfied with a tweaked 3.4 in mine. Not everybody out there is looking for the ultimate low E.T's. I just want to be reasonably quick and look good doing it. Everyone has a slightly differnt concept of what a bad-ass fiero should be.No need to rain on everyone elses parade.Just go do it and be done with it.
). This is why I've invested money into my little V6.
