Illegal Alien Influx (Page 2/5)
Tony Kania APR 15, 12:47 PM
Build that wall President Trump.

Enforce the laws passed by Democrats and Republicans alike.

This wall would have been paid for nearly several times over by this date this year if it were not for the insane amount of money given toward illegals currently. If you have a leak, you stem that flow and repair the problem.

Let countries run themselves. We/I am in no way responsible for the actions of others. There is no path to me regarding the fiction aforementioned by Threedog.

Not only continue the war on drugs, but increase pressure on countries producing these drugs that are being shipped into this country. Slam the door in their faces when they approach looking to purchase or sell goods until they can handle their own house.

I am very much in support of human rights policies, but those policies must be sound, and not based upon what the "Plastic Media" is showing us.

The record number of entries illegally will only cease when a physical barrier is made available to those of us that desire it. I challenge anyone here to leave their front door open this evening that believes otherwise. In fact, forget about ever locking one's own door from this point forward. If you can do that, then I will listen to other options. For now, for now I will use time honored methods of security.

I am proud of my Grandparents following the laws of this great nation when they entered this country by way of boat. I am very honored to be a citizen of what they created. It is sad to see mad hatted ideologies tamper with the beauty around us. Yet here we are when the roads are filled with garbage, drugged out individuals or groups on every corner, no regard for simple and basic laws, and an internet meant for education used to sample the public for it's wares. You can find me in the GT today pounding the mountains of Northern Idaho. It is a drift party, and I am about to explode!

williegoat APR 15, 12:57 PM
I propose an even trade: for every illegal that makes it north of the border, we should send one leftist to Tegucigalpa.

[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 04-15-2019).]

olejoedad APR 15, 01:54 PM
There is no legal basis for illegal aliens crossing the border by avoiding ports of entry. Their actions are against the law.

Let's go point by point....

"Because its a waste of money and there is no legal ground for it? It also splits up families in unnecessary ways."

Most of the sanctuary areas are very close to the border, transportation costs would be minimal. We are transporting them anyway.
Splitting families? Family groups can be released as family units to the sanctuary cities.
Legal ground? They are in government custody, they can be released where ever the government chooses.

"The goal of this policy is not to solve the problem, the goal is to 'punish' liberals(which won't even work, because sanctuary cities do not see this as a punishment as they already have massive immigrant populations). There is such a huge push right not towards punishing the other side and turning democrats into the enemy that there is no actual focus on solutions. If we want to solve this problem, which I agree is a problem, we have to talk about solutions that actually work."

A time honored tradition of the Democratic Party. The phrase "Turn about is fair play" comes to mind. The Democrats words and actions since the election of the current President speak very loudly.

The President has offered to meet with the Democratic Party to work out immigration issues on numerous occasions, the Democrats refuse to meet and discuss the issue.

"Solutions that work much better than a wall/enforcement:
- Economically and politically stable Latin American countries. We need to take responsibility for our actions as a country and realize that the lack of stability in many of these countries is a direct result of US interference.Source"

I suggest you do a lot more reading, and from sources other than Wikipedia.

"- End the war on drugs. Our black market for illegal drugs funds many of the cartels in the area and is not reducing substance abuse in this country. We need to decriminalize the majority of drug use and focus on rehabilitation instead of sending everyone to prison. We need to treat addiction as a disease, not a legal problem. Source"

I don't disagree, but I would add that if a person OD's, let them die. Do Not Resusitate
If a person actively seeks help, provide the help. Drug testing for unemployment and welfare benefits as well.

"- Increase trade between Latin countries and support human rights policies, the quicker that other countries catch up economically the less they can exploit us. After all, mexico is not stealing our jobs, automation is. Source"

If they have products that we need, we buy them.
If we have products that they need, they buy them.
It is responsibility of their government, banks, and citizens to improve their country, not ourtaxpayers.

"- To stop terrorism we need to focus on legal ports of entry, not the border. Source"

There is already an incredible amount of focus and resources at the points of entry.
What keeps illegal aliens from avoiding the ports of entry? - Nothing at all.

"There are many solutions to this problem, but a wall and enforcement is not one of them. Our money would be better spent in many, many other places."

This is one of the most illogical statements I have ever heard.

[This message has been edited by olejoedad (edited 04-15-2019).]

Threedog APR 15, 02:27 PM

quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

There is no legal basis for illegal aliens crossing the border by avoiding ports of entry. Their actions are against the law.

Let's go point by point....

"Because its a waste of money and there is no legal ground for it? It also splits up families in unnecessary ways."

Most of the sanctuary areas are very close to the border, transportation costs would be minimal. We are transporting them anyway.
Splitting families? Family groups can be released as family units to the sanctuary cities.
Legal ground? They are in government custody, they can be released where ever the government chooses.



Most sanctuary cities are close to the border? Do you have a source on that?

Once you become a criminal, there are still laws based on how you can be treated. You can't be executed for smoking weed(for example). The legality of asylum seekers for example is much different than those just trying to immigrate.


quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

"The goal of this policy is not to solve the problem, the goal is to 'punish' liberals(which won't even work, because sanctuary cities do not see this as a punishment as they already have massive immigrant populations). There is such a huge push right not towards punishing the other side and turning democrats into the enemy that there is no actual focus on solutions. If we want to solve this problem, which I agree is a problem, we have to talk about solutions that actually work."

A time honored tradition of the Democratic Party. The phrase "Turn about is fair play" comes to mind. The Democrats words and actions since the election of the current President speak very loudly.



An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Even if it were true that democrats words and actions are about punishing the president, that doesn't mean its a good thing the other way around.


quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:
The President has offered to meet with the Democratic Party to work out immigration issues on numerous occasions, the Democrats refuse to meet and discuss the issue.



Not sure where you get your information...https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/09/us/politics/government-shutdown-trump-senate.html

Last time Democrats tried to negotiate with Trump, he stormed out like a child. Now he is trying? Why should they expect him to do anything differently?


quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:
"Solutions that work much better than a wall/enforcement:
- Economically and politically stable Latin American countries. We need to take responsibility for our actions as a country and realize that the lack of stability in many of these countries is a direct result of US interference.Source"

I suggest you do a lot more reading, and from sources other than Wikipedia.



I spent a historical seminar arguing American influence on Latin American countries. We are completely responsible for installing unpopular, far right governments that stifled economic growth and made corruption run rampant in these countries. We are responsible, please stop deflecting this argument by saying "get better sources", its just a good overview. You have no argument that we did NOT do this.


quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:
"- End the war on drugs. Our black market for illegal drugs funds many of the cartels in the area and is not reducing substance abuse in this country. We need to decriminalize the majority of drug use and focus on rehabilitation instead of sending everyone to prison. We need to treat addiction as a disease, not a legal problem. Source"

I don't disagree, but I would add that if a person OD's, let them die. Do Not Resusitate
If a person actively seeks help, provide the help. Drug testing for unemployment and welfare benefits as well.



This is the problem though. You see addiction as a bad decision, its not a decision its a disease. You want to let people die because they have a disease? These people can't make rational decisions, its not a legal issue.


quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

"- Increase trade between Latin countries and support human rights policies, the quicker that other countries catch up economically the less they can exploit us. After all, mexico is not stealing our jobs, automation is. Source"

If they have products that we need, we buy them.
If we have products that they need, they buy them.
It is responsibility of their government, banks, and citizens to improve their country, not our taxpayers.




So you agree we should have more open and free trade? That is the argument I am making.


quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:
"- To stop terrorism we need to focus on legal ports of entry, not the border. Source"

There is already an incredible amount of focus and resources at the points of entry.
What keeps illegal aliens from avoiding the ports of entry? - Nothing at all.



This is just not true. We have a large amount of border control already. Plus, the vast majority do not come over this border. Immigrants are not pouring over random places along the boarder in the middle of the desert when we look at historical trends, those numbers are actually down. Source



quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:
"There are many solutions to this problem, but a wall and enforcement is not one of them. Our money would be better spent in many, many other places."

This is one of the most illogical statements I have ever heard.




Do you have any data backed evidence that increased enforcement actually decreases demand?
Unless you are arguing for a genocide, we can't police our way out of this. Increasing police presence doesn't work. It hasn't worked with drugs, it wouldn't work with guns, and it doesn't work with immigration.
olejoedad APR 15, 02:34 PM
I've spent the last 50 years paying close attention to events around the world, as history and current events have been my passion since childhood.
I have also witnessed a large-scale rewriting of history in the curriculum in our schools, so I take 'sources' with a good degree of skepticism.

Take my comment for what you will.

We disagree, and I'm ok with that.
AlanD APR 15, 02:50 PM

quote
You see addiction as a bad decision, its not a decision its a disease. You want to let people die because they have a disease? These people can't make rational decisions, its not a legal issue.



Yup you are exactly right. So many people are just minding their own business and catch a bad case of meth. No reason to blame them.
olejoedad APR 15, 02:52 PM
Decisions have consequences.

Make good decisions.

Take responsibility for your actions.
Threedog APR 15, 03:09 PM
Psychology teaches us that "free will" is not black and white.

Humans are not rational actors. It is unreasonable to expect someone who grew up in an area of high drug use to make a decision in the same way as someone who grew up in an area of low drug use.
We can't ignore socio-cultural influences on the human brain, we are products of our environment.

I am very curious to some of your answers to this question: Why do low-income people decide to do drugs at a higher rate than middle and upper income people? Why do black/Hispanic Americans commit crime at higher rates?

olejoedad APR 15, 03:18 PM
Perhaps they are unhappy with their lot in life, and decide that it's easier to take a substance than it is to work to change their environment.

Conscious decisionmaking

Edit to add.....
Humans are the most rational beings on the planet, if they choose to use their intellect to make rational decisions, rather than be ruled by emotional responses to stimuli.

Again, conscious decisionmaking.

[This message has been edited by olejoedad (edited 04-15-2019).]

randye APR 15, 03:22 PM

quote
Originally posted by Threedog:

I am very curious to some of your answers to this question: Why do low-income people decide to do drugs at a higher rate than middle and upper income people? Why do black/Hispanic Americans commit crime at higher rates?



Because of leftists like you and your hateful bigotry of low expectations of other people that you insist on segregating by race and class just like you did in your "question".

You simply cannot, or will not, see yourself for what you really are. That epiphany *might* come for you along with maturity someday. Then again, maybe not.