[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 10-16-2023).]

Alright you 2, don't make me come back there!!

quote Hah, I had to look that up. I'd never heard of 4-H. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4-H

Generally speaking, back in the day 4H was mostly female and consisted of things closer related to what went on inside a farmhouse. Quilt making, how to prepare country style meals, small animal raising (poultry mostly) ... stuff a farmer's wife might have to do. But now, it's different. 4H is now both male and female and there are lots of 4H girls raising calves, and lots of girls most places in FFA too.

Todd, I don't know If I've ever read where you were born but obviously Fla is at least your adopted home state. If you didn't already know it, cattle have beena part of Florida's history long before the big ranches began in Texas. There is a breed (type) of cattle still there today called Cracker Cattle and they were introduced there when the Spanish owned Florida in the 1500s. They almost went extinct when so many ranchers switched over to English breeds (Hereford, then Angus) and continental breeds like Limousin and Charolais. The Spanish cows were/are perfectly suited to Florida. They eat just about anything, insect and heat resistant, adequate milk for calves and pretty docile, and resistant to a type hoof rot meaning they can do well in wet regions other cattle breeds would not.

They are beginning to make a comeback now. I'll let you look into it to satisfy your own curiosity, but you need to understand that they were one of the few earliest beef cattle introduced to the new world, well before (about 200 years before ) the first Hereford ever came here and certainly before Angus arrived, which was after Herefords came here.

Fla is ideally suited to agriculture because both livestock and crops are grown according to Latitude, and not so much longitude, at least East of the Rockies. If you can grow it in East Texas, Ga, Miss or La, you can grow it in Fla.

The problem with farming in Fla nowadays, is much like everywhere else...the price/value of land. It reaches (has reached) a point, where the value of the dirt itself is more than what can be produced on it easily. This is especially true with older farmers/ranchers (myself included) . Every business has an exit strategy and one day it occurs to ya (if you don't have children interested in taking over the family farm) that it's time to sell and take the $$ and run. A man might make 6 figures/year farming (and it's HARD never ending work to do so no matter STO or BTO) but can sell that several hundred acres of land for $7000-20,000 an acre, when it was bought for just a couple of hundred/acre 50 years before. Even on the low end, a 150 ac place is worth 1 mil $. That kind of return is hard to resist when you're old and wore out.

So, why is there usually an uptick in the # of small farms nationwide? Because notwithstanding the number that disappear due to attrition of age, as the decades go by, there's still enough big parcels get divided into smaller parcels for a farmer/rancher's kids, then subdivided again the next generation.
Quickly coming to a base line tho, as many young ones today want an easier life than farming. No days off. In 20years, my wife and I took exactly ONE vacation and even then, didn't wander too far away. Spent it down in Corpus and had to cut it short because our house/farm sitter got scared one night and left.

We have still, some really biig ranches in the US. Texas, Wyo, Neb etc and up in the Dakotas and PacNW but if you want to see some really BTOs, look at Canada.
I speak to a couple of ranchers up there on internet several times/week and they're running thousands of head of beef cattle and they aren't even in the really big scope of things. Really nice folks too, that NEVER talk down to STOs. One has invited me up several times to spend a couple of weeks but I just can't do the cold, or the mosquitos. The Great White Cowboy might help round the cows up off the mountain sides each fall but he has to be a ***** to work in during the winter.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 10-16-2023).]

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Alright you 2, don't make me come back there!!

Sorry Don. Out of respect to you, I'll let it go.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: ...but if you want to see some really BTOs, look at Canada. I speak to a couple of ranchers up there on internet several times/week and they're running thousands of head of beef cattle and they aren't even in the really big scope of things.

Would this be in Alberta?

[EDIT] I wasn't really sure what BTO or STO stood for. I was pretty sure you weren't referring to this BTO... but I found an excellent thread here... BTO and STO lingo.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 10-17-2023).]

I was working as skilled labor for the fair grounds (Oklahoma City)one year and we had a youth expo. Mostly goats. They take pride in cleaning and working with their animals. The labor force behind the scenes free and paid is incredible for just a week long event. A lot of money in the whole thing. 100k+ trucks towing not only the livestock, but many had their RVs or whatever to stay on grounds during the show. I wouldn't show my ignorance by guessing how many millions, but it's a huge part of the economy. It turns into a whole city overnight. Equestrian shows were also really neat. Lots of beautiful well tended animals.

I met a girl online years and years ago from Craigslist. She was moving here from NY. She had never driven a car before and that was part of first dating. She really believed we rode houses to work and such. This was 2007 maybe? I had no idea what the heck she was even getting at. I guess it's still a common misconception lack of knowledge.


My cousin has one on his homestead. What kind Don?

Wasn't logged in. Had to add the photo.

[This message has been edited by ls3mach (edited 10-17-2023).]

My guess would be a that is a Corrientes/Jersey cross steer but may be Corrientes. A steer, because it's too fleshy to be a heifer--too filled out and the hooks and pin bones (hip bones) are barely visible.

Patrick, Small, big and huge Ranches are all over Canada. BC, Saskatchewan, Aberta.
I knew the focus of this non-fiction book as Idaman from another forum. He told his story there and his family compiled the book partly from a VERY long thread on that forum, after he suddenly died. It's very good read.


I mentioned The Great White Cowboy. In the US Pacific Northwest, the Rockies, and up in Canada, the ranchers don't have to go up into the high country to gather cattle in the fall. Cattle are pretty smart and have good memories. The first snowfall is the great white cowboy and the cattle start moving down to the valleys on their own as soon as first snow takes place because they know that is where the hay will be fed.

Todd you are correct. The tax exemption on ag land is significant most states. It cut my property tax by nearly 70% back in East Texas. In Texas you only need 15 acres for cattle (in varies county to county) and even less for hay, goat, and bee production. In E. Texas, you can run successfully 1 pair (cow and her calf) on 2 1/2 acres. Out here where I'm at that gets lots less rainfall, you would probably need 7-10 acres/pair. Some places farther west you may need 20acres or more per pair and the county appraisal district's ag advisory board sets the qualifications. You don't have to own the livestock. You can lease the land to someone that does own livestock and still get the same exemption.

The livestock shows are indeed a big deal, and some, like Houstoon, DFW, and places like KC, OK City and The National Western shows are HUGE deals, with the winners selling for high 6 figures.
I may tell the story of what happened at The Nat Western Show one year..a bit of shennanigans that was hard to believe.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 10-18-2023).]

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Patrick, Small, big and huge Ranches are all over Canada. BC, Saskatchewan, Alberta.

Don, I thought of Alberta first, as Alberta Beef is highly promoted... but of course, I didn't even think of the massive ranches right here in BC. Living on the coast, it's easy to forget what the interior of the province is like. My dad had mentioned The Gang Ranch to me when I was a kid.

quote They settled and developed land forming the Gang Ranch, a ranch that, at one time, was considered one of the largest and most famous ranches in the world, controlling over four million acres of land and thousands of cattle and horses.

Wow!

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 10-18-2023).]