Fiero No.2 - 88formula 3800/F23 swap (Page 8/15)
ignorant prodigy MAY 21, 08:11 PM
busy weekend. Hooked up the starter and the clutch line, added coolant and oil, added gas and hooked up the battery. Then tried to fire it.
No dice.. didnt realize there's an ignition safety switch on the clutch pedal..
Then I pushed in the clutch and it fired but died instantly.. if I hit it with gas it ran but poorly.. needed to hold the gas down.
then with some help realized it was probably my MAF not being programmed.. so I unhooked it and fired it.

it runs!

video is on FB. Need to get the MAF tuned into the PCM, but it runs, hold idle strong. Still have a lot of work ahead of me.. but hearing it run is a relief!
ignorant prodigy MAY 28, 06:23 PM
spent some time on the spoiler today.








still on the fence.. we'll see if I can get it mounted securely. I think I'll get some 90* elbows for the feed and return lines.
ignorant prodigy JUN 20, 10:37 AM
thought I'd add the video. My wife heard it start from in the house so she came to see.

Chasing down what I think is a Vac leak now. The PCM was programmed for the MAF.. but it still won't start/run when the MAF is plugged in. It seems to idle a little high when the MAF is unplugged. I'll take some carb cleaner to it and see if I can't track down a leak. Really hoping I don't have one on the IC.. I don't want to have to pull it apart.



I sprung a fuel leak shortly after this video.. on the small line by the filter. I wound up getting a new line from the fiero store and fixing it. Can't do much more w/o fixing the mounts.
Drewbdo JUN 20, 04:29 PM
I have an 88GT with an F-car replica body. I'd love to replace the engine with something that has a little more power, and the auto with a 5 speed.

I'm following along with your progress, and enjoying this thread. Keep going!
ignorant prodigy JUL 05, 02:25 PM
My car won’t start with the MAF connected.
My initial thought was the MAF wasn’t programmed in. I can’t use my HPtuner because I don’t have the original install CD. It’s too old and they won’t support it.
So my buddy Greg was nice enough to swing by and re-program my PCM for the correct MAF. Unfortunately even with the MAF tables fixed the car still won’t start. If I unplug the MAF the car runs. The idle seems smooth but it’s revving extremely high at idle. Anywhere from 4500rpm to 5000pm.

My first guess:
Maybe the tune is still wrong? Or the MAF is wired wrong? Or the MAF is bad?
--with the MAF disconnected I do get a code.. which leads me to believe it’s wired correctly.

Second guess:
Really bad Vacuum leak.
With open manifolds it’s extremely loud.. especially with it revving this high. That makes trying to identify changes in revving difficult when using the conventional ‘carb cleaner’ method.

Third guess:
Bad IAC/TPS or MAP. I don’t know how this plays into it not running with the MAF connected…
I plan on swapping these out soon.. my fear is that it’s more of a wiring issue

Things I’ve tried to troubleshoot my idle revving issue until I can get my hands on another tuner to reprogram the MAF again.
1. Sprayed carb cleaner in search of a vacuum leak- no obvious change in idle but again it’s very hard to tell.
2. Swapped MAF to another used unit – no change
3. Unplugged the IAC – no change (this could mean it’s stuck open?) I’m going to grab a new one since it’s fairly cheap.
4. Plugged various vacuum lines – no change (BBV, Brake booster, Evap)
5. I installed 1.9 rockers when the engine was out. I’ve checked the front rockers just to see if a pushrod slipped out. My thought was maybe the rockers bolts backed out and an intake valve is just chilling there open. I didn’t check the rear because I need to remove the tensioner and that’s a project I’m not willing to try until I rule out some other things.
6. Tightened the cover on the PCV valve and the vacuum housing on top of the blower. I have the first version of the ZZP full size IC. It blocks the PCV so I’m running a breather.
7. Checked the Throttle screw.. it's fully closed.

Full disclosure: I have a bad exhaust leak in my rear manifold. I have a new rear PLOG from zzp waiting to be installed.

Here’s what I think I’ll try next:
1. I ordered a $100 vacuum leak tester from Ebay. Maybe I can smoke out the leak?
2. Swap the IAC/MAP and TPS sensors for shits and giggles
3. Reprogram the MAF again and see if maybe it’s still wrong?
4. Check the rear rockers/pushrods to see if a bolt backed out.

Anyone else have any ideas?
ignorant prodigy JUL 07, 11:44 AM
I tried a couple things while I wait for the smoke kit.

Found a nifty facebook site for troubleshooting 3800’s. https://www.facebook.com/GM...osts/649613958521103

I had a spare MAP sensor and the other MAF. And I tried connecting/disconnecting The MAP, ICV, MAF etc.. all kind of different situations. I think I’ve ruled out a bad ICV, MAF and MAP sensors as nothing I did made any difference whatsoever.

Since I have the IC blocking the PCV I thought I’d try starting the car with the regular oil cap and not the breather.
It wouldn’t start with the MAF connected, but with the MAF disconnected it did idle significantly better. I was hitting around 2200 rpms.. still high but not as high
When I put the breather back on it started around 2500 rpms and within a few seconds started climbing to almost 3000rpm.. or so my gauge said.. my tach was reading nearly 5000rpm



Now I'm thinking it's 1 of 3 things.
1. Bad valve seal?
2. LIM gaskets.. they were changed to the new style.. maybe the install was bad?
3. Bad SC/IC gasket seal around the PCV channel

I'm going to check the oil and coolant.. see if I'm getting any mixing.
ignorant prodigy JUL 16, 07:14 PM
Ran my Smoke test

Well... I thought the IC core blocked off the EGR port.. it had been a very long time since I installed it.
So after this video and some searching... i thought I'd try and just run something through it and see if it was a gasket or just an open hole.
Here you can see the white ziptie going right through the TB and out the manifold

oops

Here's my free fix.



After that.. the idle obviously came way down.
However I started getting some crazy surging. It would start ok.. but then quickly deteriorate into this:


So I ran another smoke test.. thinking maybe I missed another vacuum leak. I did find a small one on the TB evap line. I put a cap on it and started it again.. but the surging persisted.. no change at all.

I was heading to a friends house to re-update my PCM MAF tables because after some searching it looked like the LQ4 maf tables I was originally using were a little off from what I saw online. After some playing around with the PCM.. I think my idle woes are finally cleaned up.. no more gremlings currently. It's a good feeling.

[This message has been edited by ignorant prodigy (edited 07-17-2017).]

fierogt455 SEP 29, 08:38 PM
How is she running?
ignorant prodigy APR 15, 10:04 AM
been a long time since an update.

I've spent a considerable amount of time and money on mount issues. In hindsight I definitely would have got myself a welder and made my own had I know how much of a headache this was going to be.

The first set of mounts I bought included both transmission brackets and the engine bracket from Dan.
I'm using poly mounts from rodney dickman
There's a mounting tab on the transmission.. looks like maybe it was there for assembly? The rear transmission bracket wouldn't fit unless I shaved it.


After the install I realized I had no clearance for the transmission shifter bracket. The entire drivetrain sits too far back.


That's where I stalled last year.
I spoke with FieroRog and ordered a set of F23 brackets from him.
However I didn't realize they actually use that assembly tab I shaved for the first set as a mounting point.. uuggghhh

Soon after I realized this BVMotorsports were considering making F23 brackets. They needed a big enough group by.. but after the shifter brackets didn't quite do as well as they wanted.. and they didn't get enough for a group by.. that option went out the window.

My last option was Roger Thelin here in the forums.
I only ordered the rear bracket from him because I figured out of the 2 fronts I have I could make one of those work.
The first bracket Roger sent he miss-shipped the front... lol oy
So i returned it and swapped it for the rear.

Ok.. Day 1...
I took off the front and rear brackets from Dan and tried installing the Thelin bracket.. keep in mind I'm trying to save myself from dropping the cradle and unhooking everything. So I have the engine held up by the hoist and the car on jack stands.
I can't for the life of me get the Thelin bracket to bolt up to the transmission.. I hacking away for a long time until I realized the bracket itself didn't line up to the holes on the transmission. At this point it's dark and I'm not comfortable leaving the hoist holding up the engine by itself.. and all my jack stands were holding the car up.. so I re-installed the first set of brackets..

Day 2
I got my hands on another F23 transmission super cheap to give me an idea of how far off the bracket is.. and maybe modify it to fit.
This pic shows just how far off the bracket was.


So I got out my mallet.. and hammered it into submission


I managed to get the Thelin bracket on the transmission .. but could not get the engine bracket to now line up..
the new position of the drivetrain just won't fit with the old engine bracket from the very first set.
I took off the engine mount and tried drilling new holes to help me squeeze it in. But my drill bit broke after 1 hole... and at this point it's late again.. and I've burned another Saturday.
Again.. I don't want to have it just hanging by the hoist.. so I re-installed the engine bracket and just had it sit on top of the bolts until I could get back to it.

Day 3
I notched holes in the engine bracket and got it to slide down and installed. I attached the FieroRog front bracket (which honestly looks a little thin in spots.. and uses another assembly tab which makes me nervous in it's integrity)


I now have transmission bracket clearance!


But my engine bracket is still not good enough.. because my alternator is literal hair away from hitting the strut tower now


So now next weekend maybe I'll take the engine bracket off.. and try making it work.. but at this point it's a shell of what it should be.. it's been hacked to hell.
Right now I have a front bracket from FieroRog, a rear bracket from Thelin, and a hacked up engine bracket from Dan

ugh
ignorant prodigy MAY 30, 07:47 PM
update!

The engine mounted with the fierorog engine bracket, but the alternator still hit my strut tower.
So I went back to rog and got the alternator relocate. I needed a bigger tensioner pulley with ribs, it's easier than adjusting the tension assembly itself.


.
.
.
.
With the new engine mount my shifter cables could now get installed with enough clearance!


.
.
.
.
This opened up the door for me to move on to more fun projects.. those mounts killed my motivation.
The rear manifold had a big crack in it that I tried to patched with JB weld.. I learned quickly that was pretty stupid.. so I got the other Plog from zzp


.
.
.
After that I thought I'd try starting it before I put the suspension back on, juuuust in case. Battery was dead.. but a quick Jump and it fired up.. however I developed a lifter tick ...womp womp


.
.
.
The following weekend I planned on listening for which side the tick was on and tearing into it.. I suspected one of the rocker bolts maybe was torqued right since I put the 1.9's on there. But to my surprise the tick was gone! Hydraulic lifter filled up with oil? Maybe from sitting so long it just needed time.


.
.
.
Now that it's running smoothly, on to the suspension!


.
.
.
One of my long bolts is actually bent... so I ordered some new ones from Rodney Dickman, along with the girdles.


.
.
.
While I wait for the long bolts to come in, I started mocking up the spoiler. I took off the stock one and positioned the new one.


Then I added some braces to help strengthen what I removed


That's it for now! I'll try and keep at it through the summer... still a long way to go

------------------
87 Fiero GT- 98 L67 swap - (SOLD)
88 Fiero Formula- L67 swap in progress
T-Top 672 of 1252