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| A retrofit for gen 1 headlight (Not a gen 2 swap) (Page 4/10) |
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theogre
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FEB 09, 05:58 PM
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You mention micro switches... Likely not to control power to motors direct but even "sealed inside" of Gen1 motors etc micro switches have a Very long history of problems. (Gen1 motors keep most crap out but generate dirt from bush wear etc.)
Example: Is one of the biggest problems computer "mice" of any type is dust etc will get in them and fail to click no matter what position sensing used. I clean hundreds of all types when "dead" to have spares to keep people working in "Fortune 500" size businesses. Optical mouse only solve 1 part of ball mouse problems. Nearly all use cheap unsealed micro switches for buttons.
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Are you using Relays to switch power to the motors?
If true... Data "printed" on relays and switches are for Resistive Loads. Buy from even best brands that also publish valid data sheets you find Inductive Loads like motors only accept < 1/3 to 1/2 amp rating @ giving volts for AC or maybe DC.
Omron and some others have good Data Sheets. Other cheap relays may have a "DS" but missing a lot of data or completely ignore inductive data and/or testing means has No Rating for this but many treat as 10 amps is 10 amps regardless of what is controlled.
While Gen2 Module has a small relay but only to set up/down and MOSFETs to switch power.
If you see a burned relay here, something else is wrong on that board. Example: Board has iffy solder etc and can't "see" motor amp draw right and fail to turn off a stalled motor frying Relay, MOSFET or whatever even the motor itself.
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⚠️ power to the module can be a problem. More so when wired is "on" 24/7 as Gen1 and Gen2 HL motors...
GM and many others only allow ~ 35mA from a battery when parked. Is so hopefully can park for a week or more and still drive. OE ECM and Radio takes some of that. Even w/o having Gen2 HL, many have "Battery Tender" etc covered in https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/146657.html and more threads because can't/won't drive long enough and/or often enough to keep battery charge w/o it.
Example: My Fiero or any car after mainly only use to go to local store etc. For most other driving have bigger vehicle to take people, dog(s) and more to where ever.
While you can Deep Sleep most "Arduino" MCU types, many have USB and other "chips" that never sleep and sucks power.
Related: Newer "Cars" often use Bigger Wet or AGM batteries often because they often use a lot more "Standby Power" to keep PCM BCM and more happy for a week+ parked. Worse, Some models may have Under Size Alternator or have Stop/Start BS and use Battery power at stop lights, in slow traffic, etc. So don't compare power used to run or parked Fiero etc to most newer models. (Small Alt etc is for Business Reasons involving CAFE points and more rules/laws forced by US Govrmnts and Many others. GM et al just hope to buy the crap thinking they care.)[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 02-09-2023).]
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Dukesterpro
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FEB 09, 06:21 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by theogre:
You mention micro switches... Likely not to control power to motors direct but even "sealed inside" of Gen1 motors etc micro switches have a Very long history of problems. (Gen1 motors keep most crap out but generate dirt from bush wear etc.)
Example: Is one of the biggest problems computer "mice" of any type is dust etc will get in them and fail to click no matter what position sensing used. I clean hundreds of all types when "dead" to have spares to keep people working in "Fortune 500" size businesses. Optical mouse only solve 1 part of ball mouse problems. Nearly all use cheap unsealed micro switches for buttons.
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Are you using Relays to switch power to the motors?
If true... Data "printed" on relays and switches are for Resistive Loads. Buy from even best brands that also publish valid data sheets you find Inductive Loads like motors only accept < 1/3 to 1/2 amp rating @ giving volts for AC or maybe DC.
Omron and some others have good Data Sheets. Other cheap relays may have a "DS" but missing a lot of data or completely ignore inductive data and/or testing means has No Rating for this but many treat as 10 amps is 10 amps regardless of what is controlled.
While Gen2 Module has a small relay but only to set up/down and MOSFETs to switch power.
If you see a burned relay here, something else is wrong on that board. Example: Board has iffy solder etc and can't "see" motor amp draw right and fail to turn off a stalled motor frying Relay, MOSFET or whatever even the motor itself.
---
⚠️ power to the module can be a problem. More so when wired is "on" 24/7 as Gen1 and Gen2 HL motors...
GM and many others only allow ~ 35mA from a battery when parked. Is so hopefully can park for a week or more and still drive. OE ECM and Radio takes some of that. Even w/o having Gen2 HL, many have "Battery Tender" etc covered in https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/146657.html and more threads because can't/won't drive long enough and/or often enough to keep battery charge w/o it.
Example: My Fiero or any car after mainly only use to go to local store etc. For most other driving have bigger vehicle to take people, dog(s) and more to where ever.
While you can Deep Sleep most "Arduino" MCU types, many have USB and other "chips" that never sleep and sucks power.
Related: Newer "Cars" often use Bigger Wet or AGM batteries often because they often use a lot more "Standby Power" to keep PCM BCM and more happy for a week+ parked. Worse, Some models may have Under Size Alternator or have Stop/Start BS and use Battery power at stop lights, in slow traffic, etc. So don't compare power used to run or parked Fiero etc to most newer models. (Small Alt etc is for Business Reasons involving CAFE points and more rules/laws forced by US Govrmnts and Many others. GM et al just hope to buy the crap thinking they care.)
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Actually, my mention of micro switches is that there are none. The only thing electrical in the motor is the brushes and two wires exiting. The point of this design is there is no mechanical operation in the headlight except for the up-and-down movement of the motor and gearbox. Everything is handled entirely digitally. The main controller can detect up down and interrupt. The design does not use timers. Until I get through the class I can't say exactly how it works, but it is a novel approach. The actual detection apparatus is allegedly good for 1,000,000 continuous service hours. Again I can't say what it is.
The main power is however controlled through relays. But instead of mechanical relays, I am using Zietler optocouplers which have zero moving parts last 5-10x time longer than most mechanical relays and are far far more waterproof and humidity proof than mechanical relays. The relays I am using are rated to carry 40 amps at 240v.
My controller if left on draws 1.2 milliamps at idle so it doesn't have a lot of overhead. The trick is the way you power the Arduino. If you use the USB interface you waste a ton of power keeping the communication bus alive and other nonsense. The best method is to power the IC directly via Pin 7 and 8 using a voltage divider.
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sanderson231
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FEB 09, 06:35 PM
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I would be more interested in a control unit that works with Gen II motors for $150 than a controller and modified brushes for Gen I motors for $200. ------------------
formerly known as sanderson
1984 Quad 4
1886 SE 2.8L
1988 4.9L Cadillac
1988 3800 Supercharged
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Dukesterpro
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FEB 09, 06:40 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by sanderson231:
I would be more interested in a control unit that works with Gen II motors for $150 than a controller and modified brushes for Gen I motors for $200.
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There definitely might be a possibility of this. But I would like to see the ability to use Gen1 housings. I highly doubt gen 2 motors are still in production. I know there available. But if everyone starts making the conversion to gen 2 motors now we have the same shortage we did with Gen 1 brush holders.
The option to just buy a gen 2 compatible controller will likely exist. But the ability to repair and reuse gen 1 housing will always remain a part of the initiative. (They made me have a green, ecofriendly component to this capstone project, so I have no choice lol)
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theogre
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FEB 10, 06:48 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Dukesterpro:
The main power is however controlled through relays. But instead of mechanical relays, I am using Zietler optocouplers which have zero moving parts last 5-10x time longer than most mechanical relays and are far far more waterproof and humidity proof than mechanical relays. The relays I am using are rated to carry 40 amps at 240v. |
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Much better then others using small China mech Relays, Often used in "Arduino" developer/school kits, saying crap 10a relays are good with any motor under 10a. Not.
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sanderson231
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FEB 10, 07:17 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Dukesterpro:
There definitely might be a possibility of this. But I would like to see the ability to use Gen1 housings. I highly doubt gen 2 motors are still in production. I know there available. But if everyone starts making the conversion to gen 2 motors now we have the same shortage we did with Gen 1 brush holders.
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1988 headlight motors new - $92 for a pair
https://www.carparts.com/de...&gclsrc=ds&gclsrc=ds
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formerly known as sanderson
1984 Quad 4
1886 SE 2.8L
1988 4.9L Cadillac
1988 3800 Supercharged
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Dukesterpro
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FEB 14, 08:40 AM
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Well I'll be dipped, I guess they are still in production
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fierofool
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FEB 14, 08:12 PM
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That motor is made by ReplacementParts. Similar or the same as the Cardone motors for the Generation 2 87 and 88 Fiero. It isn't OEM.
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Wichita
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FEB 14, 10:33 PM
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I would think that rebuilding the motors with Rodney's kit, even Gen 1 is better than these Gen 2 replacements.
Would this be true?
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Larryinkc
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FEB 15, 09:26 AM
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