What are the advantages of a getrag over a Muncie with a 3800sc swap (Page 3/3)
Lou and Blue MAY 23, 08:38 AM
All I could think of was "Killer Revs"

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===Always trying to find time to work on cars===
Louis Duet
Baldwin, Long Island, NY
Where driving hard is SOP.
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"Blue" <= '85 Fiero GT
Stock V6---Stock everything. Trying to keep it 'mostly' that way. But I just got the 3800sc to swap into it!
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"Boo" <= '81 Delorean DMC-12
The "DuetLorean"
VIN #5835
Stock PRV engine
Robertson Equipped
Neiland/Delman Engineered
Carbed and loving it! (Peugot 604 manifold) ---"Sorry purists"

Justinbart MAY 23, 09:03 AM
KR is knock retard. If the 3800 is predetonating it will pull timing until it stops. The value that shows up in degrees of KR.

The 4 speed failures I had were with gears breaking. The 282 5 speed failures I had was the case cracking ( 2x more power than 4speed). THe F23 has been a work horse and leaps above the fiero transmissions. Better clutch actuation with the HTOB. Smoother and faster shifting.

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Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
10.91@133.1

[This message has been edited by Justinbart (edited 05-23-2014).]

Lou and Blue MAY 23, 09:16 AM
4 spd gears breaking? Oh no! Has anyone else experienced this? Where can I find a F23 and how much would one cost?

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===Always trying to find time to work on cars===
Louis Duet
Baldwin, Long Island, NY
Where driving hard is SOP.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Blue" <= '85 Fiero GT
Stock V6---Stock everything. Trying to keep it 'mostly' that way. But I just got the 3800sc to swap into it!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Boo" <= '81 Delorean DMC-12
The "DuetLorean"
VIN #5835
Stock PRV engine
Robertson Equipped
Neiland/Delman Engineered
Carbed and loving it! (Peugot 604 manifold) ---"Sorry purists"

[This message has been edited by Lou and Blue (edited 05-23-2014).]

Will MAY 23, 02:05 PM

quote
Originally posted by Justinbart:

KR is knock retard. If the 3800 is predetonating it will pull timing until it stops. The value that shows up in degrees of KR.

The 4 speed failures I had were with gears breaking. The 282 5 speed failures I had was the case cracking ( 2x more power than 4speed). THe F23 has been a work horse and leaps above the fiero transmissions. Better clutch actuation with the HTOB. Smoother and faster shifting.



Probably the most common failure mode on a 282 is to break the boss for the right side differential bearing out of the case.
zzzhuh MAY 24, 03:42 AM
From the research I have looked at an 86' Gt muncie transmission is the strongest trans. the fiero had stock.
The 282 is great as mentioned because of the extra gear. But the over all design of the muncie is stronger and can with stand more power. That being said, any trans can fail due to improper use/too much horse power. Look at mitch's post, that is an example of the 282.
Monstertone FEB 19, 01:47 PM
OK, this may either sound like a dumb question or, a too good to be true question. I found these figures on gears ratios for Muncie/Getrag Fiero 5 speed transaxles.
Manual Transmission Gear Ratios
Year _____Style __Code Axle 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th rev.
1988 4cyl 5 speed MT2 3.35 3.73 2.04 1.45 1.03 0.74 3.50
1988 V6 5 speed MG2 3.61 3.50 2.05 1.38 0.94 0.72 3.41

The question is, are the final drive gear sets interchangeable? Upping the final drive ratio from 3.61 to 3.35 in the MG2 Tranny would result in approx 9% taller final drive ratio. If this is possible, why has no one done it? Like said, sounds too good to be true. For a 3800SC swap having more than enough low end torque, it would not only offer lower rpms at highway speeds, but lessen the stresses fed back thru the drive train in the lower gears.
And, if this IS possible, IF anyone just happens to have that 3.35 final drive gear set laying around gathering dust, I sure would be interested in taking it off your hands.
Dennis LaGrua FEB 19, 04:25 PM

quote
Originally posted by zzzhuh:

From the research I have looked at an 86' Gt muncie transmission is the strongest trans. the fiero had stock.
The 282 is great as mentioned because of the extra gear. But the over all design of the muncie is stronger and can with stand more power. That being said, any trans can fail due to improper use/too much horse power. Look at mitch's post, that is an example of the 282.



The Muncie having only four speeds has wider gears that are stronger and should last longer. The Getrag has better highway gearing but at 250ft lbs of torque you are pushing both over their design limits. I know quite a few guys with swaps that blew the case to pieces on the Getrag. I beleive that the F40 is the solution

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

fieroguru FEB 19, 05:58 PM

quote
Originally posted by Monstertone:

OK, this may either sound like a dumb question or, a too good to be true question. I found these figures on gears ratios for Muncie/Getrag Fiero 5 speed transaxles.
Manual Transmission Gear Ratios
Year _____Style __Code Axle 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th rev.
1988 4cyl 5 speed MT2 3.35 3.73 2.04 1.45 1.03 0.74 3.50
1988 V6 5 speed MG2 3.61 3.50 2.05 1.38 0.94 0.72 3.41

The question is, are the final drive gear sets interchangeable? Upping the final drive ratio from 3.61 to 3.35 in the MG2 Tranny would result in approx 9% taller final drive ratio. If this is possible, why has no one done it? Like said, sounds too good to be true. For a 3800SC swap having more than enough low end torque, it would not only offer lower rpms at highway speeds, but lessen the stresses fed back thru the drive train in the lower gears.
And, if this IS possible, IF anyone just happens to have that 3.35 final drive gear set laying around gathering dust, I sure would be interested in taking it off your hands.



The two transmissions are completely different and not interchangeable.

However, if you step up to the F40, then you can swap in a 3.091 final drive from the diesel version in Europe. Not cheap, but is a great setup for higher torque applications.
Monstertone FEB 19, 07:45 PM

quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:


The two transmissions are completely different and not interchangeable.

However, if you step up to the F40, then you can swap in a 3.091 final drive from the diesel version in Europe. Not cheap, but is a great setup for higher torque applications.



Thanks. I was hoping you would chime in Paul. Bummer they are not interchangeable. The 282 will have to do for now though. Maybe some day down the road a Franken-40 will find it's way.