My red 88 GT was stolen today (Page 6/14)
Steel NOV 28, 07:12 AM
Such a nice '88 I really hope you find yours in optimal condition.. they're much much harder to buy in quality condition than they were just a couple of years ago. Relatively cheap cars or not, a nice Fiero draws a lot of attention.. a real pro just drags them up on a trailer and drives off, unfortunately.

My brother-in-law walked up on someone trying to pry the locked door open on his aero coupe a few years back.. dangerous world we live in!

Glad it's just the car and you weren't hurt in the process~

[This message has been edited by Steel (edited 11-28-2021).]

hyperv6 NOV 28, 11:14 AM

quote
Originally posted by reinhart:


Really the best investment is to just buy liability and put the saved premium into your pocket for a rainy day. You can buy a new Fiero every five years for what the insurance companies charge for comp and collision. Or did you really think the insurance companies are losing money from your policy?



Well if you do your home work you will find one policy does not fit all.

If I owned a daily driver work in progress $3000 Fiero your plan would be fine.

In my case I have a low mile Fiero I bought new in 1985. It is clean enough I can polish the under side of the car. I show it and drive it for pleasure only not daily driving. If I were to sell it I would get at the high end on price due to the condition, modifications and rare parts I have collected over 35 years.

Might not too I use collectors insurance as it fits my use well and it is a fraction of what you pay for collision. In fact it is very much in line with liability.

I am covered to the point I could buy a low mile 88 GT or even upgrade to a C5 or C6 corvette easily should something happen.

I don’t but fixer up cars and move on every 5 years. I generally buy and stay with most cars long term. I also go for better condition cars as restoring them anymore can add up to as much or more if you do it right.

If you have a car of decent value collectors insurance is a great option if you do not daily drive. If you don’t have much invested then liability is fine.

I think I am about $550- $600 a year for coverage around $16,000.

[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 11-28-2021).]

Skybax NOV 28, 11:47 AM
I work in the antique/classic car business and talk to people often when something bad happens to their car, because the insurance company wants to give them $6,000 for their $18,000 car because they didn't have the proper insurance, so please allow my two cents...


quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:

Our cars (any old specialty car) call for agreed value insurance as that is the only way to really get a true pay out on a car our are with little hassle.

If you just go by what the insurance company provides most times it will never meet the values we have in the car. (or what the Fair Market Value is to replace it)

If you have a modified car (any old specialty car) only agreed value will provide you with secure coverage.



Correct, and I added bold to elaborate.


quote
Originally posted by reinhart:

Really the best investment is to just buy liability and put the saved premium into your pocket for a rainy day.



If you have "regular insurance" on a "low-value" Fiero that might make sense for some, but for all the people out there who have Fiero's worth $10k to $20k (or any nice old car) it is HIGHLY recommended you have antique/classic "agreed value policy" so in the case of a total loss you get handed a check for the full amount with no hassle.


quote
Originally posted by reinhart:

You can buy a new Fiero every five years for what the insurance companies charge for comp and collision.



Again, that might work on a "low-value" Fiero but not on a low-mileage or desirable Fiero in superb condition, because those examples cost over $10k nowadays and less of them are available over time (just like any old car) and inflation doesn't help matters.


quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:

I think I am about $550- $600 a year for coverage around $16,000.




That is expensive, who is that provider? You might want to shop around, generally speaking a specialty car "agreed value policy" for $10k is usually around $125 to $150 per year, so a $20k policy should be no more than $300 per year.

[This message has been edited by Skybax (edited 11-28-2021).]

hyperv6 NOV 28, 12:27 PM

quote
Originally posted by Skybax:

I work in the antique/classic car business and talk to people often when something bad happens to their car, because the insurance company wants to give them $6,000 for their $18,000 car because they didn't have the proper insurance, so please allow my two cents...


That is expensive, who is that provider? You might want to shop around, generally speaking a specialty car "agreed value policy" for $10k is usually around $125 per year, so a $20k policy should be no more than $300 per year.




To be honest it is likely less. I changed companies not long ago and the wife pays the bills. I just know the total coverage. With prices rising I want to keep pace.


I know when I made the change it cut my cost by something like 2/3.

[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 11-28-2021).]

hnthomps NOV 28, 03:06 PM
I have "agreed value' insurance liability and collision) on my Meras with Grundy Worldwide. The total "agreed value" for the vehicles is about $100k and the policy is right around $1k per year. That is more than a bit lower than the previously quoted cost of insurance in this post. I am quite happy to pay this amount for the stated coverage and it is actually less than what I am paying for insurance on a four year old Kia Rio that one of my sons drives.

Nelson
steve308 NOV 28, 05:05 PM
I also have Grundy.....18k agreed value on my kit--$285.00 for the year. Location does have a lot to do with rates.
hyperv6 NOV 28, 05:41 PM

quote
Originally posted by steve308:

I also have Grundy.....18k agreed value on my kit--$285.00 for the year. Location does have a lot to do with rates.




Now that I think of it I think mine is similar price. I was thinking a half but that was a year price.

It is the only way to go if you have any reasonable value.
reinhart NOV 29, 02:57 AM
People that think they're getting a "good deal", do you really think the insurance companies are losing money on your policy?

There are only three states between you and your insurance company:
1) It's a zero sum (which is impossible due to administration costs). Over the life of your relationship you receive back exactly as much as you pay in. However even in this case, the insurance company loses money because it has to pay administrative costs, salaries, etc. So State 1) is impossible in the real world.

2) You are coming out ahead. You receive back more in beneifts than you pay in premium. If you really think it's you that's coming out ahead, then you must believe the insurance company is losing money. Insurance companies don't lose money or they would close their doors.

3) The only remaining possiblity is the insurance company is coming out ahead. You are not getting a good deal statistically (based on net of premium minus payouts over time).

Now if you are extremely risk averse then you don't mind losing money for "peace of mind". e.g. You know you aren't going to get back what you paid in but you sleep better at night knowing if something happens to your car you'll get $X back.

The "value" of your car is irrelevant. You can insure a $1000 for a stated value of $100,000. The insurance company just charges you more. Everything is just based on statistical modelling. Liklihood of expected claims.

One gotcha you're probably not aware of is that if you insure based upon an agreed upon value which is higher than the actual replacement value and you get into a major accident, you're not going to get a replacement car, you'll just get your otherwise totaled car repaired. So if your Fiero is worth $8000 and you settle upon an agreed value of $20,000, when you get into a $10,000 accident where the car should be totaled, instead of cutting you a check for $8000, they'll spend $12,000 to repair your collector car. The end result is you are driving around in a car that's been repaired and has much lower collector value due to the accident (frame damage, non-matching VIN stickers, etc. Had you insured for the replacement value, you'd have a accident free replacement Fiero in your garage. i would bet a signed dollar that there is no diminished value clause in your agreed value insurance policy, so you won't get any money back for your repaired car's loss of value. Then to add insult to injury, they'll just raise your premium for having a claim.
hyperv6 NOV 29, 03:04 PM

quote
Originally posted by reinhart:

People that think they're getting a "good deal", do you really think the insurance companies are losing money on your policy?

There are only three states between you and your insurance company:
1) It's a zero sum (which is impossible due to administration costs). Over the life of your relationship you receive back exactly as much as you pay in. However even in this case, the insurance company loses money because it has to pay administrative costs, salaries, etc. So State 1) is impossible in the real world.

2) You are coming out ahead. You receive back more in beneifts than you pay in premium. If you really think it's you that's coming out ahead, then you must believe the insurance company is losing money. Insurance companies don't lose money or they would close their doors.

3) The only remaining possiblity is the insurance company is coming out ahead. You are not getting a good deal statistically (based on net of premium minus payouts over time).

Now if you are extremely risk averse then you don't mind losing money for "peace of mind". e.g. You know you aren't going to get back what you paid in but you sleep better at night knowing if something happens to your car you'll get $X back.

The "value" of your car is irrelevant. You can insure a $1000 for a stated value of $100,000. The insurance company just charges you more. Everything is just based on statistical modelling. Liklihood of expected claims.

One gotcha you're probably not aware of is that if you insure based upon an agreed upon value which is higher than the actual replacement value and you get into a major accident, you're not going to get a replacement car, you'll just get your otherwise totaled car repaired. So if your Fiero is worth $8000 and you settle upon an agreed value of $20,000, when you get into a $10,000 accident where the car should be totaled, instead of cutting you a check for $8000, they'll spend $12,000 to repair your collector car. The end result is you are driving around in a car that's been repaired and has much lower collector value due to the accident (frame damage, non-matching VIN stickers, etc. Had you insured for the replacement value, you'd have a accident free replacement Fiero in your garage. i would bet a signed dollar that there is no diminished value clause in your agreed value insurance policy, so you won't get any money back for your repaired car's loss of value. Then to add insult to injury, they'll just raise your premium for having a claim.



If this is what you think that is fine but it is not the whole story.

#1 my cost is $285 a year. This not only covers my liability but also the value of the car should it be stolen, lost in a fire or totaled.

#2 the value of my car generally has increased more than $285 per year.

#3 if it is in a crash and not totaled I only expect them to pay what it cost to restore the car back to what it was.

#4 few coverages cover diminished value. On older and restored cars it is much less an issue as most of the cars have been apart and restored. Also in cases of collector cars demand for a car is greater than the number of cars out there so most people buy based on their own inspection. Car fax really does not her restored cars.

#5 if stolen or totaled I am not out my full investment. I am also not stressed out looking for my car that is gone either. If it is found great if not I have enough to replace it.

To me that couple hundred dollars is a good investment just as health insurance. My buddy was going to save money and skip his insurance. Then he had heart surgery.

Look for what you pay or a little more for liability only I get full coverage for my car on the collectors insurance.

While I don’t know your cars condition keep in mind mine is better than new. It is worth enough to protect.
reinhart NOV 30, 02:25 AM

quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:


If this is what you think that is fine but it is not the whole story.

#1 my cost is $285 a year. This not only covers my liability but also the value of the car should it be stolen, lost in a fire or totaled.

#2 the value of my car generally has increased more than $285 per year.

#3 if it is in a crash and not totaled I only expect them to pay what it cost to restore the car back to what it was.

#4 few coverages cover diminished value. On older and restored cars it is much less an issue as most of the cars have been apart and restored. Also in cases of collector cars demand for a car is greater than the number of cars out there so most people buy based on their own inspection. Car fax really does not her restored cars.

#5 if stolen or totaled I am not out my full investment. I am also not stressed out looking for my car that is gone either. If it is found great if not I have enough to replace it.

To me that couple hundred dollars is a good investment just as health insurance. My buddy was going to save money and skip his insurance. Then he had heart surgery.

Look for what you pay or a little more for liability only I get full coverage for my car on the collectors insurance.

While I don’t know your cars condition keep in mind mine is better than new. It is worth enough to protect.



Your points #1-2 have nothing to do with what I said. It's irrelevant if your car appeciates or depreciates. Under a normal actual value policy the premium will just increase or decrease to move with the car's value. Other than an unexpected occurance of hyper-inflation between when you paid for the 6 months and when the 6 months ends, it has no bearing. If there is hyper inflation, then you would get a good deal. However, expected inflation is obviously priced into an insurance policy and no one writes more than 6-12 month policies.

#3 Of course all they will do is pay to repair the car (not replace it) if repair is less than the value of the car. That's nothing special. I was referring to the "Agreed upon value" guys. They're really getting the worst of two worlds. Their "collector car" is totaled but they end up with a horrifically scarred up car with frame damage and non-matching numbers in their garage after paying the premium of a $20,000 car with a car that's really worth $8000 for the previous 10 years. Speaking specifically about Fiero's every low mileage "collector car" I've seen is accident free. Have yet to see a <5000 mile 88 GT (or even a 20.000 mile 88 GT) that's been wrecked. I guarantee you it would lose well more than 30% of it's value if not way more. These are the guys that are getting the "Agreed upon value" policies I'm assuming. I don't think there are many 84 SC owners with 180,000 miles getting $20,000 "agreed value" policies. Or if I'm wrong please speak up.

Yes in the event your car is stolen AND NOT RECOVERED you would get the "agreed value". This is a horrifically small probability. I would bet nobody that has one of these policies even drives the car other than to an occasional show or the like (probably trailered there in reality). In fact I believe most collector policies require the car to be garaged and only driven to shows or on an occasional weekend. So basically your extra agreed value only kicks in in the one in a million chance a thief breaks into your garage and steals your $10.000 Fiero (and that it's never recovered).

If the car is recovered then the damage is repaired just like a collision and "agreed value" is again irrelevant.

The OP's car was stolen from his place of business. I do not believe his driving pattern would even allow a "collector policy" or an "agreed policy".

And honestly how many other Fiero owners have reported a stolen car in the last 10 years? This is the first I've seen. It's literally a one-in hundred thousand (one in a million?) event.