My red 88 GT was stolen today (Page 7/15)
hyperv6 NOV 30, 06:22 AM

quote
Originally posted by reinhart:


Your points #1-2 have nothing to do with what I said. It's irrelevant if your car appeciates or depreciates. Under a normal actual value policy the premium will just increase or decrease to move with the car's value. Other than an unexpected occurance of hyper-inflation between when you paid for the 6 months and when the 6 months ends, it has no bearing. If there is hyper inflation, then you would get a good deal. However, expected inflation is obviously priced into an insurance policy and no one writes more than 6-12 month policies.

#3 Of course all they will do is pay to repair the car (not replace it) if repair is less than the value of the car. That's nothing special. I was referring to the "Agreed upon value" guys. They're really getting the worst of two worlds. Their "collector car" is totaled but they end up with a horrifically scarred up car with frame damage and non-matching numbers in their garage after paying the premium of a $20,000 car with a car that's really worth $8000 for the previous 10 years. Speaking specifically about Fiero's every low mileage "collector car" I've seen is accident free. Have yet to see a <5000 mile 88 GT (or even a 20.000 mile 88 GT) that's been wrecked. I guarantee you it would lose well more than 30% of it's value if not way more. These are the guys that are getting the "Agreed upon value" policies I'm assuming. I don't think there are many 84 SC owners with 180,000 miles getting $20,000 "agreed value" policies. Or if I'm wrong please speak up.

Yes in the event your car is stolen AND NOT RECOVERED you would get the "agreed value". This is a horrifically small probability. I would bet nobody that has one of these policies even drives the car other than to an occasional show or the like (probably trailered there in reality). In fact I believe most collector policies require the car to be garaged and only driven to shows or on an occasional weekend. So basically your extra agreed value only kicks in in the one in a million chance a thief breaks into your garage and steals your $10.000 Fiero (and that it's never recovered).

If the car is recovered then the damage is repaired just like a collision and "agreed value" is again irrelevant.

The OP's car was stolen from his place of business. I do not believe his driving pattern would even allow a "collector policy" or an "agreed policy".

And honestly how many other Fiero owners have reported a stolen car in the last 10 years? This is the first I've seen. It's literally a one-in hundred thousand (one in a million?) event.



Like I said if you have a car not worth $285 a year that is fine.

Easy8 NOV 30, 11:56 AM
"These are the guys that are getting the "Agreed upon value" policies I'm assuming. I don't think there are many 84 SC owners with 180,000 miles getting $20,000 "agreed value" policies. Or if I'm wrong please speak up.

Yes in the event your car is stolen AND NOT RECOVERED you would get the "agreed value". This is a horrifically small probability. I would bet nobody that has one of these policies even drives the car other than to an occasional show or the like (probably trailered there in reality). In fact I believe most collector policies require the car to be garaged and only driven to shows or on an occasional weekend. So basically your extra agreed value only kicks in in the one in a million chance a thief breaks into your garage and steals your $10.000 Fiero (and that it's never recovered)."

As an owner of an 86 chop with an LT1 swap I have an agreed upon value policy.(over 20k) The cost of the labor to build the car again is the value of the policy not matching vins or the like. You are pretty close on the restrictions of the policy. The one in a million chance is not so true. I drive my car to shows and on weekend trips. It gets parked at hotels, restaurants, stores ect while I am out. That is when I would worry about it getting stolen or in an accident not when it is garaged.
hyperv6 NOV 30, 04:23 PM

quote
Originally posted by Easy8:

"These are the guys that are getting the "Agreed upon value" policies I'm assuming. I don't think there are many 84 SC owners with 180,000 miles getting $20,000 "agreed value" policies. Or if I'm wrong please speak up.

Yes in the event your car is stolen AND NOT RECOVERED you would get the "agreed value". This is a horrifically small probability. I would bet nobody that has one of these policies even drives the car other than to an occasional show or the like (probably trailered there in reality). In fact I believe most collector policies require the car to be garaged and only driven to shows or on an occasional weekend. So basically your extra agreed value only kicks in in the one in a million chance a thief breaks into your garage and steals your $10.000 Fiero (and that it's never recovered)."

As an owner of an 86 chop with an LT1 swap I have an agreed upon value policy.(over 20k) The cost of the labor to build the car again is the value of the policy not matching vins or the like. You are pretty close on the restrictions of the policy. The one in a million chance is not so true. I drive my car to shows and on weekend trips. It gets parked at hotels, restaurants, stores ect while I am out. That is when I would worry about it getting stolen or in an accident not when it is garaged.



If you would speak to those of us paying for collector policies are this.

#1 these are not daily drivers. But then again I have driven to events hours away and never trailered either.

#2 Theft is the least of our concerns. We are more concerned about getting totaled in a crash, losing the car to a garage fire, vandalism.

#3 our insurance generally covers more and is the same or cheaper than regular liability. So why not get better coverage if we meet the conditions.

#4 the cars are garaged because they are generally worth garaging.

The deal is this there is a wide range of Fiero’s out there. On the web they all look good but in person some would be hard to for me to part out while others are like new.

If I owned a beater or one in great need of work yes I would only have liability. But if my car is of top value be it a Fiero, Vette or Trans Am I will insure it for what it would cost me to replace it or repair it.

Look I am far from rich but $285 is not going to break me or change my life if I do not. If anything I will be paying that much to pay for liability.

The same for my home I carry enough to cover my home to replace it not just get by.

My daily driver is my truck that with me working from home is still low miles. To be honest my Fiero this summer may have seen as many miles as my truck. Besides my truck is much more comfortable to drive around town and much easier to get good parts for it since they still make them.

My car is of condition that I show it. I show it mostly at large Pontiac events and even won best of show awards at the Pontiac and large regional event with a Fiero. It has been loaned out to GM to show at their events and even been on display in the Summit Racing Retail store.

I need protection in these places and if something should happen I can have the car restored or replaced. If I’m going to pay this much for liability and still use it this way why not get the better coverage for the money.

The car has parts that are prototype and rare parts you just don’t see or find anymore. My car is my hobby not a daily beater.

If you have something of value then it is worth protecting.

You do carry insurance on your house and health too? At least for yo

[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 11-30-2021).]

pmbrunelle NOV 30, 08:10 PM

quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:
If you have something of value then it is worth protecting.

You do carry insurance on your house and health too? At least for yo



It's not really the value of the item that matters, it's more about your financial situation and how much money is "chump change" for you.

If you have a $20k Fiero, and $20k isn't much money for you, then don't get full coverage. Save your money, because on average, the house wins, and the player loses. If something happens, just take out $20k from your piggy bank and get another one.

Also note that insurance companies pay out in money... it can't bring back special one-off prototype parts, so there's no protection for those.

It only makes sense to pay for the cost of insurance when the loss of something would cause financial hardship, else it's wasted money.

I have insurance on my house, but that is only because I could not afford to rebuild it if it burns down. However, if I were fortunate enough that rebuilding a house would be a trivial expense, then I would skip the insurance.

[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 11-30-2021).]

hyperv6 NOV 30, 08:54 PM

quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:


It's not really the value of the item that matters, it's more about your financial situation and how much money is "chump change" for you.

If you have a $20k Fiero, and $20k isn't much money for you, then don't get full coverage. Save your money, because on average, the house wins, and the player loses. If something happens, just take out $20k from your piggy bank and get another one.

Also note that insurance companies pay out in money... it can't bring back special one-off prototype parts, so there's no protection for those.

It only makes sense to pay for the cost of insurance when the loss of something would cause financial hardship, else it's wasted money.

I have insurance on my house, but that is only because I could not afford to rebuild it if it burns down. However, if I were fortunate enough that rebuilding a house would be a trivial expense, then I would skip the insurance.




No it is about if you can for a minimal amount of money protect your investment by taking $286 a year out of my piggy bank to protect my $20k investment it is a smart investment as that is a low capital protection. Even the rich guys insure their Ferraris or Impalas.

As for the one off parts yesterday they can’t pie replaced but what I spent on them can be recovered.

Again if I can pay the same price to protect my investment and my liability for the same or less price vs just liability why would I not do that?

Even a local collector here that could afford his collection ten times over insures his collection and building. Several of his cars are worth over $3,000,000.

Most people piss away more than $285 on lottery tickets, cigarette’s and beer.

Do Fiero’s get stolen from this post yes. Do they suffer accidents and damage. We have a ton of post for that too. Do they burn well it like the media says but yes they do. So they get hit in floods ask the guy in Michigan. Tornados we got post on that too.

If you can protect your investment or replace it for a minimal cost it is a good idea to do so Ex specially if liability is included.

reinhart DEC 02, 04:44 AM

quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:


Like I said if you have a car not worth $285 a year that is fine.



I'm not going to pay $300 for a one-in-a-million probability. Do you also have lightning insurance in case you get struck by lightning you get $10,000 extra?

Let's do a simple example. Suppose I have 3 Fieros. Suppose they're worth $5000 but if I pay an extra $300 a year I can get agreed upon coverage for $20,000 for each Fiero. Okay that's now $900 / year to do that with all 3. And 5.5 years of no accidents and I can buy a replacement for one of my Fieros in uncrashed, unrepaired, like condition and that's ignoring the interest which would probably cut it down closer to 5 years.

It's not even about can I afford $300, it's is it a smart decision? And for the most part it isn't, at least for someone that isn't hyper risk averse. If you stay up at night thinking about one-in-a-million bad things that might happen to you and if this help you sleep then knock yourself out.
johnyrottin DEC 02, 10:15 AM
Let’s get back to the topic and leave insurance debates for some other forum area. Any word on the search for your car? What plans are in place if you can’t find it? Replacement?
Rsvl-Rider DEC 02, 01:52 PM

quote
Originally posted by johnyrottin:

Let’s get back to the topic and leave insurance debates for some other forum area. Any word on the search for your car? What plans are in place if you can’t find it? Replacement?




Thanks.

Not much to report. Still no video to look at. I asked my cop contact some pointed and direct questions about the investigation a few days ago. I guess he couldn't supply the answers and told me the case had been forwarded to the Regional Auto Theft Task Force. Sounds impressive right? It's just one guy in the Police Dept, but he is a detective. It seems the guy I been talking to was a "report taker".

I had a long talk with the new guy and gave him some details that the other guy had never put in the report. (Kinda pissed me off). Anyway I told him I would still insist on seeing the video that the previous guy had told me I would not be allowed to see. The detective said there was no rule against it and I could go and see it with him when (if) it ever comes in. (I'm really not liking the first guy now) Apparently they are not able to compel them to supply it it a timely manner (if ever). I suggested that the car may have been shipped out but was told that due to extreme port congestion and currently skyrocketing shipping rates this was an unlikely scenario. It's more likely it went to a chop shop. Personally I think it would be hard to make any money on stolen Fiero parts. I'm not sure where they find their customers but I scan Craigslist, Facebook marketplace and Ebay everyday.

Anyway, he was quite sympathetic and told me he would review the case, make sure it received new emphasis, and call me the next day. That would have been yesterday, but no call. There are no other cameras near enough to be useful so I know now that without that video there is nothing left to do but wait for someone to stumble over it someday.

In a somewhat bizarre side note... I had put a sign out on the sidewalk right after the theft. ( I posted a picture in this thread)
Night before last I was bringing it back in ( I don't leave it out overnight) when I noticed someone had placed some squares of red duct tape on the sign. One on the car image and one on the date. When I turned it around to see the other side I saw a large red arrow in the same red duct tape pointing down the street. On the chance someone is leaving me a clue I drove the street up and back that night and searched all the parking lots. Last night Jenny and I walked the street looking for any more red tape (breadcrumbs) but found nothing. Very strange...

As it happens, a Fiero acquaintance I had met several years ago heard about the theft and contacted Jenny. He has an 86 GT with a 3.4 and a Getrag 5 speed he has been thinking about selling. We saw and drove the car last night. It does have some issues but the price was right and we made the deal. Just need him to smog it now. It's not a replacement for the stolen car. I still have my stock 80K mile 87 GT that is my daily driver. This new car will be Jenny's replacement for the Formula she had before it developed rod knock and we had to get rid of it. She has a heavy foot and loves a driver's car. She has a 45 minute commute, so she will have a blast with this one.

[This message has been edited by Rsvl-Rider (edited 12-02-2021).]

Quadfather DEC 02, 07:32 PM
It sucks that you’re having to deal with this, but it sounds like at least there’s a bit of a silver lining. I’m still hoping the car will turn up intact.
reinhart DEC 03, 07:16 AM
I have a suggestion regarding what I would try myself to obtain the video. I'd send the business with the video a certified letter stating I am going to file a legal case against them for aiding and abetting a criminal by protecting the criminal activity and criminal's identity by not providing the video to the police investigating., and I am notifying them to preserve any video footage from that day. If they don't want to get involved in a legal case they can turn over the video to me. Then I'd send another certified letter to the property owner that I am planning to file a legal case against them for negligence by allowing crimes to occur in their lot and not protecting the vehicles parked there not detering criminal activity and refusing to provide to the police if I don't get a copy of the video in the next week. Most likely this is all I'd need to do to get some action.

Then if the business owner turns it over himself or the property owner pressures the business to provide the video I got it. If they don't I can file a small claims case against the businessy owner and file a subpeona for evidence from the business that has the video. The business would be legally compelled to provide the video in a timely fashion (a few weeks max). Even though I likely don't have much of a case against the property owner I'd try to argue in court that his refusal to cooperate with law enforcement in a timely fashion kept me from possibly getting my car back in one piece. Regardless, I can still get the video although it might cost $50 or whatever the small claims fee is.

I had a similar situation where an accident I was involved in was recorded by a businesses camera. It would and did clearly show the other party was at fault. They weren't going to turn the video over to me until I let them know that I would be subpoenaing the video from them which would be more costly for both of us and they gave me the video the next day.

Not a lawyer and so I don't give legal advice, just a suggestion as to what I'd do at this point if it were me.