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Hudini...from your unique perspective, thoughts on the new Chinese corona virus by maryjane
Started on: 01-22-2020 01:32 AM
Replies: 1379 (18229 views)
Last post by: maryjane on 05-18-2020 11:08 PM
blackrams
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Report this Post04-08-2020 11:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsClick Here to Email blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
'It's not fancy, but it works': Mississippi doctor uses garden hose, lamp timer and electronic valve to create makeshift ventilators

https://www.msn.com/en-us/n...hDwb?ocid=spartandhp

JACKSON, Miss. — As states across the country beg for ventilators to help patients suffering with respiratory issues from COVID-19, the University of Mississippi Medical Center is building its own makeshift ventilators with supplies found at a hardware store.

Dr. Charles Robertson, a UMMC pediatric anesthesiologist and the mastermind behind the idea, said he set out to make the "absolute simplest ventilator we can build with parts available in any city, you don't need special tools to put together and can be done quickly as the need arises."
Made with "primarily a garden hose, a lamp timer and electronic valve," the ventilator, named the Robertson Ventilator, for less than $100, can be assembled in approximately 20 to 30 minutes, meaning a dedicated team of four to five could produce nearly 100 in a day if needed, he said.
Demonstrating the functionality of the machine at a news conference Tuesday afternoon, Robertson turned on a ventilator hooked up to a mannequin. The mannequin's chest began to rise and fall.

The Robertson Ventilator: 'The brain behind the thing is actually a lamp timer'

While in-demand ventilators may go to states that are the highest bidder, Robertson noted the parts he gathered are from Home Depot and Lowe's.

"No one has been competing with me for those," he said.
As of Tuesday, UMMC staff had assembled 170 of the ventilators, Robertson said, doubling the hospital's capacity. They have parts to make 75 more.
Given the supplies involved and their wide availability, UMMC has "the ability to quickly manufacture any more if we need them," he said.
Dr. Richard Summers, associate vice chancellor for research for UMMC, addressed the shortage of conventional ventilators, saying, "as a contingency plan, we were looking for our state to be independent."

"The brain behind the thing is actually a lamp timer," he said. "It's not fancy but it works. This would be available as a last resort if the numbers increase as we think they might."

University of Mississippi Medical Center seeks FDA emergency authorization
The Robertson Ventilators have been tested and proven to be successful on both laboratory animals at UMMC and in simulation, Summers said, and "performed well, even in conditions that we would expect with COVID lung."
The hospital has applied for an Emergency Use Authorization from the Food and Drug Administration for the Robertson Ventilators, in the event the conventional ventilators are already in use.

Dr. Alan Jones, chair of emergency medicine, said UMMC currently has 80 to 90 conventional ventilators. As of Tuesday, almost 20 patients with COVID-19 and another 20 to 30 non-COVID patients are are on those ventilators.
"I do feel as though we are positioned ... that if we got to the point of needing this it's going to be a dire situation," he said.
Roberston said that if hospitals have the option, a commercially available ventilator should be used first, "but with a patient whose likely to die soon, this could be lifesaving."
"The role of this ventilator is if there's nothing else available," he said. "This is something that can be made quickly.
"The problems with the worst-case scenario is it will only come on very rapidly and apparent within a day or two that it's going to happen. We can build as many of these as patients to use them."

Whoever said "Sliced Bread" was the best idea to come along wasn't feeling a real need...…… I love it when a plan comes together...


Rams

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Tony Kania
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Report this Post04-08-2020 11:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Trained professionals need to operate a true ventilator. As people are "inventing" ventilators, there are thousands of actual machines sitting in wait. Actual tried and industry standard machines just sitting waiting to be used. Nobody in America is without access to a ventilator if needed. There are no ventilator waiting lists.

To be honest with you all, there are little to no patients at Sacred Heart Providence Medical Hospital. This is the hospital in Washington that first took in Chinavirus patients. Nursing staff is currently at TWO NURSES PER PATIENT. Nurses and Dr.s are questioning this pandemic. Again, those in charge of one of five Covid-19 response hospitals are twittleing their thumbs. Just something to ponder while we sit at home on lock down.
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Report this Post04-08-2020 12:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
700+ apparently died in NY yesterday. I was wondering if these were folks on respirators, or folks that didn't go the hospital or?
I know its slow many places because it hasn't spread that far, yet.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 04-08-2020).]

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maryjane
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Report this Post04-08-2020 12:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
GM has a 500 million dollar contract to build 30,00 ventilators. My math says that is right at $16,000 each.
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Report this Post04-08-2020 01:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

700+ apparently died in NY yesterday. I was wondering if these were folks on respirators, or folks that didn't go the hospital or?
I know its slow many places because it hasn't spread that far, yet.



My brother-in-law has friends in New York.
A relative of one of his friends got sick, and then got sicker. The hospital told him "Do not come here. We don't have room. We can't help you."
He's no longer with us.

So yeah...
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Report this Post04-08-2020 01:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:


My brother-in-law has friends in New York.
A relative of one of his friends got sick, and then got sicker. The hospital told him "Do not come here. We don't have room. We can't help you."
He's no longer with us.

So yeah...



So sorry.

As Americans, we need to work together better on the logistics of this. I believe there are packed hospitals. But, one of 5 infectious disease wards granted in the United States is not busy at the moment. I am not stirring shat, only speaking verifiable truths.

Still use precautions. This is happening.
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Report this Post04-08-2020 02:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
..

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 04-08-2020).]

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Report this Post04-08-2020 03:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:


My brother-in-law has friends in New York.
A relative of one of his friends got sick, and then got sicker. The hospital told him "Do not come here. We don't have room. We can't help you."
He's no longer with us.

So yeah...


Not good.
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Report this Post04-08-2020 05:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rsvl-RiderSend a Private Message to Rsvl-RiderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:


My brother-in-law has friends in New York.
A relative of one of his friends got sick, and then got sicker. The hospital told him "Do not come here. We don't have room. We can't help you."
He's no longer with us.

So yeah...


That is a very sad story.

Assuming he was a Chinavirus victim, if he was not tested and was not admitted, he is not counted among those infected or those that died. This is one of the reasons the official numbers can be misleading.

How many Wuhan Chinese died in their homes while under lock-down? We may never know, but you can bet they will never be counted in the official numbers.

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Report this Post04-08-2020 11:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
DoD released covid-19 data:
US Military 3,160 presumed cases 8 deaths 2,928 active cases 0 lab test results
(Presumed means diagnosis by symptoms)

Total military strength currently (active and reserves) is 2.26 million. 139 cases per 100,000 troops if my math is correct which is just slightly above what the data says about the rest of the US population...
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Report this Post04-09-2020 11:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwClick Here to Email cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by blackrams:
'It's not fancy, but it works': Mississippi doctor uses garden hose, lamp timer and electronic valve to create makeshift ventilators


Remember that breast pump your Mother used to feed you ?


 
quote
Originally posted by Rsvl-Rider:
Assuming he was a Chinavirus victim, if he was not tested and was not admitted, he is not counted among those infected or those that died. This is one of the reasons the official numbers can be misleading.


Another reason is there is no national standard for classifying a Covid19 case. I hear in some places that anything to do with Covid19 is reported as a Covid19 death. Just as some report an 80 year old and some celebrities died from "X" when it likely was old age or substance abuse.

Sorry Raydar. If you don't mind my asking, why did he not go to a hospital in another town ? I have heard of our hospital as full or near full.
We are a smaller community, 20,000, but testing kits seem o be readily available. Two persons in my domicile got testing in one day, results the second.
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Report this Post04-09-2020 04:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:

Sorry Raydar. If you don't mind my asking, why did he not go to a hospital in another town ?


Difficult to say. I don't know where in NY he was. Perhaps he was actually too sick to go any distance, by the time it was realized that he was that sick.
Doesn't make a lot of sense, but when you're freaking out, you don't always do the smartest thing. <shrug>
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Report this Post04-09-2020 07:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwClick Here to Email cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
EDIT

 
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:
... why did he not go to a hospital in another town ? I have NOT heard of our hospital as full or near full.


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Report this Post04-10-2020 09:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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Report this Post04-10-2020 10:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwClick Here to Email cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:
Difficult to say. I don't know where in NY he was.


Though I have been avoiding the news, I have heard that the Javitz Center was not needed in NYC, nor the US Navy's Comfort hospital ship. It seems as if they over estimated the number of ventilators they needed also.
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Report this Post04-10-2020 01:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageClick Here to Email williegoatSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Are we at the hump? Are we flattening the curve?

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Report this Post04-10-2020 02:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Perhaps so Willie. I do hope so. The initial projections were based on people going about life as usual, and not on most of America adhering to sound and basic anti-infection/anti-transmission protocols.

We may see another spike in the next day or so, as NYC announced yesterday they will today begin including those who died at home of suspected Covid19.

Yesterday Apr 9 data:
USA Total=468,566 cases. New cases=33,536+. Total deaths=16,690. New Deaths=1,899. New York's New Deaths=799
So far today, Apr 10 with the daily reporting period about 1/2 over:
USA Total=489,268 cases. New cases=20,702+. Total Deaths=18,015. New deaths= 1,325. New York's new Deaths= 777

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 04-10-2020).]

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Report this Post04-10-2020 02:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
We count COVID-19 deaths if one dies and has tested positive for the virus, no matter how severe the underlying conditions may be. Other countries do not follow this reporting protocol.

Our death count is skewed compared to other countries, making world-wide statistical analysis difficult, if not impossible.

[This message has been edited by olejoedad (edited 04-10-2020).]

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Report this Post04-10-2020 03:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So what about the rest of the US?
New York isn't going to be on the same timeline as say Cleveland, or Albuquerque.
Sometimes watching the news its like Hollywood movie stuff, for example, where only New York City and LA matter.

The overrunning of hospitals isn't happening in many places. Some counties in the US likely have no cases. (then theres cases that never get tested too)

I'm here in MN thinking, we wont be peaking for probably at least over a month after NY does.

Not to mention when people are back out on the loose, do they expect it to be gone, or start spreading again?

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 04-10-2020).]

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Report this Post04-10-2020 07:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Flattening the curve only means pushing the cases out over a longer timeline. It does not mean less cases. I believe the intent was only to not overwhelm the need for ventilators or beds. The only good news is that most people won't suffer the worst effects. However, it still feels like playing the roulette wheel.
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Report this Post04-10-2020 08:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

So what about the rest of the US?
New York isn't going to be on the same timeline as say Cleveland, or Albuquerque.
Sometimes watching the news its like Hollywood movie stuff, for example, where only New York City and LA matter.

The overrunning of hospitals isn't happening in many places. Some counties in the US likely have no cases. (then theres cases that never get tested too)

I'm here in MN thinking, we wont be peaking for probably at least over a month after NY does.

Not to mention when people are back out on the loose, do they expect it to be gone, or start spreading again?


Yeah..what about ME? I want to see some news about my county. Do we just not matter? Do I not matter?
I have totals from covid-19 envy....

BUT, MOST, of the rest of North America has already turned the curve.


https://www.ft.com/__origam...urce=next&width=1260
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Report this Post04-10-2020 08:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

Yeah..what about ME? I want to see some news about my county. Do we just not matter? Do I not matter?
I have totals from covid-19 envy....

https://www.ft.com/__origam...urce=next &width=1260



Don't feel bad, Don. Our forum friends in Aussie-land have had their entire country left off that list.

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Report this Post04-10-2020 08:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
FT couldn't figure out how to make an upside down graph?
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Report this Post04-10-2020 08:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

They didn't seem to have any issue with South American countries. Maybe something for Mad Max to rectify!
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Report this Post04-10-2020 09:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

Perhaps so Willie. I do hope so. The initial projections were based on people going about life as usual, and not on most of America adhering to sound and basic anti-infection/anti-transmission protocols.

We may see another spike in the next day or so, as NYC announced yesterday they will today begin including those who died at home of suspected Covid19.

Yesterday Apr 9 data:
USA Total=468,566 cases. New cases=33,536+. Total deaths=16,690. New Deaths=1,899. New York's New Deaths=799
So far today, Apr 10 with the daily reporting period about 1/2 over:
USA Total=489,268 cases. New cases=20,702+. Total Deaths=18,015. New deaths= 1,325. New York's new Deaths= 777



Looks like today's new cases and new deaths will exceed yesterday's US totals.
Nearly 34,000 new cases and over 2000 new deaths.

It is very possible tho, that this range of both will be the 'norm' for awhile ..a flat top of the the curve before the decrease.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 04-10-2020).]

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Report this Post04-11-2020 12:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwClick Here to Email cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:
The initial projections were based on people going about life as usual, and not on most of America adhering to sound and basic anti-infection/anti-transmission protocols.


I saw someone interviewed who said the same thing. When pressed that the projections did factor in mitigating procedures, he admitted so.
Of course there are / were many models. I do think the fear factor has / was stoked up quite a bit. If anything, to get people to comply.
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Report this Post04-11-2020 12:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
"Jesus rode into Jerusalem on an ass. Keep yours at home."


Sign that is currently at the entrance to a church parking lot. When I find a photo of it online, I'll post it. Probably just hasn't been time.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 04-11-2020).]

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Report this Post04-11-2020 12:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:

I do think the fear factor has / was stoked up quite a bit. If anything, to get people to comply.


It's a no-win situation for governing authorities. If the threat is underplayed, and there's a massive die-off, then the survivors will be irate. If instead, ridged precautions are enforced, and the hospitals end up not being overrun, then the populace will complain that the threat was blown out of proportion.

Pick your poison, but I'd prefer the latter scenario.

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Report this Post04-11-2020 12:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Patrick

29702 posts
Member since Apr 99
 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

"Jesus rode into Jerusalem on an ass. Keep yours at home."

Sign that is currently at the entrance to a church parking lot.



Now that's a cool congregation!

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Report this Post04-11-2020 02:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:


I saw someone interviewed who said the same thing. When pressed that the projections did factor in mitigating procedures, he admitted so.
Of course there are / were many models. I do think the fear factor has / was stoked up quite a bit. If anything, to get people to comply.

The initial models DID indeed factor in mitigating efforts, but had no real idea just how many US citizens would follow the recommendations. They knew from past epidemics and a couple of declared pandemics that some would take social distancing and quarantines seriously but many would and di not. CDC and federal agencies looked too, at social networks..boards like this one, twitter, FB etc and saw a lot of dismay and negative comments and assumed that t here would be large numbers of people that didn't take this seriously and made their models based on every data bit hey could find. Like most other apects of American society, when it gets down to the nut cuttin, most people do 'the right thing' simply because that is what America (and most other societies) do.

The models are updated continuously, based on new data, and once CDC and other federal and state agencies saw that social distancing was being mostly adhered to, and then the results of that distancing began tto show up as few cases and fewer deaths than originally assumed, they were able to modify downward the projections.

Look at it as similar to how NOAA and NHC now does hurricane path projections. I can remember when projections were very specific from a long way out. The storm "will make landfall in 3 days at XXXXXX city at XXXX time and day, as a category X storm". They were wrong so often that it was causing more deaths and un-needed evacuations some places and no evacuations where it turned out was needed. Now, they take a large view, with the current "cone of uncertainty" and a much longer time aspect with every day updates and model modifications as needed. Modeling for a pandemic is somewhat different tho, as you can't change a storm's path, timing or energy, but you can change how people prepare for and react to a nationwide pandemic.

I don't care a lot for NY Gov Coumo, but he put it pretty much on target.
 
quote
The experts the state talked with at Columbia University, McKinsey and elsewhere were asked to model something that had never been modeled before. Using their work to prepare the state was the right move, Cuomo said.

“They didn’t know how unified New Yorkers can be and how responsible they can be and how caring they are,” he said. “That’s what they couldn’t count in those models. They couldn’t count the spirit of New Yorkers (Americans)and the love of New Yorkers (Americans) to step up and do the right thing.

“That’s what they couldn’t figure out on their computers.”


How well do the recommendations work and how seriously do our fellow citizens step up to the plate?
Pretty good as far as I can tell. Walmart for instance has long wanted to drop their sewing and craft sections. They don't sell much of either, but as soon as the federal spokesman Dr. Anthony Fauci stated that he believed every American should wear some kind of mask in public, material, scissors, sewing needles, bias tape, rotary cutters and especially ELASTIC flew off the shelves like toilet paper did earlier. In fact, I saw emptiness on a lot of the sewing area at Walmart just a couple days ago, where 2 weeks earlier it was full. Elastic is now very difficult to find. Do a google search and you will see.
People WANT to do their part, and not out of fear, but simply because it's what we do. (most of us anyway)

I addressed this aspect from an American pov, but the same applies to most nations and their people as well.. It is I believe, in human nature to care about each other above all else regardless of nationality or lines on a map..
Lives are important..whose life it is is not.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 04-11-2020).]

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OldsFiero
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Report this Post04-11-2020 07:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for OldsFieroClick Here to Email OldsFieroSend a Private Message to OldsFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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So what about the rest of the US?
New York isn't going to be on the same timeline as say Cleveland, or Albuquerque.
Sometimes watching the news its like Hollywood movie stuff, for example, where only New York City and LA matter.


Good question. Maybe we could report here about our own location. I live in Delaware County, NY. Our population is 44,500 (30 people per sq mi). We have 37 confirmed cases, 2 deaths +5 more that were sent back to their county of residence(NYMA).
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Report this Post04-11-2020 08:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Cleveland Texas, San Jacinto County, 45 miles north of Houston. 1 case, 0 deaths, population as of 2017 census 7,904 with an estimated 2020 population of 8,231.

Cleveland Texas? Delaware County NY?

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Report this Post04-11-2020 09:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for OldsFieroClick Here to Email OldsFieroSend a Private Message to OldsFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Forgot to mention, of the 4 counties the local paper reports on there have not been any new cases since Thursday. A good sign? Our big concern here in the Catskills is that we're 3 1/2 hours from NYC and there are quite a few second home owners from there.
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Report this Post04-11-2020 09:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MidEngineManiacSend a Private Message to MidEngineManiacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If anyone needs elastic and can't get it, slice open some dollar store bungee cord. You got all the elastic you want.
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Report this Post04-11-2020 10:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
247 cases. 14 deaths. 514,631 people in county.

Spokane County has one of five infectious wards in the United States when this began. They took in the very first confirmed patients. Spokane County.

Stay safe. Family, Friends, Neighbors...
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Report this Post04-11-2020 02:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The next shortage item?
Women's home hair color products..........
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Report this Post04-11-2020 03:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for OldsFieroClick Here to Email OldsFieroSend a Private Message to OldsFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I guess I spoke to soon. 3 more cases here since Wednesday and another death. Surrounding counties also up; Otsego 7 more, Schoharie 1, Chenango 3.
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Originally posted by maryjane:

The next shortage item?
Women's home hair color products..........

Do you think that will be permanent?
Or can it be brushed off as just the latest wave?
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Report this Post04-11-2020 05:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Gawd willie, you're good!
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