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Hudini...from your unique perspective, thoughts on the new Chinese corona virus by maryjane
Started on: 01-22-2020 01:32 AM
Replies: 1388 (18665 views)
Last post by: USFiero on 11-17-2020 06:11 PM
Tony Kania
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Report this Post04-06-2020 02:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That is interesting Tony.

Here's something else...





It's just one day, but the flattening of the curve may be beginning for the USA..One can hope.
Evident in both new cases, and active cases for yesterday Apr 5. 8,880 fewer new cases yesterday than the day before.
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Report this Post04-06-2020 03:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It seems we need to wear masks now.

I am not going to be caught dead in a mask, is what I thought until today. I mentioned doing the shopping for us and others. Even found it odd that people are wearing masks. I will have one on when entering stores until further notice. I feel great, and get that my beard is not saving my azz, but it could help others if I were to be a carrier.
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Report this Post04-06-2020 03:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If anyone wants to look for what else could be online, in connection with that YouTube video that was posted at the top of this forum page.

WWFS?
Click to show

"COVID-19 Daily: Ventilator Protocols Questioned"
Alicia Gallegos for Medscape Medical News; April 05, 2020.
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/928160

 
quote
Cameron Kyle-Sidell, MD, a critical care physician working in New York City, has been sounding the alarm on Twitter, urging healthcare professionals to consider that COVID-19 acts less like typical acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS) and more like high-altitude pulmonary edema (HAPE). The bottom line, Kyle-Sidell said, is that the current use of ventilators may be causing lung injury in COVID-19 patients and that it may be time to consider lung-protective strategies that utilize lower pressure settings.

Kyle-Sidell is not the only one raising questions about the use of the ARDS paradigm in COVID-19 patients. In a letter to the editor published in the American Journal of Respiratory and Critical Care Medicine on March 30, Luciano Gattinoni, MD, of the Medical University of Göttingen in Germany, and colleagues noted that COVID-19 patients in intensive care units in northern Italy had an atypical ARDS presentation, namely well-preserved lung gas volume and severe hypoxemia. Gattinoni and colleagues suggest in the letter that instead of high positive end-expiratory pressure (PEEP), physicians should consider the lowest possible PEEP and gentle ventilation.
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Report this Post04-06-2020 09:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Good post, rinse.
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Report this Post04-06-2020 09:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwClick Here to Email cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:
Travel from one region/state to the other(s) was not curtailed at first. IOW, people from one area could infect people in other areas and the best defense was on an individual basis..sheltering in place.


I do understand the sentiment of the guidelines. Not all will behave responsibly. Instead of a blanket shelter in place, people who commute to affected ares have a higher duty to do so, and that should be stressed in any guidelines.

As far as the crisis peaking, that to me would be contingent with everyone having committed to the guidelines, which I know is not the case. They are still doing in person coverage of the Pesident's briefings. They are not safe ? Are we going to see a rash of truckers hospitalized ?

 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:
History, both relatively recent and older, has shown that economic 'damage' is pretty temporary. Most jobs due to coronavirus layoffs and furloughs will return and businesses will reopen. "The chief business of America is business"


I would think so. There might be a new reality on how business can be conducted, students can be schooled, and such. Many businesses spring up around larger businesses. It will be interesting and the President did start a new task force to get business back to normal.
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Report this Post04-06-2020 11:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here is my problem with this whole deal. No real info.

If you have sources that confront these questions in full please share.

Even the CDC and other legit sources statements are all qualified by "at this time we don't have any evidence of cases caused by" or " transmission via", etc. Everything is qualified basically by "we think" or "odds are reduced"
They talk an awful lot about keeping distance from other people, yet some people are treating groceries and take out food as if it is completely safe.

Our legit sources don't seem to know:

-if you can catch it twice in a relatively short period of time.
(which if you can the second time would be much worse after your system had revcently fought it off)

-if it transfers very well on certain surfaces
(other than: air 3 hours = SIGNIFICANT (filter in house air?), copper 4 hours, 24 hours cardboard (paper?), 72 hours metal and plastic (what temp?)
"Some studies on other coronaviruses, including Sars and Mers, found they can survive on metal, glass and plastic for as long as nine days, unless they are properly disinfected. "

-if it lasts longer on cold/frozen surfaces
(Think about your frozen food / packages.)

-if stomach acid kills it
(recent reports say it is in feces, so evidently it goes thru us and lives on)
https://www.livescience.com...d-through-feces.html
(how does this affect the water supply?) (Apparently boiling water is the only way to kill viruses.)

-If it actually lasts and how long floating through the air.
(recirculated air issues?)

-if it will lessen in summer

-if it will come back in the fall
(most say it will)

-if it will still be there, and re-spread if we stop staying home.
(seems logical it would)

-if a water rinse down doesnt get it off your hands without soap, why do I see recommendations of not washing many fresh foods with soap? We just stop eating them then?

many more

Seriously. They act like they are taking this seriously but it seems more like the answers to these questions would scare too many people, so they don't specify.

(My thoughts)

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 04-06-2020).]

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Report this Post04-06-2020 12:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
2.5. All legitimate concerns, but from the very start, CDC and WHO made it perfectly clear (or tried to) that this was a brand new set of circumstances that they knew very little about. It didn't help that so many people including some of the media blew it off as "just another type of influenza".

For the US, the first case presented on Jan 29 and the first confirmed death occurred about 2 weeks later. That's (just) 68 days to try to learn an awful lot. As one of the epidemiologists stated weeks ago "This is new for all of us. We're learning about it ........but it's 'learning' about us too"

I've had new cars that it took me longer than that to learn how to use all the gadgets and options on...and they came with a user manual..

It's just hard to get a model on..

https://fivethirtyeight.com...good-covid-19-model/

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 04-06-2020).]

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Report this Post04-06-2020 12:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Americans are a resilient bunch. We have been shut down for weeks now, and still no riots or crime waves, just a lot of funny crap on YouTube. The stock market seems to have stabilized (for now) at mid-2017 levels, still 10% above the best of the Obama economy.

We are doing OK and the purveyors of propaganda are no pleased. One "reporter"* has called for the shutdown of grocery stores. That just might cause social unrest.

A month ago, we were told that the TP shortage was temporary and caused by hoarders. Now we are being told that it is because of people staying home and that the supply of consumer packaged TP was strained. I am calling for a congressional hearing.



* "reporter" is in quotes because that is no longer an appropriate job description for many of their ilk

[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 04-06-2020).]

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Tony Kania
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Report this Post04-06-2020 12:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

Good post, rinse.



x2
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Report this Post04-06-2020 12:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

2.5. All legitimate concerns, but from the very start, CDC and WHO made it perfectly clear (or tried to) that this was a brand new set of circumstances that they knew very little about. It didn't help that so many people including some of the media blew it off as "just another type of influenza".

For the US, the first case presented on Jan 29 and the first confirmed death occurred about 2 weeks later. That's (just) 68 days to try to learn an awful lot. As one of the epidemiologists stated weeks ago "This is new for all of us. We're learning about it ........but it's 'learning' about us too"

I've had new cars that it took me longer than that to learn how to use all the gadgets and options on...and they came with a user manual..

It's just hard to get a model on..

https://fivethirtyeight.com...good-covid-19-model/



I understand its hard to get a model for how many will get it, how many will die, etc.

But does my logic make sense? :

Honestly in my opinion each individual member of the public doesn't need that "model" info though.

What they need is what they need to do to prevent themselves from getting and or spreading it.
That data, the only data that should be out there clear for every individual, much of it measurable, is so sporadic it is seemingly as reliable and open to interpretation as fake news.
Example:
The only reason we shouldn't have an idea how long it lasts on frozen surfaces is if it lasts longer than the number of weeks since someone could have put it on a frozen item, and it is still there alive/dormant at this time (as in isn't gone yet).

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 04-06-2020).]

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Report this Post04-06-2020 02:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:


I understand its hard to get a model for how many will get it, how many will die, etc.

But does my logic make sense? :

Honestly in my opinion each individual member of the public doesn't need that "model" info though.

What they need is what they need to do to prevent themselves from getting and or spreading it.
That data, the only data that should be out there clear for every individual, much of it measurable, is so sporadic it is seemingly as reliable and open to interpretation as fake news.
Example:
The only reason we shouldn't have an idea how long it lasts on frozen surfaces is if it lasts longer than the number of weeks since someone could have put it on a frozen item, and it is still there alive/dormant at this time (as in isn't gone yet).




With every doctor, nurse, healthcare worker either busy caring for the sick and dying, and researchers desperately trying to find an effective treatment, cure and/or vaccine, in addition to caring for the millions of non-covid cases, I would think that leaves precious few to do the kind of research you are asking for.
Frozen surfaces in the 2nd week of April are not much of a concern for most of America or it's healthcare workers and research community except in the frozen food sections of grocery stores.

It's like asking a fireman to specify what caused a house fire while they are still trying to put it out enough to be able to enter and get the people out of the burning building.

They can't even really determine how many die from it each day.

Right now:
19334 new cases and 851 new deaths in the United States

BUT, they also said:
 
quote
An estimated additional 180 - 195 deaths per day occurring at home in New York City due to COVID-19 are not being counted in the official figures. "Early on in this crisis we were able to swab people who died at home, and thus got a coronavirus reading. But those days are long gone. We simply don't have the testing capacity for the large numbers dying at home. Now only those few who had a test confirmation *before* dying are marked as victims of coronavirus on their death certificate. This almost certainly means we are undercounting the total number of victims of this pandemic," said Mark Levine, Chair of New York City Council health committee


And that, is just the uncounted in NYC.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 04-06-2020).]

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Report this Post04-06-2020 02:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Stay safe, follow protocols.

That being said, I take what we are being told with a grain of salt. Our "freedoms" are being stressed, and something in me believes this purposeful bending of the populace has an end game that does not bode well for us plebeians. Think for yourselves...

Again, nothing factual being posted. Only my opinions.
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Report this Post04-06-2020 02:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:
With every doctor, nurse, healthcare worker either busy caring for the sick and dying, and researchers desperately trying to find an effective treatment, cure and/or vaccine, in addition to caring for the millions of non-covid cases, I would think that leaves precious few to do the kind of research you are asking for.
Frozen surfaces in the 2nd week of April are not much of a concern for most of America or it's healthcare workers and research community except in the frozen food sections of grocery stores.

It's like asking a fireman to specify what caused a house fire while they are still trying to put it out enough to be able to enter and get the people out of the burning building.

They can't even really determine how many die from it each day.




Could save the lives of most of many not yet infected if theyd only test a few things.
Which is quite a LARGE percentage of the population.
Probably some private companies could do it if all the CDCs resources are tapped....
I can't honestly be the only one asking these questions can I?

I know quite a few people use the frozen foods in grocery stores, not to mention refrigerated, which could be longer than the room temp surfaces. I mean everybody eats, and very few raise their own food.

Plus that was just one example.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 04-06-2020).]

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Report this Post04-06-2020 03:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
"It's a big 'poop' sandwich and we're all going to have to take a bite"
The current effort is targeting prevention in spreading the virus and they are doing the best they can with the data that they've been able to compile in the last 3 months.
You almost sound as if you think no research is being conducted. There simply isn't the resources available to look into every aspect of transmission, and it takes more than just 1 or 2 tests to make a viable and accurate assessment.
It's safe to assume virus present on cool or frozen surfaces can still be viable days or weeks after being deposited there.
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Report this Post04-06-2020 03:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

It's safe to assume virus present on cool or frozen surfaces can still be viable days or weeks after being deposited there.


I agree. Which is not being stated anywhere. Which I think is a big mistake.

Here is an example of what the CDC / USDA / FDA says:

"Q: Are food products produced in the United States and exported a risk for the spread of COVID-19?

A: No. There is no evidence to suggest that food produced in the United States can transmit COVID-19. Additionally, currently there is no evidence of food or food packaging being associated with transmission of COVID-19."

-

"Q: Can I become sick with coronavirus (COVID-19) from food?

A: We are not aware of any reports at this time of human illnesses that suggest COVID-19 can be transmitted by food or food packaging. However, it is always important to follow good hygiene practices (i.e., wash hands and surfaces often, separate raw meat from other foods, cook to the right temperature, and refrigerate foods promptly) when handling or preparing foods."

https://www.usda.gov/coronavirus

Really? So no need to wash the plastic containers or anything? Wouldn't that be the general publics take on what they just said?

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 04-06-2020).]

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Report this Post04-06-2020 03:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Handle/Open package
Wash hands

Doh
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Report this Post04-06-2020 03:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That's not what I got out of it.
Basically said to use the same common sense we have always used against any other virus particle or bacteria.
CDC (and other agencies such as FDA/USDA/FSIS) assume most of America has at least some 'basic' safe food handling protocols.
It's a given, that even before this particular pathogen appeared, that the meat and other refrigerated/frozen products and their packaging had been handled multiple times by an unknown number of people before we each picked it up and put it in our shopping carts.

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Report this Post04-06-2020 04:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I assume I would have Covid 19 living in my freezer and refrigerator (for example), and anything else it or I touched on my way to the fridge /pantry if I didnt wash each thing before I put it in there though? New mouthwash jug for the bathroom? Cat food bag? THe outside of the sanitizer container?

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 04-06-2020).]

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Report this Post04-06-2020 04:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

2.5

41196 posts
Member since May 2007
Bank robber? Thug? Mugger? Just another citizen following CDC recommendations? You be the judge
Covid, making disguising your identity mainstream.

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Report this Post04-06-2020 04:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

Bank robber? Thug? Mugger? Just another citizen following CDC recommendations? You be the judge
Covid, making disguising your identity mainstream.



On their way to buy groceries?



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Report this Post04-06-2020 07:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

And that, is just the uncounted in NYC.



How many would have died anyway? This is where the fear comes in. We cannot just say "in addition to all the other deaths" because many would die anyway even if they didn't have the virus. Hell 1700 people die everyday from heart disease alone. What I want to know is how many young healthy people are dying from this virus. And why? Are ventilators not working?
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Report this Post04-07-2020 09:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

On their way to buy groceries?





Could be Antifa on their way to get groceries, yours
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Report this Post04-07-2020 09:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:



Could be Antifa on their way to get groceries, yours


Bring it on.
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Report this Post04-07-2020 12:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

On their way to buy groceries?





The irony. Literally a group of left leaning voters set on "riot".
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Report this Post04-07-2020 12:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Tony Kania:
The irony. Literally a group of left leaning voters set on "riot".


Numbers (fractions; percentages) of "uniformed" and "active" Antifa members that vote regularly in state and national elections?

For the "Rose City" (Portland, OR) Antifa chapter? For other Antifa chapters or regionally-defined groupings?

I don't know myself. I have no particular idea.


"Questions are the Answer."

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 04-07-2020).]

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Report this Post04-07-2020 12:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I do not have those numbers Rinselberg. But, I am sure that if you were truly interested, you could easily find them.

This Chinavirus has now shut down schooling. Is it President Trump's fault? Trudeau's? No, it is China's fault for this happening. China caused this. Not you, Patrick, or even my President supporting azz. China did this.
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Report this Post04-07-2020 02:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FatsClick Here to Email FatsSend a Private Message to FatsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:


Numbers (fractions; percentages) of "uniformed" and "active" Antifa members that vote regularly in state and national elections?

For the "Rose City" (Portland, OR) Antifa chapter? For other Antifa chapters or regionally-defined groupings?

I don't know myself. I have no particular idea.


"Questions are the Answer."





I don't know how many of them vote, but I'm certain that for the ones that do, it's multiple times.

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Report this Post04-07-2020 03:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Tony Kania:

The irony.


Explain the "irony" to me.

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Report this Post04-07-2020 03:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

Explain the "irony" to me.



 
quote
Originally posted by Tony Kania:


The irony. Literally a group of left leaning voters set on "riot".



Nothing you posted offended me there. Or you. I commented on the antifa faqs.

[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 04-07-2020).]

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Patrick
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Report this Post04-07-2020 03:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by Tony Kania:

Nothing you posted offended me there.


Nor should it have. It was simply a joke in reference to wearing face masks. Nothing more, nothing less. Your "irony" comment made no sense.

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williegoat
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Report this Post04-07-2020 03:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by Patrick:

It was simply a joke in reference to wearing face masks.


I thought it was funny.
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Report this Post04-07-2020 04:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by williegoat:

I thought it was funny.


Thanks, that was my intent. We need some levity in these trying times!


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Report this Post04-07-2020 06:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It is/was comical. No doubt about it. I appreciate the levity.

I thought the irony was self evident? A group of losers rioting in regards to grocery shoppers. My words were not an attack on you, nor did I take yours as one on me. Honest.
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Report this Post04-07-2020 06:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JonesySend a Private Message to JonesyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post




Heading out too the store! Let me know if you guys want anything!



Hmmmm, not much traffic today.. Wonder why?
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Report this Post04-07-2020 07:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Pay attention to what this graphic looks like now. Tomorrow's updated version, is going to look completely different and some people are going to be shocked at the abrupt change.



Ok, (edit) it's out:

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 04-07-2020).]

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Report this Post04-08-2020 02:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageClick Here to Email randyeSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Jonesy:


Heading out too the store! Let me know if you guys want anything!



Thanks but we're fine.

Just got back from Walmart

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 04-08-2020).]

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Report this Post04-08-2020 11:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by Jonesy:


Hmmmm, not much traffic today..


That is a plus, Minneapolis traffic has been great on the work commute!

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Report this Post04-08-2020 11:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Jonesy:


Heading out too the store! Let me know if you guys want anything!



Hmmmm, not much traffic today.. Wonder why?



But we only have one dose
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