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Hudini...from your unique perspective, thoughts on the new Chinese corona virus by maryjane
Started on: 01-22-2020 01:32 AM
Replies: 1379 (18225 views)
Last post by: maryjane on 05-18-2020 11:08 PM
ray b
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Report this Post03-26-2020 10:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ray bClick Here to Email ray bSend a Private Message to ray bEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
because our govenator is an idiot and has no clue
he did not shut down the spring breakers in time
and is letting city and county mayors decide what to shut down when
no over all state orders
very weak leadership that will cost lives


btw NO heat [normal 80+ deg temp] doesNOT slow the cv-19 spread here
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randye
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Report this Post03-26-2020 11:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageClick Here to Email randyeSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ray b:

because our govenator is an idiot and has no clue
he did not shut down the spring breakers in time
and is letting city and county mayors decide what to shut down when
no over all state orders
very weak leadership that will cost lives


btw NO heat [normal 80+ deg temp] doesNOT slow the cv-19 spread here


You babbling, burned out, Buffoon.

The beaches are closed.

The spring break kids are gone.

STILL no screaming by Florida for MORE MORE MORE....especially ventilators or military medical ships like NY Governor Cuomo is whining about.

You believe that Governor DeSantis is your problem and that Florida would be so much better right now with your fellow Leftist, Andrew Gillum.

Here HE is passed out, naked, in his own vomit, and found with a homosexual prostitute in a Miami motel room full of meth and other drugs....

...DURING THIS EMERGENCY

THIS is what you brain dead Leftists wanted as Florida's governor:



You moron Leftists are so predictable.....and such scum

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 03-27-2020).]

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Report this Post03-26-2020 11:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ray b:
btw NO heat [normal 80+ deg temp] doesNOT slow the cv-19 spread here

I have heard a few different times that what causes these influenza-like virus infections to subside during the warmer months is UV. Higher sun angles during the daytime means that UV radiation has a more direct path to the earth's surface, and it's the seasonal increase in UV radiation impinging upon the earth's surface and all of the cityscapes, suburban municipalities and agrarian and rural hectares (including national, state and country level parks and wilderness areas) that kills or neutralizes the virus.

But I do "run on."

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 03-26-2020).]

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MidEngineManiac
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Report this Post03-27-2020 12:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MidEngineManiacSend a Private Message to MidEngineManiacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So who is all going ?

[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 03-27-2020).]

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Hudini
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Report this Post03-27-2020 01:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
We do know that UV light kills viruses. We also know that the flu and cold "season" is winter. If it's UV that kills this virus then great.

Now does a black light kills viruses? Those are UV but normally not very strong. Finds oil leaks well enough.
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maryjane
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Report this Post03-27-2020 01:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MadMark:

And here is an article that kind of highlights what the article I posted before had to say. Huge difference between 500K deaths and 20K or less. While 20K is nothing to sneeze at it has to be looked at in the context of how many deaths are due to the normal flu and our response to that. And do we shut down the world because of the normal flu. Or is the trend now to shut down the world because someone might possibly die? If so do we quit driving cars? Or flying on airplanes? Or doing anything? And what would be the cost in lives if we just shut down the economy? If you think that won't end up costing lives, you have no idea of how the world works.

So, you're advocating putting everyone back to work and letting the chips fall?

You get to pick the 20,000 that are going to die and inform their families.
As far as Ican discern, all this distancing and temporarily closed businesses began not quite 3 weeks ago.
We have military that have been deploying to hellish places all over the mideast living in conditions that most of us would find deplorable..while getting shot at too and even those that aren't, are often at sea for months, or in countries with a lot less than what we have here. My own parents went thru both the great depression and the rationing of WW2 without blinking an eye and we as a nation can't even make it 3 weeks of not working, or eating out at our favorite restaurants and doing without extra toilet paper without being ready to sacrifice 20,000 of our fellow citizens?
And we have the nerve to castigate millennials for living with their parents? They aren't the pussies...we are.
We think this is the greatest country on Earth and we can't make the smallest of sacrifices?

When I see people saying we should just chuck it in and take our losses, and then think of all the sacrifices I made in 9 years of military for this country, and remember my friends that didn't make it back or made it back missing parts, I wonder why the hell we even bothered.


Me Me Me Me Me me me me me me.

The country will bounce back just as it did after the civil war, just as it did after both world wars, just as it did after 911, and we don't and shouldn't have to sacrifice thousands to do it this time.
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Report this Post03-27-2020 05:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwClick Here to Email cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:
I never used a ventilator.


Thinking about it I believe I am wrong. Four times a day I had breathing treatments. The same oxygen which was fed by tube to my nose (2 psi) also was hooked to a machine which gave me the treatments.

I guess it would be a respiratory therapist who would inject a medicine in it and I was fitted with a nose/mouth mask to breath the medicine. They were only 15-20 minute sessions. I was moved too many times and every room had one (perhaps I was only moved to pulmonary rooms). They were on stands on wheels like mobile IV stands are. I don't see how they could not be used on multiple people.

I wonder what medicine they are using for the Corona virus in the ventilators. Surely they are not using them as iron lungs.

 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
Governor Andrew Cuomo calmly explaining the use of ventilators...


My treatment also consisted of antibiotics. I again wonder what antibiotics are being used for the Corona virus. Maybe that is the problem with not recovering and prolonged use of the same ventilators on one patient, causing a shortage of ventilators.

 
quote
Originally posted by randye:
Cliff, Don't be fooled by LEFTIST BULLSHIT involving a hack like Cuomo.


Not to worry. I am familiar with him.
I am tired of listening to non stop Covid 19 news and tune out. I have seen him hold regular pressers on Fox News and elsewhere. I was wondering why he was the face of reason for the nation.

 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

So, you're advocating putting everyone back to work and letting the chips fall?

You get to pick the 20,000 that are going to die and inform their families.


I also saw Lt Gov Abbots comments and thought they had merit. At least for large swaths of the country. We didn't start stop working until it became an issue and there are many places where it is not.
Also, per your shortage post about stores not having ample future stock, many people depend on the very next check when the money has ran out, just as stores restocked just before they run out. That 20,000 number you mention could easily be people willing to take the risk. Perhaps that should be regulated in heavily populated areas but I can see opening up the country quite a bit. Close sections if the need presents itself, just as they adjusted group size and social distancing.

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MadMark
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Report this Post03-27-2020 09:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MadMarkClick Here to Email MadMarkSend a Private Message to MadMarkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

So, you're advocating putting everyone back to work and letting the chips fall?

You get to pick the 20,000 that are going to die and inform their families.
As far as Ican discern, all this distancing and temporarily closed businesses began not quite 3 weeks ago.
We have military that have been deploying to hellish places all over the mideast living in conditions that most of us would find deplorable..while getting shot at too and even those that aren't, are often at sea for months, or in countries with a lot less than what we have here. My own parents went thru both the great depression and the rationing of WW2 without blinking an eye and we as a nation can't even make it 3 weeks of not working, or eating out at our favorite restaurants and doing without extra toilet paper without being ready to sacrifice 20,000 of our fellow citizens?
And we have the nerve to castigate millennials for living with their parents? They aren't the pussies...we are.
We think this is the greatest country on Earth and we can't make the smallest of sacrifices?

When I see people saying we should just chuck it in and take our losses, and then think of all the sacrifices I made in 9 years of military for this country, and remember my friends that didn't make it back or made it back missing parts, I wonder why the hell we even bothered.


Me Me Me Me Me me me me me me.

The country will bounce back just as it did after the civil war, just as it did after both world wars, just as it did after 911, and we don't and shouldn't have to sacrifice thousands to do it this time.


I am certainly surprised by your response here maryjane.

I will try to answer what you have posted in some semblance of order.

First: "So, you're advocating putting everyone back to work and letting the chips fall?"

No I am not. That is a gross distortion of what I have said so far. There are areas of this country that are badly infected and a whole lot that are not. It is not and cannot be a black and white solution. There has to different ways to deal with it for the various areas.

Second: "You get to pick the 20,000 that are going to die and inform their families."

No not at all. Who dies and who lives as always depends not on me or you, but on God, in my case, or fate, or the devil, or whatever you think causes death in this world every day. That is not going to change. I have a question to ask you then. At what point do you suggest we go back to work? At what point is it alright to let some die so all the rest may live? Is it 1000 deaths in a year? 100 deaths in a year? 10 deaths in a year? Or can we not suffer one death in a year due to this virus?

Going along with that, whatever point you pick how long will it take to get there? Another week? A month? A year? 10 years? How long can we as a country sustain that? And as a world too? How long before our infrastructure dies out? How long before the suicides exceed the death rate of the virus? How long before we can live free again?

Third: "As far as Ican discern, all this distancing and temporarily closed businesses began not quite 3 weeks ago.
We have military that have been deploying to hellish places all over the mideast living in conditions that most of us would find deplorable..while getting shot at too and even those that aren't, are often at sea for months, or in countries with a lot less than what we have here. My own parents went thru both the great depression and the rationing of WW2 without blinking an eye and we as a nation can't even make it 3 weeks of not working, or eating out at our favorite restaurants and doing without extra toilet paper without being ready to sacrifice 20,000 of our fellow citizens?
And we have the nerve to castigate millennials for living with their parents? They aren't the pussies...we are.
We think this is the greatest country on Earth and we can't make the smallest of sacrifices?"


You certainly packed a lot in this one. You talk about service to country. Well, sir you are not the only one who has served. I have too. I put my life on the line too. And there are hundreds of thousands of American youth to middle age who are now serving. They don't get to decide to isolate and hide from the virus. Do you really think that an air craft carrier with over 3500 of our young men and women on it can isolate and keep away from each other like we are told to? Already we have heard of cases of this virus on board one of our air craft carriers and now the military has shut down information about how many and where the affected are, because it makes sense to not inform our enemies if we have a problem. After all you have seen in your 70 plus years, you really think China, or Russia or Iran or many other groups and countries would not take advantage our temporary weakness? I certainly don't trust our historical enemies. Do you?

As to the depression, my parents both went through it too. And no one that I know of is advocating we just blatantly give up and completely return to work today. So that is a distortion to the reality of what we face. Like I said before it is not an either or proposition.

It is not just 3 weeks, going by what you have said here we continue on indefinitely. As to your reference to 20,000 of your fellow citizens, have we not suffered that kind of loss every year? More than that have died this year alone due to the regular flu. Why are we so much more afraid of this Covid-19 flu? Are we that much of, in your words, pussies that we cannot carry on?

And speaking of sacrifices, is it a sacrifice to sit at home on our butts, while our world and the economy falls down around us? How do we recover if our whole world goes into a steep depression? And wars break out? And our infrastructure is destroyed? How many people will die if we do not get back to work fairly soon? Can you even count that toll?

Just at what point do you suggest we get out of our trenches and attack this problem? Do we have to wait until the government can guarantee that no one will die from Covid-19? I certainly don't think that is a viable or reasonable thing to do.

Finally: "We think this is the greatest country on Earth and we can't make the smallest of sacrifices?

When I see people saying we should just chuck it in and take our losses, and then think of all the sacrifices I made in 9 years of military for this country, and remember my friends that didn't make it back or made it back missing parts, I wonder why the hell we even bothered."


As I said before, you are not the only one on here who served in the military. You are not the only one who lost friends due to war. Your appeal to emotions is just that, an appeal to emotions and not to logic.

And this last little bit about sacrifices, is just puff. We have to somehow in this world where death and destruction lie in wait all around us, make some choices and do the best we can for the largest number of people. We cannot nor will we ever be able to say, we can now go on since we will not lose anyone else. To believe we can is utter foolishness. We at some point need to make a decision and it will take real sacrifices, not vapid sit on your ass ones. We might disagree as to the timing of when this will be, but we do need to make a decision.
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Lambo nut
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Report this Post03-27-2020 09:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Lambo nutSend a Private Message to Lambo nutEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Boondawg:


I see your well-known maturity level hasn't hindered your minimal intellect from once again showing itself.

"Us & Them" must be the simplest program a limited brain can run.
And popular, as it seems to be a favorite around here...


And there you go...reacting.
Fruck you, loser!
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MidEngineManiac
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Report this Post03-27-2020 10:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MidEngineManiacSend a Private Message to MidEngineManiacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
https://www.facebook.com/gr...ink/692068661529153/

You might have to login to see it, the phone won't let me copy-paste the post.
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LitebulbwithaFiero
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I don't think the goal is to isolate till no one will die from this.

I think the goal is to isolate till we feel like we can say no one will die because we couldn't even try to help them.

Don't fear the reaper, but respect that he is always after you
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MidEngineManiac
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Report this Post03-27-2020 10:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MidEngineManiacSend a Private Message to MidEngineManiacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That didn't take all that long

https://summit.news/2020/03...o-fight-coronavirus/

Could have seen that one coming from a mile away.
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Report this Post03-27-2020 10:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwClick Here to Email cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MidEngineManiac:
Could have seen that one coming from a mile away.


 
quote

Brown wants international organizations like the WHO and the UN to be given executive powers that would supersede national sovereignty as part of a new system overseen by world leaders and health experts.


Until the UN military can whip the military of the USA, not gonna happen.
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Report this Post03-27-2020 11:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MadMarkClick Here to Email MadMarkSend a Private Message to MadMarkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:


Until the UN military can whip the military of the USA, not gonna happen.


I totally agree. As one of the Democrats said, why waste a crisis. Or something like that. And we should be very wary of any of those Elitist idiots trying to "temporarily" take over with a world government. Just how do you think that would work out or ever be returned to normal.
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Report this Post03-27-2020 11:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MadMark:


I am certainly surprised by your response here maryjane.

I will try to answer what you have posted in some semblance of order.

First: "So, you're advocating putting everyone back to work and letting the chips fall?"

No I am not. That is a gross distortion of what I have said so far. There are areas of this country that are badly infected and a whole lot that are not. It is not and cannot be a black and white solution. There has to different ways to deal with it for the various areas.

Second: "You get to pick the 20,000 that are going to die and inform their families."

No not at all. Who dies and who lives as always depends not on me or you, but on God, in my case, or fate, or the devil, or whatever you think causes death in this world every day. That is not going to change. I have a question to ask you then. At what point do you suggest we go back to work? At what point is it alright to let some die so all the rest may live? Is it 1000 deaths in a year? 100 deaths in a year? 10 deaths in a year? Or can we not suffer one death in a year due to this virus?

Going along with that, whatever point you pick how long will it take to get there? Another week? A month? A year? 10 years? How long can we as a country sustain that? And as a world too? How long before our infrastructure dies out? How long before the suicides exceed the death rate of the virus? How long before we can live free again?

Third: "As far as Ican discern, all this distancing and temporarily closed businesses began not quite 3 weeks ago.
We have military that have been deploying to hellish places all over the mideast living in conditions that most of us would find deplorable..while getting shot at too and even those that aren't, are often at sea for months, or in countries with a lot less than what we have here. My own parents went thru both the great depression and the rationing of WW2 without blinking an eye and we as a nation can't even make it 3 weeks of not working, or eating out at our favorite restaurants and doing without extra toilet paper without being ready to sacrifice 20,000 of our fellow citizens?
And we have the nerve to castigate millennials for living with their parents? They aren't the pussies...we are.
We think this is the greatest country on Earth and we can't make the smallest of sacrifices?"


You certainly packed a lot in this one. You talk about service to country. Well, sir you are not the only one who has served. I have too. I put my life on the line too. And there are hundreds of thousands of American youth to middle age who are now serving. They don't get to decide to isolate and hide from the virus. Do you really think that an air craft carrier with over 3500 of our young men and women on it can isolate and keep away from each other like we are told to? Already we have heard of cases of this virus on board one of our air craft carriers and now the military has shut down information about how many and where the affected are, because it makes sense to not inform our enemies if we have a problem. After all you have seen in your 70 plus years, you really think China, or Russia or Iran or many other groups and countries would not take advantage our temporary weakness? I certainly don't trust our historical enemies. Do you?

As to the depression, my parents both went through it too. And no one that I know of is advocating we just blatantly give up and completely return to work today. So that is a distortion to the reality of what we face. Like I said before it is not an either or proposition.

It is not just 3 weeks, going by what you have said here we continue on indefinitely. As to your reference to 20,000 of your fellow citizens, have we not suffered that kind of loss every year? More than that have died this year alone due to the regular flu. Why are we so much more afraid of this Covid-19 flu? Are we that much of, in your words, pussies that we cannot carry on?

And speaking of sacrifices, is it a sacrifice to sit at home on our butts, while our world and the economy falls down around us? How do we recover if our whole world goes into a steep depression? And wars break out? And our infrastructure is destroyed? How many people will die if we do not get back to work fairly soon? Can you even count that toll?

Just at what point do you suggest we get out of our trenches and attack this problem? Do we have to wait until the government can guarantee that no one will die from Covid-19? I certainly don't think that is a viable or reasonable thing to do.

Finally: "We think this is the greatest country on Earth and we can't make the smallest of sacrifices?

When I see people saying we should just chuck it in and take our losses, and then think of all the sacrifices I made in 9 years of military for this country, and remember my friends that didn't make it back or made it back missing parts, I wonder why the hell we even bothered."


As I said before, you are not the only one on here who served in the military. You are not the only one who lost friends due to war. Your appeal to emotions is just that, an appeal to emotions and not to logic.

And this last little bit about sacrifices, is just puff. We have to somehow in this world where death and destruction lie in wait all around us, make some choices and do the best we can for the largest number of people. We cannot nor will we ever be able to say, we can now go on since we will not lose anyone else. To believe we can is utter foolishness. We at some point need to make a decision and it will take real sacrifices, not vapid sit on your ass ones. We might disagree as to the timing of when this will be, but we do need to make a decision.

I think you and many others have already made that decision.
And again, you are the one that gets to pick. Enjoy it when you cash your pay check. I won't have any part of it.
I'm not the one saying people should go back to work, even in my little area where as far as I know, only one person has tested positive for Covid19.
I never said I was the only one that served either.
I never said or implied 'indefinitely' either..that, is something you chose to infer. (I personally, in my layman's opinion, suspect that 4- 6 weeks would be sufficient or until the infection curve is mostly flattened out.)


People are still trying to compare this to auto accidents, influenza and anything else in order to minimize the seriousness of risk.
Don't compare it TO those unrelated factors..add it TO them.

I saw a graphic a couple of days ago that showed approx 200 people/day died from influenza last winter in the US. For the last 3 days, we have exceeded that in daily deaths from Covid-19. The curve will flatten for us, just as it did in China, South Korea and everywhere else these protocols were implemented and adhered to.. reports out of Italy say a LOT of people there are ignoring the separation and lockdown protocols, so it will likely take them longer to see the results other nations have seen..


If we can't do this for a few weeks, then we were never much of a people or nation to begin with and certainly not to the level our parent's generation was. We've become soft, self absorbed and selfish.


People try to say "This is not about money..it's about the country!"

It's always about money.
That and our own little insignificant lives being able to go where we want and do the little bs things we have taken for granted for so long.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 03-27-2020).]

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MidEngineManiac
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Report this Post03-27-2020 11:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MidEngineManiacSend a Private Message to MidEngineManiacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This one is a really good read. Strong analysis in favor of nothing burger.

https://www.the-lighthouse....-virus-known-to-man/
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Report this Post03-27-2020 02:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MadMark:

I am certainly surprised by your response here maryjane.

Your appeal to emotions is just that, an appeal to emotions and not to logic.



Rather insulting, to say the least.

Are the following two statements of yours an appeal to "logic"?

 
quote
Originally posted by MadMark:

Who dies and who lives as always depends not on me or you, but on God, in my case, or fate, or the devil, or whatever you think causes death in this world every day. That is not going to change.

We have to somehow in this world where death and destruction lie in wait all around us, make some choices and do the best we can for the largest number of people.





If life and death have already been predetermined by God or fate, and "that is not going to change", why even bother fretting about "choices" and their consequences?

This is your logic? I think I'll listen to MJ.
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Report this Post03-27-2020 02:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MadMarkClick Here to Email MadMarkSend a Private Message to MadMarkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
If life and death have already been predetermined by God or fate, and "that is not going to change", why even bother fretting about "choices" and their consequences?

This is your logic? I think I'll listen to MJ.


Well, isn't that sweet. Patrick attacks me again. I guess everyone needs to agree with him.

Sorry bub, I dont agree with you. Get over your self.
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Report this Post03-27-2020 02:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That's a long article (from MidEngineManiac.)

I subjected it to a simple text string search. These are text strings that my Safari browser's text string finder did not find within the article:
  • lung
  • intub (intubate, intubation)
  • ven (ventilate, ventilator)

What's my point?

I see a line of investigation that would be useful for the (anticipated) Coronavirus Commission to evaluate the merit of the article and its ideas and recommendations.

I don't have enough information to reach the end of that line of investigation myself.

Of the patients who have already been intubated and treated with lung ventilators, is there a pattern where such a patient either recovers fairly rapidly (within just a "few" days) or failing that, then is unlikely to recover, regardless of the number of additional days of ventilator treatment that are provided for them?

The information surely exists, but I don't have it, myself.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 03-27-2020).]

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Patrick
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Report this Post03-27-2020 02:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MadMark:

Well, isn't that sweet. Patrick attacks me again. I guess everyone needs to agree with him.

Sorry bub, I dont agree with you. Get over your self.



"attacks"???

This is a forum, Mark. It's a place to ask questions and to exchange thoughts and ideas.
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Report this Post03-27-2020 02:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MadMarkClick Here to Email MadMarkSend a Private Message to MadMarkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

"attacks"???

This is a forum, Mark. It's a place to ask questions and to exchange thoughts and ideas.


Patrick. It is a forum and I have been sharing my ideas, and you seem to take issue with my ideas and my take on things. Instead of challenging my ideas and refuting them you just attack what I say. How about some discussion on your side? How about thinking instead of reacting?

What is your plan? Do you have one? Have you even thought about where to go or how you will get there?
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Report this Post03-27-2020 02:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
But there's another factor to consider (picking up from where I just left off a few minutes ago.)

Anti-viral treatments for Covid-19 are already being tested. That could change the calculations in terms of how to triage patients, considering the numbers of ventilators that can be made available during each future day.

My thinking is that the availability of ventilators is the most severe of the various constraints that are impacting upon the amount and quality of treatment that is available.

I got that idea from the news (or news-style) coverage that I have selected for myself.
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Report this Post03-27-2020 02:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

"attacks"???

This is a forum, Mark. It's a place to ask questions and to exchange thoughts and ideas.



 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

If nothing else, you're consistent.



 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

You're such a joke, Tony.



 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

You owe it to yourself to get some help.



 
quote
Mark, you mistake me for someone with a political agenda, such as your own. I don't "root" for any ideology. You're so self-centered on American politics, that you don't seem to comprehend that a global response is required to subdue this pandemic. It's not all about Trump.

Poor little Tony... always the victim. You enter a thread, mouth off with your usual BS, and then pout when you get a response. Any "hate" you receive is justly deserved. Perhaps you should go sit for awhile in one of those "cry closets" you're always offering to build for people you love to ridicule here. Get some help Tony, before you go completely over the edge.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 03-26-2020).]



 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

Why, because I refuse to play the blame game with you? You have your priorities, and I just don't happen to share them.

This is the reason why I don't participate in political threads. Total waste of time.

I thought this was supposed to be a thread about a world-wide health crisis, not American politics. Silly me.



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Report this Post03-27-2020 02:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Maybe I need to step back from my ventilator-related thoughts and (pun intended) draw a deep breath, to allow for the possibility that I have put myself on a sidetrack that leads away from even more important constraints and considerations.
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Report this Post03-27-2020 02:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Tony, you truly are delusional if you feel you're in a position to criticize anyone else's forum behavior.
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Report this Post03-27-2020 03:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MadMark:

Instead of challenging my ideas and refuting them you just attack what I say.


Mark, don't you see the irony? When I posted an example of your own lack of "logic" which was part of what was used by you to try and shoot down MJ for his supposed lack of "logic"... you completely sidestepped my question about it. Instead, you simply accused me of an "attack".

Look, I'm being straight with you. I'm am not picking on you in this (or any other) thread. But, you are posting a lot, and sure, I don't agree with all of it. It's nothing personal.
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randye
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Report this Post03-27-2020 06:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageClick Here to Email randyeSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:
I never used a ventilator.



 
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:

Thinking about it I believe I am wrong. Four times a day I had breathing treatments. The same oxygen which was fed by tube to my nose (2 psi) also was hooked to a machine which gave me the treatments.



Unless your were intubated, which means that you had a plastic endotracheal tube inserted through your nose or mouth into your trachea, or had a tracheostomy procedure, (an incision through your throat, below your larynx to insert a tube), you were NOT on a ventilator.

I personally find all the complaining about the number of medical ventilators somewhat ridiculous.

You have to be trained to intubate a patient. It involves the use of an instrument called an laryngoscope and it is somewhat difficult to perform. A patient can be seriously injured by someone that doesn't know what they are doing.



I was trained to intubate patients years ago and performed the procedure a few dozen times on a dummy and then had to do it a couple of times on a real patient while I was very closely supervised by a doctor.

It was still difficult.

We haven't even gotten to the damn ventilator yet which is also a very complex piece of equipment and requires trained medical personnel to set it up for each individual patient and to monitor and adjust as required.

Simply put, the number of ventilators that are being discussed by politicians far outstrips the number of trained medical people in this country to operate them.

Even if every anesthesiologist, RT, and paramedic in the nation were used it still wouldn't be a dent in the number of trained people needed for the number of vents being discussed.

OH, and did I mention the number of disposable endotracheal tubes and connection tubes needed for EACH patient?

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 03-27-2020).]

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Report this Post03-27-2020 07:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwClick Here to Email cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by randye:
Cliff, Don't be fooled by LEFTIST BULLSHIT involving a hack like Cuomo.

While that moron is screaming for MORE, MORE, MORE and trying to blame President Trump.....Florida is NOT screaming for more and that includes ventilators or military hospital ships like NY is.

WHY do you think that is?


Heh, Cuomo admitted that all the ventilators he has gotten from the President are in storage, until they are needed.
I suppose that storage facility is next to the one which keeps toilet paper.

 
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:
Thinking about it I believe I am wrong.


 
quote
Originally posted by randye:
... you were NOT on a ventilator.


Heh, when your wrong, your wrong. When I am wrong, I am wrong twice, .

 
quote
Originally posted by randye:
Simply put, the number of ventilators that are being discussed by politicians far outstrips the number of trained medical people in this country to operate them.

Even if every anesthesiologist, RT, and paramedic in the nation were used it still wouldn't be a dent in the number of trained people needed for the number of vents being discussed.


My friend that I have known since the fifth grade was a long time respiratory therapist. He went on to do other things. He got a letter from Cuomo (office) asking that he come to New York to work.
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Report this Post03-27-2020 09:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Anyone that has ever had a ventilator tube down their throat will never forget it. I woke up from a 4-5 hr cardiac surgery with one and it was really the only time in my Iife I thought I was going to suffocate. Truly thought something was terribly wrong and I was drowning. Of course, you can't talk, and I was finally able to make signals with my hands for Jane to give me a pen and paper so I could write. "I can breathe..get this damn thing out of my throat!!"
Not a pleasant experience.

Related..
I don't know how this is going to work out, but here tis...
(note, this one is to use on non-critical patients so the bigger better and existing ones will be freed up for the more critical patients)

https://news.rice.edu/2020/...tric-technologies-2/
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Report this Post03-27-2020 09:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsClick Here to Email blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

It's nothing personal.



Just being honest, I think your frog/toad is ugly.

Rams
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Report this Post03-27-2020 10:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by blackrams:

Just being honest, I think your frog/toad is ugly.


Just for that, you get to see the original image... shot in August of 2006 out in the middle of nowhere. Good times.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 03-27-2020).]

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Report this Post03-27-2020 11:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsClick Here to Email blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

Just for that, you get to see the original image... shot in August of 2006 out in the middle of nowhere. Good times.





That pic definitely didn't help my opinion improve.

Rams
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Report this Post03-27-2020 11:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Aw, come on... look at those cute little fingers... or toes... or whatever the heck they are.
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Report this Post03-27-2020 11:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageClick Here to Email randyeSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:


Related..
I don't know how this is going to work out, but here tis...
(note, this one is to use on non-critical patients so the bigger better and existing ones will be freed up for the more critical patients)

https://news.rice.edu/2020/...tric-technologies-2/



There actually is a low tech, low cost, way to ventilate patients. We call it a "Blue Bag"

In reality it isn't a bag now but more of a small blue urethane flexible "football"



Apart from the endotracheal tube, they cost anywhere from $15 to $30 each.

The face mask can be detached from the "blue bag" and the bag cam be connected to an endotracheal tube.

The problem is somebody has to manually squeeze the bag at the proper force and at the proper intervals. It takes a lot less training than intubating a patient but it does work if you have somebody to squeeze it..... for a week or so....

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 03-27-2020).]

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Report this Post03-27-2020 11:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Amid a critical shortage, pandemic ventilator inventor makes his design open source

 
quote

Strupat said while his $500 design may not offer the same standard of care as the current $25,000 designs used at hospitals, his machine would save lives, even in a blackout.

"It will run three to four hours before the batteries die," he said. "If I had my choice, I'd rather be on that than nothing if it came down to it."




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Report this Post03-28-2020 12:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Randye said
 
quote
The problem is somebody has to manually squeeze the bag at the proper force and at the proper intervals. It takes a lot less training than intubating a patient but it does work if you have somebody to squeeze it..... for a week or so....

Yep, the Rice U article said the same thing in 2nd paragraph.. your hand would get awful tired pretty quickly I suspect.

 
quote
That now-alumni team of Madison Nasteff, Carolina De Santiago, Aravind Sundaramraj, Natalie Dickman, Tim Nonet and Karen Vasquez Ruiz, calling themselves Take a Breather, designed and built a programmable device able to squeeze a bag valve mask. These masks are typically carried by emergency medical personnel to help get air into the lungs of people having difficulty breathing on their own. But the masks are difficult to squeeze by hand for more than a few minutes at a time.
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Report this Post03-28-2020 02:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

maryjane

65380 posts
Member since Apr 2001
New York snapshot......... But, note this chart was valid only as of 4 days ago....Mar 24.



https://www.businessinsider...-by-age-chart-2020-3

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 03-28-2020).]

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Report this Post03-28-2020 03:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:


Amid a critical shortage, pandemic ventilator inventor makes his design open source




""How scary is that? Most of those come from the U.S. because they look at healthcare a little differently than us."

I have to ask, how is healthcare viewed in Canada? What is different?
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Report this Post03-28-2020 04:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Hudini:

"How scary is that? Most of those come from the U.S. because they look at healthcare a little differently than us."

I have to ask, how is healthcare viewed in Canada? What is different?



That quote makes a little more sense if the two preceding paragraphs are included for context. However, I admit to being a bit confused myself by that particular comment. I guess what was meant was that the Canadian public generally wouldn't consider the option of supplying their own ventilator if hospitalized. I don't know what the common feeling would be down there in this regard, but as stated in the article, it was mostly Americans (over 65 who would not be allowed to be ventilated) who were asking for more information.

 
quote

Canadian Medical Association President Dr. Sandy Buchman has already told the nation's doctors to prepare for the possibility that, if Canada found itself in as dire a situation as Italy, many people over 65 would not be allowed to be ventilated.

Dozens of people who fall into that category also have written to Strupat, asking whether they can have his design to build their own ventilator, or in some cases buy his prototype outright so they can bring it to hospital in case they get infected.

"How scary is that? Most of those (asking for information) come from the U.S. because they look at healthcare a little differently than us."


[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 03-28-2020).]

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Report this Post03-28-2020 06:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsClick Here to Email blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This is how I see these folks.

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 03-28-2020).]

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