I want to go on record that I am whole heartedly for the eradication of any and all taliban factions. Atomize their bodies with a hail of fire. Let them be crushed beneath the concrete that ground our citizens on 9/11. Let their families cry. They declared war on us. We should not be so coy as to allow them to sit at the table that my son sits at. Our way of life has forever been disrupted due to the actions of a militant group.
Did I make myself clear?
Fitting... Page ownership!
[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 06-03-2014).]
From talking to people, I get the feeling most want him to be the enemy...
Don't confuse want with suspicion. From reading various reports, I get the feeling he's a deserter at best and a traitor at worst. For troops who served with him to say he's a deserter is a damning accusation. Troops watch each others' back. If they didn't think he was really a deserter, they'd be overjoyed at his return.
Regardless, he's innocent until proven guilty, but I do believe there's enough question around his disappearance to warrant a military trial. He should be investigated and tried under the UCMJ and whatever the facts bear out should be made known. I don't think that will happen, though because it would look bad for the president to trade 5 high value Taliban prisoners for a Taliban sympathizer deserter. The administration needs him to be a hero to make the trade look good.
From talking to people, I get the feeling most want him to be the enemy...
No. I want him to be a good soldier that was captured while performing his duty. That is not who he is no matter how much I wanted him to be that soldier.
It is not clear whether he tried to join the enemy or not. At best he deserted and due to his actions, good soldiers were killed. If he did join the enemy, even briefly, he deserves to be punished as a traitor. If he did not, he still deserves a dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay, jail time and reduction to E1. That is the least that should be done to punish him for the soldiers we lost as a result of his actions.
I am inclined to believe the ground troops he served with on this one. They have a better idea of what was actually going on at the time.
Someone mentioned to me that this might just be a "diversion tactic" by Obama, to get people minds off greater things he's messed up (like VA Hospitals, and a whole host of other issues since he's been in office).
President Obama's claim Tuesday that the U.S. would "be keeping eyes" on five hardened Taliban leaders traded for Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl's freedom was immediately challenged by a Middle East official quoted as saying they'd actually be allowed to move freely -- and even "go back to Afghanistan if they want to."
The source, identified as a senior Gulf official, reportedly told Reuters that the five Taliban members would not be treated like prisoners while staying in Qatar, where they were released. Rather, they'd be allowed to "move around freely" in the country and then be allowed to travel outside Qatar after one year.
The official, seemingly contrary to Obama's claims, also said U.S. officials would not be involved in monitoring their movements.
Sounds like the same tracking competence as used in Fast & Furious.
[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 06-04-2014).]
Innocent 'til proven guilty doesn't apply in some cases it seems.
Yep. Don't believe what his fellow soldiers (did I just call this guy a soldier?) have to say. Only the anointed one.
Fine, innocent to proven guilty. But when the stats begin to show guilt, his innocence is in question. I have never been in the "my baby is a good boy" boat.
I think it is likely that the reason that Bowe Bergdahl received promotions and continued to receive his salary and benefits while he was in Taliban captivity is because of DoD Standard Operating Procedure. "Regulations". The Fort Hood shooter continued to receive his salary all the time between his arrest and finally, his conviction by a court martial. Of course, he wasn't free to spend it.
I guess we can all find things like that, most pick and choose what to show outrage over....Can't remember many on here being outraged over these..... http://www.theguardian.com/...lvin-gibbs-convicted
Originally posted by newf: You know what you're right he did say "if" and I missed it. My apologies to Cliffw.
Don't know enough about it to call it "good" or "bad". I doubt many do.
Yup. I learned quite a bit more today.
Some very interesting stuff and the basis for a lot of the rumors. It sure don't clear him, but it don't convict him, either.
The coolest thing I read was, that no matter what, Obama loses. Trade, no trade, even the investigation.
If the investigation shows Sgt. Bergdahl is a traitor, it's Obamas fault. If it shows nothing, he's covering-up.
I even heard someone put fourth the notion that a "Presidential" prisoner trade for a traitor makes the President a traitor as well.
Sgt. Bergdahl may very well have deserted. It is not uncommon.
American Civil War - Around 70,000 U.S. Troops Deserted World War I - Numbers Unavailable World War II - 30,000 U.S. Troops Deserted Vietnam - 50,000 U.S. Troops Deserted Iraq - 40,000 U.S. Troops Deserted
I guess we can all find things like that, ... [drivel deleted]
Of course we can. I didn't think a comprehensive list of every possible example was necessary. More to the point, there are a lot of situations that are worthy of outrage that people never hear of. It's difficult to care about something you've never heard of.
If the investigation shows Sgt. Bergdahl is a traitor, it's Obamas fault.
Did you hear that from a Democrat who really wants to imagine a Republican said it? That's one of the more idiotic ideas I've heard in a long time, and given the posts on here, that's saying a lot. If Bergdahl is a traitor, it's Bergdahl's fault.
Three separate accounts of Bergdahl. They are consistent with each other and paint a very clear picture of the deserter/enemy collaborator.
...
Some folks cannot see things. Some will never believe truths, and will constantly defend BS. I am actually dealing with some obscene realities that another just cannot see. Trying to make ice cream with water over here.
Three separate accounts of Bergdahl. They are consistent with each other and paint a very clear picture of the deserter/enemy collaborator.
I agree that these seem like damning accounts but we don't have his side of the story. It may be that Begdahl did wrong but at this point it's mostly heresay.
I'd rather wait and see what more comes out before forming an opinion.
I agree that these seem like damning accounts but we don't have his side of the story. It may be that Begdahl did wrong but at this point it's mostly heresay.
I'd rather wait and see what more comes out before forming an opinion.
You throw up smileys, and damn near ejaculate every chance you get when it comes to "your side" being right. Then you come out all calm and poised when "it may be"?
How can you tell if a liberal is in the room? Just follow the snail trail.
Don't know enough about it to call it "good" or "bad". I doubt many do.
As with most any news we dont know it all. I dont know alot about it, however I would be highly hesitant to let these people go. Its irrelevant to that decision what the US military man did or didnt do. We now negotiate with terrorists.
Mullah Mohammad Fazl (Taliban army chief of staff): Fazl is “wanted by the UN for possible war crimes including the murder of thousands of Shiites.” Fazl “was associated with terrorist groups currently opposing U.S. and Coalition forces including al Qaeda, Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU), Hezb-e-Islami Gulbuddin (HIG), and an Anti-Coalition Militia group known as Harakat-i-Inqilab-i-Islami.” In addition to being one of the Taliban’s most experienced military commanders, Fazl worked closely with a top al Qaeda commander named Abdul Hadi al Iraqi, who headed al Qaeda’s main fighting unit in Afghanistan prior to 9/11 and is currently detained at Guantanamo.
Mullah Norullah Noori (senior Taliban military commander): Like Fazl, Noori is “wanted by the United Nations (UN) for possible war crimes including the murder of thousands of Shiite Muslims.” Beginning in the mid-1990s, Noori “fought alongside al Qaeda as a Taliban military general, against the Northern alliance.” He continued to work closely with al Qaeda in the years that followed.
Abdul Haq Wasiq (Taliban deputy minister of intelligence): Wasiq arranged for al Qaeda members to provide crucial intelligence training prior to 9/11. The training was headed by Hamza Zubayr, an al Qaeda instructor who was killed during the same September 2002 raid that netted Ramzi Binalshibh, the point man for the 9/11 operation. Wasiq “was central to the Taliban's efforts to form alliances with other Islamic fundamentalist groups to fight alongside the Taliban against U.S. and Coalition forces after the 11 September 2001 attacks,” according to a leaked JTF-GTMO threat assessment.
Khairullah Khairkhwa (Taliban governor of the Herat province and former interior minister): Khairkhwa was the governor of Afghanistan’s westernmost province prior to 9/11. In that capacity, he executed sensitive missions for Mullah Omar, including helping to broker a secret deal with the Iranians. For much of the pre-9/11 period, Iran and the Taliban were bitter foes. But a Taliban delegation that included Kharikhwa helped secure Iran’s support for the Taliban’s efforts against the American-led coalition in late 2001. JTF-GTMO found that Khairkhwa was likely a major drug trafficker and deeply in bed with al Qaeda. He allegedly oversaw one of Osama bin Laden’s training facilities in Herat.
Mohammed Nabi (senior Taliban figure and security official): Nabi “was a senior Taliban official who served in multiple leadership roles.” Nabi “had strong operational ties to Anti-Coalition Militia (ACM) groups including al Qaeda, the Taliban, the Haqqani Network, and the Hezb-e-Islami Gulbuddin (HIG), some of whom remain active in ACM activities.” Intelligence cited in the JTF-GTMO files indicates that Nabi held weekly meetings with al Qaeda operatives to coordinate attacks against U.S.-led forces.
I heard that they can bring a house down. Their concerts are explosive. They cannot only rock the house, but their house is a rock. They are currently blowing up the charts.
As with most any news we dont know it all. I dont know alot about it, however I would be highly hesitant to let these people go. Its irrelevant to that decision what the US military man did or didnt do. We now negotiate with terrorists.
Mullah Mohammad Fazl (Taliban army chief of staff): Fazl is “wanted by the UN for possible war crimes including the murder of thousands of Shiites.” Fazl “was associated with terrorist groups currently opposing U.S. and Coalition forces including al Qaeda, Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU), Hezb-e-Islami Gulbuddin (HIG), and an Anti-Coalition Militia group known as Harakat-i-Inqilab-i-Islami.” In addition to being one of the Taliban’s most experienced military commanders, Fazl worked closely with a top al Qaeda commander named Abdul Hadi al Iraqi, who headed al Qaeda’s main fighting unit in Afghanistan prior to 9/11 and is currently detained at Guantanamo.
Mullah Norullah Noori (senior Taliban military commander): Like Fazl, Noori is “wanted by the United Nations (UN) for possible war crimes including the murder of thousands of Shiite Muslims.” Beginning in the mid-1990s, Noori “fought alongside al Qaeda as a Taliban military general, against the Northern alliance.” He continued to work closely with al Qaeda in the years that followed.
Abdul Haq Wasiq (Taliban deputy minister of intelligence): Wasiq arranged for al Qaeda members to provide crucial intelligence training prior to 9/11. The training was headed by Hamza Zubayr, an al Qaeda instructor who was killed during the same September 2002 raid that netted Ramzi Binalshibh, the point man for the 9/11 operation. Wasiq “was central to the Taliban's efforts to form alliances with other Islamic fundamentalist groups to fight alongside the Taliban against U.S. and Coalition forces after the 11 September 2001 attacks,” according to a leaked JTF-GTMO threat assessment.
Khairullah Khairkhwa (Taliban governor of the Herat province and former interior minister): Khairkhwa was the governor of Afghanistan’s westernmost province prior to 9/11. In that capacity, he executed sensitive missions for Mullah Omar, including helping to broker a secret deal with the Iranians. For much of the pre-9/11 period, Iran and the Taliban were bitter foes. But a Taliban delegation that included Kharikhwa helped secure Iran’s support for the Taliban’s efforts against the American-led coalition in late 2001. JTF-GTMO found that Khairkhwa was likely a major drug trafficker and deeply in bed with al Qaeda. He allegedly oversaw one of Osama bin Laden’s training facilities in Herat.
Mohammed Nabi (senior Taliban figure and security official): Nabi “was a senior Taliban official who served in multiple leadership roles.” Nabi “had strong operational ties to Anti-Coalition Militia (ACM) groups including al Qaeda, the Taliban, the Haqqani Network, and the Hezb-e-Islami Gulbuddin (HIG), some of whom remain active in ACM activities.” Intelligence cited in the JTF-GTMO files indicates that Nabi held weekly meetings with al Qaeda operatives to coordinate attacks against U.S.-led forces.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, what would have done with them? Might be bettter to have them "over there" and indiscriminately kill them with a drone strike rather than have to house them and feed them.
You throw up smileys, and damn near ejaculate every chance you get when it comes to "your side" being right. Then you come out all calm and poised when "it may be"?
Let me know what "my side" is when you have a moment.
I heard that they can bring a house down. Their concerts are explosive. They cannot only rock the house, but their house is a rock. They are currently blowing up the charts.
That was reminiscent of Bob Hope.
I remember one that he did in front of a Navy or Marines who had been deployed to Lebanon, during the Reagan years (I guess).
"I walked by some people having lunch at an outdoor cafe in Beirut. That's odd. When I walked by a few minutes earlier, it was an indoor cafe."
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 06-05-2014).]
Just so I am crystal here, I do not have any hate for the two of you. I do know that I often come across as harsh, and I am not apologizing for my ways. More than once I have been drawn to seeking out more information due to your responses. Will we battle again? Yes, and quite often.
Just so I am crystal here, I do not have any hate for the two of you. I do know that I often come across as harsh, and I am not apologizing for my ways. More than once I have been drawn to seeking out more information due to your responses. Will we battle again? Yes, and quite often.
Enjoy your day kids...
Haha it's all good, I like the ol tête-à-tête on occasion.
